W123 v. W124 reliability
12-27-2010, 09:25 AM
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2006 Saab 1955 VW Beetle
W123 v. W124 reliability
Just wanted any thoughts on reliability of a W123 v. the W124? I had an 87 diesel all through college and beyond that I had picked up cheap and kept well maintained. I now drive 120 mile commute daily and really like the classic lines of the W123 any thoughts???
12-27-2010, 01:53 PM
#2
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The w123 is one tough auto,with a diesel.Parts are cheap,easy to fix compared to my w126.
12-27-2010, 07:14 PM
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2006 Saab 1955 VW Beetle
Thanks for your advice, I'm thinking this might be the model I buy, just need to find one that has been taken care of. There is a local dealer who has a fair shape 84 300CD but I'm hesitant to buy without service records or at least a good repair shop checking it out.
12-31-2010, 04:02 PM
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83, 300D Federal
Replacement Rear Window Regulators for a CD are very expensive; close or more than $400 each. If the Window makes a chattering noise or jerks a lot when it goes up and down the Regulator is often the cause.
The reason is there is part of the Regulator that Bends over time.
These cars use a lot of rubber parts so I would inspect:
The Oil and Transmission Cooler Hoses for seepage. (when changing the Oil Cooler hoses it is not uncommon to strip the threads on the Aluminum Oil Cooler Nipples [it happen to me on one of the Nipples] due to corrosion of the Aluminum to the Steel Oil Cooler Hose nut. There is a repair for that but Mechanics will want to sell you a new Oil Cooler or use a good used one.)
The Boots on the Rear Axles for cracks and/or leaks (the CV Joints are filled with Oil)
The Flex Discs on the Drive Shaft
The Motor Mounts (if the Drivers side Motor Mount collapses the one of the Belts has been know to cut through one of the Oil Cooler Hoses and this can result in the loss of an Engine) and the Transmission mount.
The front Suspension pivots on Rubber.
The Upper Control Arm Bushings.
It is hard to see the Lower Control Arm Bushings. If they have not been changed within the last 5 years or so I would believe they are on barrowed time. When mine when bad (I have an 84 300D) it only took 3 days for the inner edge of my front Tires to wear severely.
(If you are doing the replacement your self the Bushing replacement is not hard but it is not safe to use the Coil Spring Compressors commonly used for regular Cars on the Front Springs. The front Springs on a Mercedes Diesel must be at least 3 times stronger than you would expect on even a large Gas Car.
I know because I tried using the regular ones and bent the Threaded Rods on the Spring Compressor. I replaced the Threaded Rods with thicker ones and they still bent.
Finally I made my own Spring Compressor and that worked.
The copy of the Real Spring Compressor you are supposed to use costs around $180; the real on close to $300.)
The reason is there is part of the Regulator that Bends over time.
These cars use a lot of rubber parts so I would inspect:
The Oil and Transmission Cooler Hoses for seepage. (when changing the Oil Cooler hoses it is not uncommon to strip the threads on the Aluminum Oil Cooler Nipples [it happen to me on one of the Nipples] due to corrosion of the Aluminum to the Steel Oil Cooler Hose nut. There is a repair for that but Mechanics will want to sell you a new Oil Cooler or use a good used one.)
The Boots on the Rear Axles for cracks and/or leaks (the CV Joints are filled with Oil)
The Flex Discs on the Drive Shaft
The Motor Mounts (if the Drivers side Motor Mount collapses the one of the Belts has been know to cut through one of the Oil Cooler Hoses and this can result in the loss of an Engine) and the Transmission mount.
The front Suspension pivots on Rubber.
The Upper Control Arm Bushings.
It is hard to see the Lower Control Arm Bushings. If they have not been changed within the last 5 years or so I would believe they are on barrowed time. When mine when bad (I have an 84 300D) it only took 3 days for the inner edge of my front Tires to wear severely.
(If you are doing the replacement your self the Bushing replacement is not hard but it is not safe to use the Coil Spring Compressors commonly used for regular Cars on the Front Springs. The front Springs on a Mercedes Diesel must be at least 3 times stronger than you would expect on even a large Gas Car.
I know because I tried using the regular ones and bent the Threaded Rods on the Spring Compressor. I replaced the Threaded Rods with thicker ones and they still bent.
Finally I made my own Spring Compressor and that worked.
The copy of the Real Spring Compressor you are supposed to use costs around $180; the real on close to $300.)
01-01-2011, 04:27 PM
#5
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You've got to be kidding.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
01-01-2011, 07:35 PM
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83, 300D Federal
You've got to be kidding.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
I think the Mercedes from like 1985 on back should be considered sort of a Hobby Car; you need to have other vehicles to drive when the Mercedes needs fixing.
As far as Clunker goes I have always driven 10-20 year old Cars. As long as you can do your own work on them money wise they have been great money savers.
When something goes wrong with the Mercedes it takes me longer to fix it because it takes longer to gather the Parts, Tools and information together than it does for a US vehicle.
Not a lot of parts for a Diesel Mercedes are available at your local Auto Parts store; if you want a good deal on parts it is eBay or an internet parts seller.
But, I am still glad I bought my 300D Mercedes.
01-02-2011, 10:59 AM
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w108 '67 250S,w123 '77 280ce, w123 '85 300DT, w126 '85 300SDT, W140 '94 S600, w210 '97 E230
yeah you need a jap car for reliability, and the mercs a sort of show room car, displayed at your garage, the mercs are reliable but the fact that its been in service for 20 years plus, then you would expect some repairs along the way, making the costs go over its actual value, but it makes me happy so i keep them still with me,
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04-13-2011, 09:10 PM
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1985 300TD, 1982 300TD, 1992 Ford F-250 + 1968 Avion Travelcader T-28
Hi Mike,
I worked four years for a company called GoTaxi out on the west coast of Canada before moving east this past fall.
My personal car was a 123 (1980 300D) and it was never really up to snuff as a taxi. It was just too beat up. Too much stuff needed to be replaced. Most 123 cars I've seen are in the same shape.
The W124 was far and away the most reliable taxi we had on the road and we hardly did anything to it to begin with, despite the fact that it came with 400,000 miles on the clock. Our '98 came with factory orange peel and broke down regularly. I personally prefer the 123 but for reliability you'll want a 124. Plus a back-up vehicle, of course. First rule of bangernomics -- always have a spare.
I worked four years for a company called GoTaxi out on the west coast of Canada before moving east this past fall.
My personal car was a 123 (1980 300D) and it was never really up to snuff as a taxi. It was just too beat up. Too much stuff needed to be replaced. Most 123 cars I've seen are in the same shape.
The W124 was far and away the most reliable taxi we had on the road and we hardly did anything to it to begin with, despite the fact that it came with 400,000 miles on the clock. Our '98 came with factory orange peel and broke down regularly. I personally prefer the 123 but for reliability you'll want a 124. Plus a back-up vehicle, of course. First rule of bangernomics -- always have a spare.
04-30-2011, 02:36 AM
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2000 E320 2009 E550
Turbodiesel engine in 115 body
You've got to be kidding.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
1968-1976. The OM 617A turbodiesel engine was available in the 123
body. 1977-? Is it possible to put the OM 617 A turbodiesel in the
115 body with the 4 speed manual [or 5 speed manual] transmission. Is there enough room in the engine compartment for all the add ons? Is there anyone with a different opinion-having actually put the OM 617A in a 115 body? Or any other turbodiesel engine in the 115 body? Like the 2.5 turbodiesel engine in the 124 bodies.
07-02-2011, 10:52 AM
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500E -92 and 560SEL -90
The most reliable car I've ever experienced is my parents w123 200 -85 (gasoline) with a 4 speed manual, which they still have in ownership.
The only thing that went wrong with it the first 20 years was a membrane in the carburetor wich made it extremely slow, and the exhaust system needed to be replaced. Also the battery 1 time. The membrane is still the only thing that has ever been replaced in the engine (except oil, filter, spark plugs and such). Last 10 years it's been standing outside the garage due to other cars.. and central locking has given up (though still working when it has rained..?!), starting to rust pretty badly, one head light repeatedly going out and the likes.
But it's still starting 2 millisecs after you turn the key in all weathers.. has NEVER let anyone stranded somewhere.. and have never needed any expensive repairs.
And if you would encounter a "big" repair on such a car.. then it's still hardly no more than what a regular service costs on a new one.
A japanese car from the same year?.. will wear out completely at the same age and miles.. the fundamental mechanical and structural components will be completely worn out.. no ride comfort at all, no crash safety at all and so on. There's a reason, when you look at mobile.de, you don't find japanse cars from the same year with 300.000 miles.. when the same site is flooded with 123's & 124's with far more than that.
I've had a 200 -85 myself many years ago.. though less taken care of than my parents car.. had some minor issues, rusty brake lines and the likes.. but STILL very cheap and troublefree to own. Those mechanical parts do not cost much to replace these days either and it's easy work.
The closest number 2 would be a 250D I had with manual gearbox. Allthough a very slow car I never had any mechanical issues with it during the 2 years I had it. 450.000 km on the odo. Still no clunks in the driveline, suspension or anything. Structure still feeling rigid. Very economical car with great ride comfort.
The newer car I've had the more expensive it has been to own in total cost. I don't think you'll ever get away from that. You don't get yourself a new car for economical reasons. That's just fooling yourself.
The only thing that went wrong with it the first 20 years was a membrane in the carburetor wich made it extremely slow, and the exhaust system needed to be replaced. Also the battery 1 time. The membrane is still the only thing that has ever been replaced in the engine (except oil, filter, spark plugs and such). Last 10 years it's been standing outside the garage due to other cars.. and central locking has given up (though still working when it has rained..?!), starting to rust pretty badly, one head light repeatedly going out and the likes.
But it's still starting 2 millisecs after you turn the key in all weathers.. has NEVER let anyone stranded somewhere.. and have never needed any expensive repairs.
And if you would encounter a "big" repair on such a car.. then it's still hardly no more than what a regular service costs on a new one.
A japanese car from the same year?.. will wear out completely at the same age and miles.. the fundamental mechanical and structural components will be completely worn out.. no ride comfort at all, no crash safety at all and so on. There's a reason, when you look at mobile.de, you don't find japanse cars from the same year with 300.000 miles.. when the same site is flooded with 123's & 124's with far more than that.
I've had a 200 -85 myself many years ago.. though less taken care of than my parents car.. had some minor issues, rusty brake lines and the likes.. but STILL very cheap and troublefree to own. Those mechanical parts do not cost much to replace these days either and it's easy work.
The closest number 2 would be a 250D I had with manual gearbox. Allthough a very slow car I never had any mechanical issues with it during the 2 years I had it. 450.000 km on the odo. Still no clunks in the driveline, suspension or anything. Structure still feeling rigid. Very economical car with great ride comfort.
The newer car I've had the more expensive it has been to own in total cost. I don't think you'll ever get away from that. You don't get yourself a new car for economical reasons. That's just fooling yourself.
07-02-2011, 05:24 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
You've got to be kidding.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
BOTH of these cars are now in "clunker" status.
BOTH of these cars are for the most part easily in line for repairs that will cost more than their resale value.
If you've heard Mercedes last forever, you've heard wrong.
How does the term "reliability" even apply?
Life's about risk and you won't find any insurance (warranty) companies willing to take a risk on these cars and the lottery win you're really looking for is an example previously carefully mantained with lots of recent major replacements. The liklihood of this is so small as to make the difference between 123 or 124 irrelevant. I'd of course avoid "greasecar" conversions, as that's abuse beyond normal wear and tear.
05-07-2014, 11:19 PM
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Mitsubishi Mighty Max
Okay I'm in the same predicament as Mike M. I like both cars, the W123 Diesel (turbo) and the W124 300D Diesel. I test drove the 300D turbo last summer and loved it. Is the W124 300D similar as far as driving goes. Like do they feel the same?
Which would be better for daily driving? On average, I drive about 36 miles a day from monday to tuesday, but the rest i hardly drive.
Of the two which gets the better gas mileage?
Which would be better for daily driving? On average, I drive about 36 miles a day from monday to tuesday, but the rest i hardly drive.
Of the two which gets the better gas mileage?
