Difference between 5.5L V8 and 4.6L Bi-turbo V8

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Aug 6, 2015 | 02:04 PM

#26

Twil008

Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2015

Posts: 20

Likes: 1

2012 E550 Coupe

My Land Jet and I, by a Black Top Jedi !!!! :-)

Ladies and Gentlemen ,
I agree that "402 hp", has to be way understated. That's one of the reasons I am currently calling her my, "LandJet", haven't settled on a name yet!
But here's the deal, will save the money over the winter, next summer, ECU turned, Exhaust System Upgrade, possible Transmission Upgrade. Then I will take a pass at the track and post the results here. Oops, I will also, do a track pass before the upgrades and post that as well . Then I think that I will go Hunt, Bimmers, Chevys and a few others of choice, as in Porsche !!!! Right now, basic 0 - 60 is 4.6 secs, that's Corvette Territory !!!! Please correct me if I'm wrong !!!! I Love my "E550 Coupe" !!!!!
One serious question, how the heck do you get the picture to show up under your name here?

Aug 6, 2015 | 05:16 PM

#27

SnakeDoctor

Super Member

Joined: Jul 2010

Posts: 744

Likes: 28

From: Houston, TX

2014 E550 Coupe and 2010 E350 Sedan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twil008

Can't wait!

As far as the picture, that is consider your signature. Go to User CP towards the upper left of your page here. Should be a place to set your signature there.

Aug 6, 2015 | 05:24 PM

#28

PeterUbers

Out Of Control!!

Joined: Jun 2004

Posts: 13,799

Likes: 3,228

2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor

Can't wait!

As far as the picture, that is consider your signature. Go to User CP towards the upper left of your page here. Should be a place to set your signature there.

440-450hp is most likely where the real figure lies... Ultimately the only way to know is a crank horsepower measurement which only probably renntech and weistec probably have done officially

Otherwise we all can only estimate the drivetrain loss and then calculate the brake horsepower based off the wheel horsepower

Aug 7, 2015 | 10:37 AM

#29

txjeep

Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2005

Posts: 35

Likes: 2

I just lost a longer response, but I wanted to chime in a say that I recently bought a 2012 E550 cab. All I can say is WOW, and this is coming from someone with a 2008 Corvette in the garage. I believe the dyno sheets that indicate 440+HP on the bi-turbo. My corvette is rated at 430HP and the Benz is definitely in the same class as far as power goes. That is where the similarities stop, but the bi-turbo V8 is extremely impressive. I feel very fortunate to have found this car. The vette is for sale

Aug 7, 2015 | 11:38 AM

#30

ffr2014

MBWorld Fanatic!

Joined: Sep 2014

Posts: 1,018

Likes: 59

From: Virginia

2012 E550 Coupe, 2013 Escalade ESV, 2013 Lexus GS350, 2003 Honda VFR, 2017 Yamaha Kodiak 700 EPS SE

Quote:

Originally Posted by txjeep

The M278 engine is amazing! My recent dyno reflects these figures accurately:

Wheel HP: 369 HP
Estimated Total HP: 369 x 1.20 = 442.8 HP

Wheel Torque: 445 FT-LBS
Estimated Total Torque: 445 x 1.20 = 534 FT-LBS

After with OE Tuning ECU Stage 1 Tune:

Wheel HP: 430 HP
Estimated Total HP: 430 x 1.20 = 516 HP

Wheel Torque: 555 FT-LBS
Estimated Total Torque: 555 x 1.20 = 666 FT-LBS

WOW x 2!!!!

Attached Thumbnails

Difference between 5.5L V8 and 4.6L Bi-turbo V8-dyno.jpg

Aug 7, 2015 | 05:44 PM

#31

Twil008

Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2015

Posts: 20

Likes: 1

2012 E550 Coupe

Would you be so kind as to explain to me, why you multiply the figures you have by " 1.20 ", to arrive at the final figure for Torque and Horsepower?

Aug 7, 2015 | 06:29 PM

#32

txjeep

Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2005

Posts: 35

Likes: 2

I am not ffr, but I am pretty sure he converting power at the wheels (from the dyno) to power at the crank, which is how OEMs rate their engines. He is assuming drivetrain losses of around 20 percent.

Aug 7, 2015 | 08:09 PM

#33

Twil008

Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2015

Posts: 20

Likes: 1

2012 E550 Coupe

THANKS, for the clarification. I not sure what it may have cost for the ECU Upgrade, RennTech, seems to offer a bit more and the Upgrades by RennTech do not affect any warranty issue. They have a set up pushing out 530 Bhp and 606 lbs/ft at the crank for about $2700. I was thinking of running with that set up and adding on Hi Performance Exhaust system, with Hi Flow Cats, as well as a Throttle body Spacer. So then I ask, the question, what about Pulley Upgrades , any ideas, any information? Please feel free to correct me if I'm off track, I will appreciate your insight !!!!
By the way, since you purchase your Benz, have you noticed any changes with your friends or associates ???? :-)

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Aug 9, 2015 | 12:05 PM

#34

ffr2014

MBWorld Fanatic!

Joined: Sep 2014

Posts: 1,018

Likes: 59

From: Virginia

2012 E550 Coupe, 2013 Escalade ESV, 2013 Lexus GS350, 2003 Honda VFR, 2017 Yamaha Kodiak 700 EPS SE

Quote:

Originally Posted by txjeep

That is correct. Automatic transmission vehicles will typically see about (this is again an estimation only as every vehicle is different) 20% loss in power from the Crank to the Wheel. The actual formula would be Wheel Horsepower / .80 which would actually yield a multiplier (of wheel horsepower) of 1.25 but I used 1.20 to be more conservative (assuming a little more than 20% loss of power from drivetrain).

Aug 15, 2015 | 10:03 PM

#35

Twil008

Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2015

Posts: 20

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2012 E550 Coupe

My Land Jet and I, by a Black Top Jedi !!!! :-)

http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/20...t-drive-review

I had a feeling that there was something weird about not being able to find any out right performance stats for the 2012 E550 Coupe Biturbo !!!! Well here's the reason why, Car and Driver road tested the 2014 E550 Coupe Biturbo, with the 4.6L engine and revealed a startling reality the car is as fast as a 2011 AMG E63, the 0 - 60 time is 4.3 seconds. The 2012 - 2014 E550 Coupe Biturbo 0 - 60 time is 4.3 seconds. !!!!! Check it out !!!! You know me, Please correct me if I'm wrong !!!! ???? !!!!!!
I found a complete Hi Performance Exhaust system, now I just need to find, Throttle Body Spacers and a Pulley Set Up........any ideas ? Cold Air Induction ???? I will take and appreciate all the help I can get.!!!!!!

The link to the Car and Driver road test is listed above. ... performance stats are at the very end, enjoy !!!!

Last edited by Twil008; Aug 15, 2015 at 10:44 PM. Reason: spelling and left out the link

Aug 16, 2015 | 12:30 PM

#36

txjeep

Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2005

Posts: 35

Likes: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twil008

That confirms my thinking that the E550 is in the same class as my 2008 Corvette from a raw power perspective. The difference in the straight line stats are within the margin of error, with the top speed in the qtr mile being the only real difference. E550 is about 130 where the Corvette is about 115. 0-60 is 4.1 for the vette and 4.3 for the E. 1/4 mile is 12.5 for vette and 12.6 for the E. This is based on some MT tests for the vette. Only reason the vette beats it (if it actually does) would be the bigger tires and LSD. The vette really locks up on launch. There is some turbo lag with the E as well. I would be interested to see how they compare from a 20 mph roll. On the track I think the vette would run off and leave the E, but that's no surprise. All told, the E is very impressive to be able to hang with the vette like that.

Aug 17, 2015 | 02:52 PM

#37

retvethogrider

Member

Joined: Apr 2015

Posts: 97

Likes: 2

From: Idaho

2015 E550 Coupe

I have been doing some research hoping to find an accurate hp and torque rating for my 2015 E550C at the flywheel. Like many others, I seriously doubt the figures published by M-B for the E550 (and not sure why that is, except some/all German manufacturers allegedly lowball their engines' performance.)
One member here showed a recent rear wheel dyno of 369hp and 445 torque. There is a site, Guesstimator, where you plug in the dyno results for RW data to get flywheel estimate, as the following:
HP: 441
TRQ: 529 (Note: Guesstimator only gives figures for HP but I plugged in the numbers to
get TRQ, as well.)
I also found a site that suggested using 1.17 for conversion. That gave me the following:
HP: 432
TRQ: 521
Now if I roughly average out the two above results, I get the following:
HP: 445
TRQ: 525
Interestingly, M-B claims for its S550C, with the same engine as in the E550, the following:
HP: 449
TRQ: 516
My conclusion is that the 4.7L E550's HP AND TRQ are very close to the above numbers or are the exact same as the S500. Of note, zeroto60times.com times for late model S550 Coupes is 4-5 to 4.8 seconds and late model E550 coupes and cabs at 4.3 to 4.6 seconds. Considering that the S550 Coupe weighs in at about 4800 lbs vs. the E550 4000 lbs, I have concluded that the two engines in each car are most likely identical in tuning. I also believe the HP and TRQ numbers for the S550 are most likely accurate. M-B is selling that car for around $120K.
My conclusion, to say that the E550's HP and TRQ is the same as the S500 is accurate. Therefore, the E550 has 449 HP and 516 TRQ.

Last edited by retvethogrider; Aug 17, 2015 at 02:54 PM. Reason: Correct grammar.

Aug 17, 2015 | 09:20 PM

#38

PaulE550

Super Member

Joined: Dec 2014

Posts: 842

Likes: 64

From: Northern NJ

2015 E550 Coupe

The E550, CLS550, SL550 and S550 all share the same engine and transmission. However, the hp and tq ratings MB quotes for each is different up until the 2016 models. Now the S and SL are both quoted at 449 hp and 516 tq. I suspect MB tuned the 2016 SL up the S to provide an incentive for existing SL owners to trade up for the additional performance. The other two models, the E and the CLS, still have their same numbers for 2016 from what I've seen. I've driven both a 2015 E and CLS and the CLS does appear to be a bit faster than the E. MB also quotes higher hp and tq numbers for the CLS than the E. So I would expect MB does indeed still de-tune both the E and the CLS relative to the S to distinguish the models performance wise. How much that de-tune really is on both models is, as you've already seen, incredibly hard to verify short of putting all the models on a dyno. It's not like the difference between a AMG and a non-AMG, but definitely noticeable. Obviously, the S is a much better build quality than the E, but you would expect that for the price.

Aug 17, 2015 | 09:48 PM

#39

PJ550CAB

Member

Joined: Dec 2014

Posts: 134

Likes: 6

2014 E550 Cabriolet, 2014 Porsche Cayenne Diesel

Quote:

Originally Posted by retvethogrider

Interestingly, M-B claims for its S550C, with the same engine as in the E550, the following:
HP: 449
TRQ: 516
My conclusion is that the 4.7L E550's HP AND TRQ are very close to the above numbers or are the exact same as the S500. Of note, zeroto60times.com times for late model S550 Coupes is 4-5 to 4.8 seconds and late model E550 coupes and cabs at 4.3 to 4.6 seconds. Considering that the S550 Coupe weighs in at about 4800 lbs vs. the E550 4000 lbs, I have concluded that the two engines in each car are most likely identical in tuning. I also believe the HP and TRQ numbers for the S550 are most likely accurate. M-B is selling that car for around $120K.
My conclusion, to say that the E550's HP and TRQ is the same as the S500 is accurate. Therefore, the E550 has 449 HP and 516 TRQ.

I think your conclusion is correct. It makes no sense to do much of anything to purposely detune the engine in the E. You can always claim it puts out less horsepower and torque than actual if that claim helps make the S more upmarket. Perhaps air intake and exhaust header configurations hamper output in the E, so perhaps that is responsible for lower output. However, why would they spend any money on developing different mapping for the same engine?

At any rate, I don't lose any sleep thinking my engine may "only" have 402 hp and 443 ft-lbs.

Aug 18, 2015 | 02:04 PM

#40

retvethogrider

Member

Joined: Apr 2015

Posts: 97

Likes: 2

From: Idaho

2015 E550 Coupe

The topic of E550 actual HP/TRQ has been a discussion here and other places. I just thought I would do some research and share my findings and conclusions.
Paul suggested that a dyno on an E550 would help. I found one on a 2015 model. Of note, dyno test results can vary, I would surmise from machine to machine and from run to run.
Here is what I found:

Bone Stock: 2015 Mercedes-Benz S550 Biturbo

REAL WORLD this is what a 2015 Mercedes-Benz S550 Biturbo puts down for power..

350 (Wheel HP) x 1.30 = 455 HP at the flywheel.
430 (Wheel TQ) x 1.30 = 559 TQ at the flywheel.

These numbers were taken from a stock car and may vary.

This site uses 1.30 as their multiplier, rear wheel to flywheel/crank. But the important part is the rear wheel numbers.

As I stated, previously, a dyno result had the E550 BT at:
HP: 369
TRQ: 445

I would say both test results are in the same ballpark (or what us systems analysts call, Stadiumeteics). Furthermore, one tuner refers to the 4.7 BT as "550 Twin Turbos."

I am an old data guy. And I, too, lose no sleep on my car's actual HP/TRQ. But, for discussion purposes, there is no doubt in my mind that the tune (and the headers and exhaust are also the same. If not, the tune would also be different) on the S550 and E550 are the
same as quoted for the S550: HP 449, TRQ 516.

Aug 18, 2015 | 03:47 PM

#41

Jeffy

Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2005

Posts: 379

Likes: 4

From: Portland, OR

2014 CLS550 4Matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulE550

Where do you get that MB quotes higher HP numbers for CLS550 over E550? MBusa.com lists them both at the 402hp rating and having owned both CLS550 and E550 I can attest that they feel the same in hp and torque.

Aug 18, 2015 | 05:31 PM

#42

PaulE550

Super Member

Joined: Dec 2014

Posts: 842

Likes: 64

From: Northern NJ

2015 E550 Coupe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffy

Error on my part Jeffy. The E and CLS are quoted as the same. The CLS I test drove had 4matic, so that likely accounted for the slight difference in pick-up from a dead stop to highway speed.

Aug 18, 2015 | 05:33 PM

#43

PaulE550

Super Member

Joined: Dec 2014

Posts: 842

Likes: 64

From: Northern NJ

2015 E550 Coupe

Bottom line, what we drive is still incredibly fast and I have no complaints.

Aug 18, 2015 | 06:14 PM

#44

Jeffy

Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2005

Posts: 379

Likes: 4

From: Portland, OR

2014 CLS550 4Matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulE550

Bottom line, what we drive is still incredibly fast and I have no complaints.

True Dat!

Aug 20, 2015 | 10:43 PM

#45

retvethogrider

Member

Joined: Apr 2015

Posts: 97

Likes: 2

From: Idaho

2015 E550 Coupe

E550, S550

Jeffry, in my last post I provided Dyno at the rear wheels for a 2015 S550 Coupe. I think the test was conducted on 30July15. It's RW numbers were comparable to a 4.7L E550 Dyno.

Jul 21, 2017 | 07:22 PM

#46

MarkieMarkH

Newbie

Joined: Jul 2017

Posts: 1

Likes: 0

2012 E550

I just bought a 2012 E550 with 30K miles on the clock and am also in awe of this car's power. I'm thinking that these really need to be making about 462hp at the crank. Factor in a 20% loss number against that and you're back to the 370 wheel horsepower number from one of the early poster's dyno run. Pretty sure the 20% loss number is for an automatic car with rwd though. The AWD loss number is likely closer to 25%, meaning that you have to have 493hp at the crank. Factor the 25% drivetrain loss against that number and you get back to your 370 wheel horsepower number. Regardless, the 402hp quoted by MBz is way, way off. Most likely so as to not trod on the E63 sales turf.

Keep in mind that most turbocharged engines make well in excess of two horsepower per cubic inch. This engine is 285 cubic inches. If you do the math, you can see the tuning capability here. The various Stage 1 tunes talking about 540hp are well within reason.

Cheers!

Jan 21, 2020 | 07:56 AM

#47

Stephen Hill

Newbie

Joined: Jan 2020

Posts: 1

Likes: 0

E500 2012 c207, 278 4.6 biturbo

Steve

Some confusion here, my car is badged e500, 300 kw however I’m told that’s bs actually 335kw (449hp)
for M278 DE 46 AL? Apparently Understated by Merc marketing, due to new release of 63 at the time? What have I got?

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