LAS_Bluetec

Mercedes OEM parts have a date stamp on them.

barbilazarow

thank you LAS.

barbilazarow

update: the vehicle is now getting a new motor through our mechanics insurance. he is dealing with the dealership since i won't even walk in there - MB head office has not called me - no one has followed up with me - surprise? so even though the mechanic is taking the hit on this MB still has not reached out to us - the consumer. couldn't pay me enough to get another of their cars.

LaurieForcade

I am having the same issue with an MB dealer in CT. Car was in TWO WEEKS ago for complete tire replacement, plus new brakes (3 year lease) and suddenly without warning engine light goes on, they want 26K for sludge. Engine dead -- WHY?? Will NOT cover under warranty. Two full services met, last service overdue but mysteriously not done when tires/brakes replaced??? Getting a lawyer, but I feel this is a definite scam. Car goes in for service, a few weeks later engine dies NO OIL LIGHT, NO WARNING. Also this car has had: recall due to oil filter defect, which first resulted in car stopping suddenly and fire department spending hours cleaning up all over road to prevent fire.... service department nasty and not even apologetic although it is clear this engine should not be failing under a three year lease!!

Carsy

A classic case of the need to take charge of a cars servicing & not depending on the dealer.

How long was the service overdue ?.

All very unfortunate . I hope all can be worked out for you.

John.

barbilazarow

Laurie -

I look forward to hearing from you I sent you a private message - you are one of many that has had this same situation.

MB is refusing to cover warranty on an obviously faulty engine. It seems I was fortunate to have a private mechanic who used his insurance - MB is doing nothing to help / take care of those who used MB dealerships - wow. And please people - we all have had the servicing done and taken care of these vehicles (my services were NOT overdue) - it is interesting that the story is the same for each one of us. That an engine would fail with no warning and sludge up ..... after major services is incredible and leaves me incredulous!

If any one else has had this issue please reach out to me.

Barbi

Vincecam

I haven't noticed any mention of biofuel and I don't believe it's used in CT or CA but you still might find this article interesting. It seems MB is the only manufacturer that doesn't want to stand behind its engines.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...oreUserAgent=1

MBenz777

Even though I hate this idea (Class Action Lawsuit...where smart *** lawyers make millions) I believe people like barbilazarow and LaurieForcade should try to find other MB owners with the same problem, contact a reputable Law Firm with experience in Class Action Lawsuits and sue MBUSA for a couple of billions (with "B") or at least a few good hundreds of millions so in the future the people from Mercedes will think twice when they will try to screw their customers.

I still believe that Mercedes Benz is one of the best cars on the road, but a bad dealership and this outrageous "customer service" is what make people to say (like barbilazarow) that they will never buy another MB again.

Also I believe that all the people who have/had similar experiences should post here, or better: to open a new thread with similar cases in contemplation of a potential Class Action Lawsuit.

I know is not an easy process but everything should start somewhere, even with a crazy idea like mine.

Just to be clear: I'm not a lawyer, I don't know anybody who may handle such a lawsuit and I really don't like...lawyers...so, I don't have any ulterior motive in my statements above, except for the fact that I want to make sure MB is cleaning up its act and, God forbidden, I'll ever have any problems like this with my car I won't be treated the same way by the dealership or by MBUSA.

P.S. I'll change myself the oil and the filter to my ML350 Bluetec, and I'm going to videotape the whole process, including the odometer, VIN number, close ups with the new oil filter and the oil used.

brian.ashbach

Any updates? Mercedes Benz Financial sold my car at 26.5k miles. at 33k it is sludged. No oil lights/warnings/nothing.
I previously brought car in 2x in past month for issues, now this.

ImInPA

So, are there more than three folks that have had this issue?

DUTCH

Same engine, different MB model, same problem. See here:

http://pointedthree.com/disc/forums/...219019#M219019

u001elg

Just to play Devil's advocate...

The MB Warranty only covers manufacturing defects in parts and workmanship.

What are you proposing is the "manufacturing defect" that is within the means of MB to control that caused the sludge build up in the engine?

I can understand that you are disheartened, but I also am not aware of any defect that would not have been self evident that could cause sludge except improper maintenance. If an oil filter had catastrophically failed from the factory, then that would have been caught during the initial oil and filter service... From that point on I can't see a manufacturing defect that would exhibit these conditions...

Ausmbtech

If you had done no oil changes and had driven for 2 yrs/35k mi in a average way I doubt you would have sludged that engine to the point of seizing. Therefore something has encouraged it to sludge.

How many services and at what mileages and dates were they performed?
What engine oil was listed on the invoice for each service?
Have you needed to topup the coolant AT ALL since you've owned the vehicle?
Do you do drive mainly in stop/go traffic or highways?
What do you estimate the distance you would travel for a average trip?
Have you ever had a warning on the dash to topup OR reduce the oil level?
Have you or do you use BIO diesel?

skromfols

With service performed properly at required intervals I think you have a right to expect your vehicle to operate as intended, whether it has a gas or diesel engine. The driving conditions shouldn't make a difference, because your vehicle is intended to be driven under various conditions.

So far with 30,000 + miles on our 2011 E 350 we've experienced no problems, but if or when we do I expect Mercedes to stand behind their warranty, not look for a way to avoid any responsibility for a design flaw.

u001elg

Again, playing Devil's advocate...

Skromfols, what design flaw, that is within the control of MB materials and workmanship, causes an oil sludge condition so severe that the engine seizes with no indication (i.e. CE light, any low fluid level or low pressure or abnormal temperature). There has to be something more to this story.

N_Jay

detective pressure sensor (or design error),
defective (or marginally defective) design allowing, under some conditions, not totally unexpected, for an excessive amount of sludge to deposit and not be removed by the recommended oil change process and interval. (See Toyota sludge issue)

skromfols

I really wasn't saying that there was a design flaw. What I was questioning is why an engine that was properly lubricated and serviced would sludge up to the point of causing a problem? This is my second Mercedes (we put 130,000 miles on our CLK 500 before selling it) and we've been very pleased with the reliability and performance of both, so I'm certainly not trying to put MB down.

I would think that MB would want to know what caused the problem, and if the vehicle was properly serviced it should cause them concern.

N_Jay

I am fairly new to owning MBs.
(4 years into a 2007 E350 and 1 year into a 2008 GL320)
I was a supplier to MB a while back.

I am very happy with the cars, and was quite impressed with their engineering and attention to detail when I supplied to them.

What I am always surprised with are the reports here and on other MB forum of very poor customer service especially when it comes to what I would call "borderline" warrantee issues.
Given their market position of a quality and technology leader, I would expect them to get out in front of any potential issues by being generous with warrantee and goodwill support. On would think, that it would only be a small hit to their margin to increase warrantee set-asides for these cases and they would get back the value in increased sales and customer satisfaction.

isstay

They can't afford to do this simply because they will be losing money. You know few cases because those owners decide to share their problems, but do you know how many are actually out there w/same problem. Be sure that MB supports their loyal customers and I will give you example: I witness what MB did in one of those same cases in my local dealership:
It was two year old GL320 Bluetec driven for 24000 miles/2 years after the original purchase w/warning message about overdue oil change when the engine finally seized. Owner knows about it but he does not have time to get to the dealer for oil change because he is a busy veterinarian that purchase at least one new MB every other year. Total estimated cost for new engine including labor 24000$, but here is the funny part - MB pays 16000$ of this because he is loyal customer even though they knew why all this happened and that this was owners fault, but if they start doing this for every one then what - they won't be able to make profit.

Ausmbtech

A few issues here, firstly there is no definitive answer to if the vehicle has been properly serviced (what type oil used specifically) so far in this thread. That's why I've asked some very specific questions in my post.
Secondly, driving conditions make a big difference servicing requirements, there is no "one size fits all".
Thirdly, you've implied there is a design flaw with the engine. do you care to elaborate as to what this might be?


I've seen plenty of vehicles overdue for services and/or sludged. There is always a reason and in this case the reason hasn't been identified. I asked specific questions that should help narrow it down. Replacing the engine without determining the cause is a good way to run the risk of it happening again.

Judging by the lack of detail in the owners posts I'm not surprised MB knocked back a good will or warranty claim. You need to have a pretty good case to get a engine replaced under good will or warranty.

Carsy

The Vet needs to allocate his time better . He is a slack **** for letting good machinery fail for want of routine maintenance. MB should have their head read for honouring part of the warranty. There are a lot more deserving clients out there with problems that do not have help from MB rather than a highly paid professional.

There must be another factor here causing the engine to fail after 24,000 miles without a service. Maybe the oil level was allowed to go too low.

Very strange that no one answers Ausmbtechs questions .

JC

isstay

It was not the oil level, it was the oil by itself. After going through all those miles and doing what supposed to do it turn into thick gel and got low but not enough to be the main reason for engine problem, no CEL or warning of any type because the oil sensor was coated with it (by the way BMW had same problem few years ago right after they say that car maintenance intervals should be extended for up to two years and 20000 miles. After so many problems and engines replaced they changed the policy.)

There is no biodiesel involved in the case I cited and I know this for sure because the only stations around that offer it, are the ones serving the government fleet, just neglect.

In my opinion all this can be result of oil formulation and quality. As every one knows in USA synthetic oil is not full synthetic like in EU, it is hydrocracked mineral stock and maybe this has something to do with the problem. Other thing to consider is that the dealerships are using bulk oil, not bottled, and even with same specs they are not same and I will give you example why:

Friend of mine works in truck repair shop that has bottled and bulk Mobil1 5W-30. He changes his oil every 6000 miles and he does it by himself, but he says that if he uses bottled oil car runs until next oil change w/o need for oil to be added. Not same case if he uses bulk oil - he has to add a quart between oil changes, even though he puts same oil according to Mobil.


At the end those engines are designed to use synthetic oil and they are designed in EU where the oil formulation is different, although all oil meets MB requirements. I do not know if MB test the oil that needs to be certified on cars or in lab, but those are definitely two different things and they will produce totally different outcome.


By the way the Vet does not care much because he probably made the money for the engine only from one of his high profile patient - thoroughbred horse.

N_Jay

That is pure "goodwill". Maybe it is the dealer, but some of the stories I read are far from that generous (and a whole lot closer to warrantee issues).
I know my boss moved his whole family (Probably 8 cars or so) off MB to Lexus because of the way he was treated on something that he felt should have been a warrantee issue.
That is over a car a year, all from the same dealership.

isstay

Maybe it is the dealer like you said. Maybe they had extra money they have to spend, as you some of you may know MB has money pool that is distributed through all authorized dealers and used for warranty work. But they don't just give them the money, they want all warranty work to be done in compliance with their standards and by certified tech, plus all parts go back to MB if been replaced under warranty in order to be covered by MB. One step aside and the dealer may end up paying for all the repairs even on brand new car.


Maybe is up to the service and dealership managers and how they present the case. For example: my car is 8 years old and they are still working on A/C issue I have under warranty, only components that are not been replaced are the evaporator core and the condenser and it is unknown if is going to work (it is cold now to test it), but I always give them 100% on all surveys I get from MB (do not get me wrong - the amount of money they get from MB depends on this and dealers see the surveys we filled) and I show my gratitude to the service manager and the tech that works on my car(always the same) every Christmas. It is not that easy - you rate them poor on a survey and hurts their score and finances, but they know who did it and next time you go and ask for help you won't get it and you will pay max amount for service (for example I paid 86$ after tax, brake fluid and shop supply added for brake flush few months ago, but this includes 20% SM discount). It probably boils down to how well dealership maintains those money, but again if MB does not authorize the work that is been claimed as warranty or goodwill nothing can be done.


Car makers don't make money from sales, biggest profit is from service and parts and if you have your car serviced some where else just to save money and something happened why they should be responsible for fix in it. If you manufacturing, selling, warranting and servicing something would you like if it comes back to you for warranty work after it is been maintained in unauthorized service, probably not, I wouldn't.

fixbenz

what was the outcome from the lady who originally started this thread?
you would've had a better foot to stand on if you had the dealer regularly maintain the vehicle.... even just a simple oil change ony.. by taking it to an indy he may not have used the right oil, may not have changed the filter, you may have had used biofuel and not known it which may have caused the oil to sludge. there is 3 sides to this story..

I've seen a lot of people cut corners and go to indys and quickie places, the chain quickie stores I wouldn't let them touch my lawn mower.

ive seen one customer take care of his gl diesel to the "T".. a timing gear sprocket came apart....we had the heads sent off and machined etc, bottom end was ok. It also proves how durable that engine really is.... the customer got help on the repair. this was at a dealer.