fredtga

I have a 94 w124 Coupe non-ASR with 210mm diff 2.65 ratio.
And also I have a 185mm LSD carrier from a w201 16V.

In order to put the 16V LSD into my w124 i'm looking to source a w124 differential that has 185mm carrier with the closest ratio to 2.65.

Ideal would be 1990-93 non-ASD from a 300D which has the same 2.65 and 185mm diff.
More easy to find is 1990-92 non-ASR from a 300E with 2.87 and 185mm diff.

Questions:
1. if i get the 2.87 ratio, will my ABS freak out?
2. either way, when going from 210mm diff to 185mm, i will have to get the matching half-shafts (axles), right?
3. Just making sure, but a 185mm diff should mount in place of a 210diff with no problems, right?

AMGDave

Fred, why are you downgrading to a smaller diff? MB wanted the stronger 210mm diff behind all M104 motors. The 16V LSD is smaller and weaker, and the clutches are almost always shot. And it's a ton of labor and $$$ to replace the clutches, and they'll wear out quickly with any aggressive driving.

There's no way I'd mess with the 16V diff. Regardless, the 16v LSD only works with 3.07 and 3.27 ratios, not 2.87 or 2.65 ratios. You would need a 300D ASD diff to get a 185mm limited-slip with 2.65 or 2.87 ratios. And then dump a bunch of money into replacing the clutches. The 16V diff is useless unless you want 3.07 or 3.27 ratios in a 185mm diff.

Just get the Quaife QDF5V, it is 100% bolt-in for your 2.65 diff, has no clutches to wear out, and a lifetime warranty even under competition use. Yeah it costs more up front, but it will be cheaper in the long run, and you don't need to mess with buying or swapping any other parts.

AMGDave

Hello,

First... I know very little about W123 differentials. So, I'm not sure how much help I will be. If your existing diff gears are 185mm, you should be able to upgrade to LSD. If your stock, open diff is p/n 124-350-69-23 in the EPC, you could get LSD carrier p/n 124-350-91-23 which should be a direct replacement. That would be the easiest and most direct option. If your open diff is not the same part number, hmmm, that could be a problem.

Some W201 diffs use even smaller gears, 168mm I believe. Be careful what you buy. The 190E-16 has a 185mm diff with 3.27 gears (at least in USA, I think). You MIGHT be able to use this with a precision spacer (and longer bolts) to fit your 3.9x gearset. Probably would also need to change the shims for backlash and preload as well. This is more work and I don't know where you would get an appropriate spacer. Also, the ring gear is a press-fit on the carrier, if the spacer takes up the friction fit area, you could end up with a possible failure point. I'd be really careful if you attempt this option, using the 190E-16 LSD with spacers.

The W124 ASD diffs have the LSD center section, the 185mm was used behind most diesel motors and M103. I'm not sure about the 4-cyl 124's since we never got those in the USA. Check out the spreadsheet on my website with more information about which carriers fit which ratios.

Sorry I couldn't be more help... I've never done anything with W123 differentials...

fredtga

I don't have the gears of the 16V... i only have the "pumpkin" itself.
If i get a 300D 185mm non-ASD 2.65 diff, can't I just install the ring onto the 16V pumpkin and have it installed in the 185mm diff case?

I an other thread on w202 area, there's a user who tested the 185mm 16V LSD on a regular C43 AMG with stock 4.3 liter engine and the LSD was fine. (he has some burnout videos on youtube).
Only when he upgraded to a 5.5 liter supercharged engine the diff gave up.

Obvious my M104 stock is not even near those power levels so I would not worry about running 185mm diff.

My main question is if a difference from 2.65 to a 2.87 in ratio would throw off the speed sensor and make ABS to not work.

AMGDave

No. You cannot use the 16V center section with 2.65 gears, period. It won't work. The 16V LSD only works with 3.07 and 3.27 gears. You would need to get a 300D ASD diff with 2.65 gears and modify that to fit, but the 16V diff is useless for trying to end up with 2.65 limited-slip.


I'm sure it was fine. But just because it worked for someone else doesn't mean it will work for you. There's no way to test the clutch type LSD's without installing them in a car and finding out the hard way. If you have a new diff with new clutches, great. But on a used diff with 100-200kmi, it's 90% guaranteed the clutches are worn out. With the Quaife available to bolt in to your stock diff, it's really not worth screwing with hybrid stuff.


As long as you don't change the pinion out of the housing, it will be fine. Each different gear set uses a different toothed ring on the pinion for the ABS sensor. The 2.87 diff would have the correct toothed ring. The only 2.87 ASD in 185mm is on the 1995 E300 and since ASD was optional, it's not easy to find.

You could get the factory 210mm clutch-type LSD, this is also a bolt-in for your stock diff. It's cheaper than the Quaife and would be ok for a stock M104. I really, really, really would not bother with converting to 185mm. You're giving yourself a pile of headaches to save a few hundred bucks, it's not worth it.

fredtga

ok, i get it.
So, the ring from 16V LSD and a 2.65 ring has different mounting holes onto the pumpkin.

AMGDave

Actually no, the mounting bolt holes are the same. The problem is the ring gear offset is different. That's why MB has different carriers for different gear ratios. The ring gear is moved closer to the pinion on higher numerical ratios. If you tried to put a 16V LSD into a 2.65 diff, the ring gear would hit the face of the pinion gear. Won't work. There are easy, bolt-in options for your 210mm diff, either factory LSD or Quaife...

LEISTUNG1

LIMITED SLIP TO FIT 210MM DIFF IS AVAILABLE 1500 IS THE PRICE LET ME KNOW WHO IS INTERESTED.

AMGDave

You can get a new Quaife 210mm LSD for about $1400 delivered, from a dealer with lifetime warranty... there should be a WaveTrac equivalent available in a few months for a bit less than the Quaife...

Cardude

AMGDave you have a PM!




Cardude,

GSbeto

Any news about this LSD's availability?

Saijin_Naib

Mercedes Benz
210 AXLE Applications NEW!
W124 E500/500E,
R129 500SL 1990-92,
W116, W107, W126 with 2.65-3.06 ratio
Part Number: 50.309.150WK
Price: 1,395.00
http://wavetrac.net/application.htm

Is this the correct one Dave?

Looks like I'm screwed with my 3.27 haha.

GSbeto

UGH! Had to be the most expensive of the bunch. lol.

kenneth_ss

http://feind-motorsports.myshopify.c...0mm-ring-gears

AMGDave

Not sure what the availability is on the new WaveTrac. The first run of 25-30 sold out almost immediately. Someone will need to call Feind MS and inquire on the ETA for the next batch...

schwarz

AMGDave, I'm thinking about getting an LSD for my car.

It's a 1995 E320 sedan with manual trans and no ASR for the South East Asian market. According to your spreadsheet data, my car should have a 210mm with 2.65 ratio? Is this correct?

AMGDave

If your 124.032 is not North America (or Japan) spec, most likely it will have a different rear axle ratio. If you have the 722.3 (four-speed) transmission, it should have 3.06 gears, which will still work ok with the Quaife or WaveTrac. If you have the 722.5 (five-speed) tranny, it should have 3.69 gears, which would require using a factory clutch-type LSD specifically for that gearset.

You can read the numbers stamped into the lower rear side of your diff housing, below the cover, it will have the gear ratio marked on it. This is the BEST way to confirm what gears you have.

I need to update my spreadsheet to indicate the chart is for North American models, and may not apply to other regions... thanks for the reminder!

Plutoe

Although I am way late to the party, the only repeat only best way to confirm as built gear ratios is via the VIN---what is the VIN!!!

RBYCC

You're only seven years late to the discussion...
Doubtful you've been following or have read every post..
Dave has matters in hand on this subject.

"As built' yes....but as Dave stated the BEST way to confirm is to do a visual check of what is installed.
Never know what has been changed over the years in a chassis that is thirty years old....

You put too much emphasis on the VIN and really adds nothing to the subject matter or diagnosis/repair/modification.

QVHK

Yeh, never trust the VIN specs. Look at the number of differential listed and sold in eBay and you will understand. They are very durable stuff, so people change them for better fuel economy or better power. I have been experimenting with what best matches my M103 300CE converted from auto to manual transmission, and having tried 2.87 (too soft but great for long highway trips), then 3.67 (best acceleration but low maximum speed) and am now settled with 3.46.

dernt

I have one of these limited slip differential available for the V8 W124 put together with instructions from AMGDave using the S350 differential. I had it in my 1992 400E for many months until a tree fell on the car and totalled it. If you are interested in this, contact me and make me an offer. It's in Golden, CO and shipping will not be cheap as it weighs about 100 pounds, but it is ready to bolt in and burn rubber with both rear tires. Complete pumpkin, ready to bolt in. I hope this doesn't violate any forum rules or ruffle anyone's feathers. It does relate directly to this post and I built this diff from the info in this post.

London380sl

Anybody know how often you should change the hydraulic fluid? Is it good for life or should it get changed every 2-3 years or 60,000 miles (or whatever)?

And if it should be changed how do you go about doing it?

400ErSQR

I am interested in your LSD diff.

teahead

Necro post resurrection.

Anyone yet install a Quaife or Wavtrac with 3.27 gears (i.e. w/a spacer)?

Want to go w/either a 717.430 5-speed manual or a 722.6 5-speed auto in my 94 E320 non-ASR. Thinking of getting a 1990 CE 3.27 210mm rear diff.