Limited Slip Differentials for W124's??
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 344
Likes: 5
From: Los Angeles, CA
w202
I have a 94 w124 Coupe non-ASR with 210mm diff 2.65 ratio.
And also I have a 185mm LSD carrier from a w201 16V.
In order to put the 16V LSD into my w124 i'm looking to source a w124 differential that has 185mm carrier with the closest ratio to 2.65.
Ideal would be 1990-93 non-ASD from a 300D which has the same 2.65 and 185mm diff.
More easy to find is 1990-92 non-ASR from a 300E with 2.87 and 185mm diff.
Questions:
1. if i get the 2.87 ratio, will my ABS freak out?
2. either way, when going from 210mm diff to 185mm, i will have to get the matching half-shafts (axles), right?
3. Just making sure, but a 185mm diff should mount in place of a 210diff with no problems, right?
And also I have a 185mm LSD carrier from a w201 16V.
In order to put the 16V LSD into my w124 i'm looking to source a w124 differential that has 185mm carrier with the closest ratio to 2.65.
Ideal would be 1990-93 non-ASD from a 300D which has the same 2.65 and 185mm diff.
More easy to find is 1990-92 non-ASR from a 300E with 2.87 and 185mm diff.
Questions:
1. if i get the 2.87 ratio, will my ABS freak out?
2. either way, when going from 210mm diff to 185mm, i will have to get the matching half-shafts (axles), right?
3. Just making sure, but a 185mm diff should mount in place of a 210diff with no problems, right?
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
Fred, why are you downgrading to a smaller diff? MB wanted the stronger 210mm diff behind all M104 motors. The 16V LSD is smaller and weaker, and the clutches are almost always shot. And it's a ton of labor and $$$ to replace the clutches, and they'll wear out quickly with any aggressive driving.
There's no way I'd mess with the 16V diff. Regardless, the 16v LSD only works with 3.07 and 3.27 ratios, not 2.87 or 2.65 ratios. You would need a 300D ASD diff to get a 185mm limited-slip with 2.65 or 2.87 ratios. And then dump a bunch of money into replacing the clutches. The 16V diff is useless unless you want 3.07 or 3.27 ratios in a 185mm diff.
Just get the Quaife QDF5V, it is 100% bolt-in for your 2.65 diff, has no clutches to wear out, and a lifetime warranty even under competition use. Yeah it costs more up front, but it will be cheaper in the long run, and you don't need to mess with buying or swapping any other parts.
There's no way I'd mess with the 16V diff. Regardless, the 16v LSD only works with 3.07 and 3.27 ratios, not 2.87 or 2.65 ratios. You would need a 300D ASD diff to get a 185mm limited-slip with 2.65 or 2.87 ratios. And then dump a bunch of money into replacing the clutches. The 16V diff is useless unless you want 3.07 or 3.27 ratios in a 185mm diff.
Just get the Quaife QDF5V, it is 100% bolt-in for your 2.65 diff, has no clutches to wear out, and a lifetime warranty even under competition use. Yeah it costs more up front, but it will be cheaper in the long run, and you don't need to mess with buying or swapping any other parts.
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
AMGDave,
Please correct me if im wrong or confirm that what i plan is doable.
I drive a W123 280CE with a 200D diff. (3,96 gear ratio)
I use it on trackdays I desperatly need LSD in my diff.
On peachparts forum I learned that 3 guys have build LSD diff in w123 casing using a W201 2.3 16V diff carrier, and a 5 mm spacer and longer bolts.
Attached you see pictures of the diff i purchased, its suppose to be from 86k miles W201 2.3 16V, with ASD.
Am I ok to start dismantling both diffs W123 200D diff (3,96 gear ratio) and W201 diff with asd ?
both diffs are around 14cm wide. but the w201 carrier seems a little wider, and inside of a w123 diff there seems to be not enough space, and Im affraid that the carrier position will be to much to one side , after we machine out the inside of the w123 diff.
I might be writing nonsense, i have information oveload,
I payed 200 USD for the diff.
Can I use W124 ASD diffs ? they come much cheaper ?
W201 is 185 i guess thats why i had to pay extra for a 16V diff, any compatbile W124 asd diffs i should be looking for ?
the peachparts thread is here :
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...slip-diff.html
Please correct me if im wrong or confirm that what i plan is doable.
I drive a W123 280CE with a 200D diff. (3,96 gear ratio)
I use it on trackdays I desperatly need LSD in my diff.
On peachparts forum I learned that 3 guys have build LSD diff in w123 casing using a W201 2.3 16V diff carrier, and a 5 mm spacer and longer bolts.
Attached you see pictures of the diff i purchased, its suppose to be from 86k miles W201 2.3 16V, with ASD.
Am I ok to start dismantling both diffs W123 200D diff (3,96 gear ratio) and W201 diff with asd ?
both diffs are around 14cm wide. but the w201 carrier seems a little wider, and inside of a w123 diff there seems to be not enough space, and Im affraid that the carrier position will be to much to one side , after we machine out the inside of the w123 diff.
I might be writing nonsense, i have information oveload,
I payed 200 USD for the diff.
Can I use W124 ASD diffs ? they come much cheaper ?
W201 is 185 i guess thats why i had to pay extra for a 16V diff, any compatbile W124 asd diffs i should be looking for ?
the peachparts thread is here :
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...slip-diff.html
First... I know very little about W123 differentials.
So, I'm not sure how much help I will be. If your existing diff gears are 185mm, you should be able to upgrade to LSD. If your stock, open diff is p/n 124-350-69-23 in the EPC, you could get LSD carrier p/n 124-350-91-23 which should be a direct replacement. That would be the easiest and most direct option. If your open diff is not the same part number, hmmm, that could be a problem.Some W201 diffs use even smaller gears, 168mm I believe. Be careful what you buy. The 190E-16 has a 185mm diff with 3.27 gears (at least in USA, I think). You MIGHT be able to use this with a precision spacer (and longer bolts) to fit your 3.9x gearset. Probably would also need to change the shims for backlash and preload as well. This is more work and I don't know where you would get an appropriate spacer. Also, the ring gear is a press-fit on the carrier, if the spacer takes up the friction fit area, you could end up with a possible failure point. I'd be really careful if you attempt this option, using the 190E-16 LSD with spacers.
The W124 ASD diffs have the LSD center section, the 185mm was used behind most diesel motors and M103. I'm not sure about the 4-cyl 124's since we never got those in the USA. Check out the spreadsheet on my website with more information about which carriers fit which ratios.
Sorry I couldn't be more help... I've never done anything with W123 differentials...
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 344
Likes: 5
From: Los Angeles, CA
w202
Fred, why are you downgrading to a smaller diff? MB wanted the stronger 210mm diff behind all M104 motors. The 16V LSD is smaller and weaker, and the clutches are almost always shot. And it's a ton of labor and $$$ to replace the clutches, and they'll wear out quickly with any aggressive driving.
There's no way I'd mess with the 16V diff. Regardless, the 16v LSD only works with 3.07 and 3.27 ratios, not 2.87 or 2.65 ratios. You would need a 300D ASD diff to get a 185mm limited-slip with 2.65 or 2.87 ratios. And then dump a bunch of money into replacing the clutches. The 16V diff is useless unless you want 3.07 or 3.27 ratios in a 185mm diff.
Just get the Quaife QDF5V, it is 100% bolt-in for your 2.65 diff, has no clutches to wear out, and a lifetime warranty even under competition use. Yeah it costs more up front, but it will be cheaper in the long run, and you don't need to mess with buying or swapping any other parts.
There's no way I'd mess with the 16V diff. Regardless, the 16v LSD only works with 3.07 and 3.27 ratios, not 2.87 or 2.65 ratios. You would need a 300D ASD diff to get a 185mm limited-slip with 2.65 or 2.87 ratios. And then dump a bunch of money into replacing the clutches. The 16V diff is useless unless you want 3.07 or 3.27 ratios in a 185mm diff.
Just get the Quaife QDF5V, it is 100% bolt-in for your 2.65 diff, has no clutches to wear out, and a lifetime warranty even under competition use. Yeah it costs more up front, but it will be cheaper in the long run, and you don't need to mess with buying or swapping any other parts.
I don't have the gears of the 16V... i only have the "pumpkin" itself.
If i get a 300D 185mm non-ASD 2.65 diff, can't I just install the ring onto the 16V pumpkin and have it installed in the 185mm diff case?
I an other thread on w202 area, there's a user who tested the 185mm 16V LSD on a regular C43 AMG with stock 4.3 liter engine and the LSD was fine. (he has some burnout videos on youtube).
Only when he upgraded to a 5.5 liter supercharged engine the diff gave up.
Obvious my M104 stock is not even near those power levels so I would not worry about running 185mm diff.
My main question is if a difference from 2.65 to a 2.87 in ratio would throw off the speed sensor and make ABS to not work.
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
I an other thread on w202 area, there's a user who tested the 185mm 16V LSD on a regular C43 AMG with stock 4.3 liter engine and the LSD was fine. (he has some burnout videos on youtube). Only when he upgraded to a 5.5 liter supercharged engine the diff gave up. Obvious my M104 stock is not even near those power levels so I would not worry about running 185mm diff.
You could get the factory 210mm clutch-type LSD, this is also a bolt-in for your stock diff. It's cheaper than the Quaife and would be ok for a stock M104. I really, really, really would not bother with converting to 185mm. You're giving yourself a pile of headaches to save a few hundred bucks, it's not worth it.
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
You can get a new Quaife 210mm LSD for about $1400 delivered, from a dealer with lifetime warranty... there should be a WaveTrac equivalent available in a few months for a bit less than the Quaife...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 3
1990 300ce 24v I6
Mercedes Benz
210 AXLE Applications NEW!
W124 E500/500E,
R129 500SL 1990-92,
W116, W107, W126 with 2.65-3.06 ratio
Part Number: 50.309.150WK
Price: 1,395.00
http://wavetrac.net/application.htm
Is this the correct one Dave?
Looks like I'm screwed with my 3.27 haha.
210 AXLE Applications NEW!
W124 E500/500E,
R129 500SL 1990-92,
W116, W107, W126 with 2.65-3.06 ratio
Part Number: 50.309.150WK
Price: 1,395.00
http://wavetrac.net/application.htm
Is this the correct one Dave?
Looks like I'm screwed with my 3.27 haha.
Last edited by Saijin_Naib; Aug 6, 2014 at 01:25 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
Not sure what the availability is on the new WaveTrac. The first run of 25-30 sold out almost immediately. Someone will need to call Feind MS and inquire on the ETA for the next batch...
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 277
Likes: 3
From: Western Australia
124, 140, 211, 220, 221, 996
AMGDave, I'm thinking about getting an LSD for my car.
It's a 1995 E320 sedan with manual trans and no ASR for the South East Asian market. According to your spreadsheet data, my car should have a 210mm with 2.65 ratio? Is this correct?
It's a 1995 E320 sedan with manual trans and no ASR for the South East Asian market. According to your spreadsheet data, my car should have a 210mm with 2.65 ratio? Is this correct?
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
You can read the numbers stamped into the lower rear side of your diff housing, below the cover, it will have the gear ratio marked on it. This is the BEST way to confirm what gears you have.
I need to update my spreadsheet to indicate the chart is for North American models, and may not apply to other regions... thanks for the reminder!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,494
Likes: 17
From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Doubtful you've been following or have read every post..
Dave has matters in hand on this subject.
"As built' yes....but as Dave stated the BEST way to confirm is to do a visual check of what is installed.
Never know what has been changed over the years in a chassis that is thirty years old....
You put too much emphasis on the VIN and really adds nothing to the subject matter or diagnosis/repair/modification.
Last edited by RBYCC; Aug 25, 2014 at 01:21 PM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 231
Likes: 21
From: Hong Kong
'90 300CE M103 Manual '93 Alfa 164 QV24 '05 Jaguar X350
Yeh, never trust the VIN specs. Look at the number of differential listed and sold in eBay and you will understand. They are very durable stuff, so people change them for better fuel economy or better power. I have been experimenting with what best matches my M103 300CE converted from auto to manual transmission, and having tried 2.87 (too soft but great for long highway trips), then 3.67 (best acceleration but low maximum speed) and am now settled with 3.46.
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
400e
I have one of these limited slip differential available for the V8 W124 put together with instructions from AMGDave using the S350 differential. I had it in my 1992 400E for many months until a tree fell on the car and totalled it. If you are interested in this, contact me and make me an offer. It's in Golden, CO and shipping will not be cheap as it weighs about 100 pounds, but it is ready to bolt in and burn rubber with both rear tires. Complete pumpkin, ready to bolt in. I hope this doesn't violate any forum rules or ruffle anyone's feathers. It does relate directly to this post and I built this diff from the info in this post.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 29
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Anybody know how often you should change the hydraulic fluid? Is it good for life or should it get changed every 2-3 years or 60,000 miles (or whatever)?
And if it should be changed how do you go about doing it?
And if it should be changed how do you go about doing it?
Member
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 127
Likes: 7
1994 e320 coupe
Necro post resurrection.
Anyone yet install a Quaife or Wavtrac with 3.27 gears (i.e. w/a spacer)?
Want to go w/either a 717.430 5-speed manual or a 722.6 5-speed auto in my 94 E320 non-ASR. Thinking of getting a 1990 CE 3.27 210mm rear diff.
Anyone yet install a Quaife or Wavtrac with 3.27 gears (i.e. w/a spacer)?
Want to go w/either a 717.430 5-speed manual or a 722.6 5-speed auto in my 94 E320 non-ASR. Thinking of getting a 1990 CE 3.27 210mm rear diff.
Last edited by teahead; Aug 23, 2018 at 07:56 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 1
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You can build a LSD for a 124, but it's not necessarily easy or cheap, depending on the exact year & model of car you have. Anyway, to clear up some misconceptions:
1) The factory ASD system is a normal clutch-type limited-slip diff, PLUS an extra hydraulic function that activates to provide 100% lock when wheelspin is detected under 19mph. Above 19mph, it's a plain LSD, with approx 35% lock from the clutch pack.
2) Yes, the 190E-16 diff is a normal limited-slip (not ASD, no hydraulics). However it's a 3.27 gear ratio (w/ 185mm gears), which is crazy low for a 124. You could swap this in to a 124, but would need a matching speedo from a 124 with 3.27 gears.
3) The 4Matics have the ASD setup in the rear (LSD plus hydraulics). Yes this can swap over to a standard 124, but without the hydraulic lock function.
4) The limited-slip differential (the carrier, i.e. the part with the clutch pack, that the ring gear bolts to) is different depending on the gear ratio. So you can't take the LSD from a 190E-16 (which has 3.27 gears) and put it into a normal 124 diff with 2.65 or 2.87 gears, the spacing is different, the backlash will never be within spec. You MUST use an LSD unit that matches the proper gearset. The LSD unit from the 3.27 gears also works for 3.07, but only those two ratios.
5) You can buy a brand-new LSD unit from the Mercedes dealer (about $1150 wholesale) and pay a rear-end shop to install it for you. Not cheap, but it's new stuff, with new clutches. If you get a used unit from the salvage yard, it will need several hundred $$$'s worth of rebuilding.
6) Remember that all 124's have 185mm diffs, except the M104 and M119 engined models... those have 210mm diffs. The LSD unit for the 210mm diff is actually cheaper, about $800 wholesale, for the E320/500E/E500 with 2.65 or 2.82 gears.
7) Yes, I know what I'm talking about. No, I'm not insane.
I built a limited-slip diff for my 1987 300D last year, keeping the stock 2.65 gears. It works GREAT.
An Excel spreadsheet with details on the various years, models, ratios, part numbers, etc is posted on my website at this link. If you don't have Excel, a PDF version is here.
Photos of my LSD rebuild & installation are at this link.
1) The factory ASD system is a normal clutch-type limited-slip diff, PLUS an extra hydraulic function that activates to provide 100% lock when wheelspin is detected under 19mph. Above 19mph, it's a plain LSD, with approx 35% lock from the clutch pack.
2) Yes, the 190E-16 diff is a normal limited-slip (not ASD, no hydraulics). However it's a 3.27 gear ratio (w/ 185mm gears), which is crazy low for a 124. You could swap this in to a 124, but would need a matching speedo from a 124 with 3.27 gears.
3) The 4Matics have the ASD setup in the rear (LSD plus hydraulics). Yes this can swap over to a standard 124, but without the hydraulic lock function.
4) The limited-slip differential (the carrier, i.e. the part with the clutch pack, that the ring gear bolts to) is different depending on the gear ratio. So you can't take the LSD from a 190E-16 (which has 3.27 gears) and put it into a normal 124 diff with 2.65 or 2.87 gears, the spacing is different, the backlash will never be within spec. You MUST use an LSD unit that matches the proper gearset. The LSD unit from the 3.27 gears also works for 3.07, but only those two ratios.
5) You can buy a brand-new LSD unit from the Mercedes dealer (about $1150 wholesale) and pay a rear-end shop to install it for you. Not cheap, but it's new stuff, with new clutches. If you get a used unit from the salvage yard, it will need several hundred $$$'s worth of rebuilding.
6) Remember that all 124's have 185mm diffs, except the M104 and M119 engined models... those have 210mm diffs. The LSD unit for the 210mm diff is actually cheaper, about $800 wholesale, for the E320/500E/E500 with 2.65 or 2.82 gears.
7) Yes, I know what I'm talking about. No, I'm not insane.
I built a limited-slip diff for my 1987 300D last year, keeping the stock 2.65 gears. It works GREAT.An Excel spreadsheet with details on the various years, models, ratios, part numbers, etc is posted on my website at this link. If you don't have Excel, a PDF version is here.
Photos of my LSD rebuild & installation are at this link.
