300E performance upgrades
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From: Isla Verde, Puerto Rico
SRT-6
I had a Euro 1976 280 c 5 speed and wanted more power. (what a fun car that was) I got much the same response and after lots of searching decided the only way was to swap engines or spend way more than I had for custom parts. At one time there was a shop in Pennsylvania that sold a turbo M110 that put out 325 hp but it was out of my budget. Lets face it. Not many people hot rod a 300 let alone a 280. You can make it a bit quicker but it will always cost more than other plentiful mod worthy cars. If I still had that 280 I would consider swapping in a turbo supra motor or similar. Much cheaper in the long run even though purists would crucify me daily. If your determined go ahead but your going to be real limited by lack of performance parts and support.
Les
Les
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1990 300ce 24v I6
I wouldn't miss your 300ce Chappy because you have a w208 CLK55 coupe (aka sex on wheels).
Ed, do you know what trans my m104 300ce has? It is not the 5speed so I am assuming it has the same rear diff/gearing as the 722.3, right?
Ed, do you know what trans my m104 300ce has? It is not the 5speed so I am assuming it has the same rear diff/gearing as the 722.3, right?
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From: Hotlanta
AMG
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e400
Saijin..thanks for the ideas, but how do i drop a whole 700 lbs off the car? And the c36 amg engine is just a 2.8L engine stroked and with a 350 diesal crank.
And a stock 2.8L only has 194 hp not 217 =(.
Anyways how fast a car accelerates and how fast it is, is based more on how the engine is set up.
For example::
1993 300E 2.8L -194 hp-3500 lbs- TOP SPEED- 140
2004 Mustang GT- 260 hp-3300 lbs- TOP SPEED- 146
How does that work out if top speed is based on HP?
A Mustang GT is 200 lbs less, and has an extra 66 hp..And ONLY goes 6 MPH faster?
Perhaps because the 300E is set up (tuned) for top speed rather than acceleration. Which is why by getting your engine "stroked" will increase Accel but slow down the top speed. Also changing your gear ratios higher will increase accel but also slow down the cars top speed. 300E gear ratio - 3.07. Mustang GT- 3.73 The higher the ratio the less MPH the car can go per 1k revs, so it slows the car down. But the Acceleration will increase in return for the loss of speed.
So i really want to get my engine "stroked" and take the crankshaft out of the 350 diesal, because that is exactly how the C36 and E36 amg engines were made.
The only problem is, im guessing this will be a bit costly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vrm-ipgWYU
Check that car out. In the video though he really has 285 hp and 380 torque though. 0-200 km/h in 24s compared to the stock 34-36 seconds on a 300E 2.8 24V.
Does 0-60 in just under 6 i believe. That guy really set his car up right. =)
And a stock 2.8L only has 194 hp not 217 =(.
Anyways how fast a car accelerates and how fast it is, is based more on how the engine is set up.
For example::
1993 300E 2.8L -194 hp-3500 lbs- TOP SPEED- 140
2004 Mustang GT- 260 hp-3300 lbs- TOP SPEED- 146
How does that work out if top speed is based on HP?
A Mustang GT is 200 lbs less, and has an extra 66 hp..And ONLY goes 6 MPH faster?
Perhaps because the 300E is set up (tuned) for top speed rather than acceleration. Which is why by getting your engine "stroked" will increase Accel but slow down the top speed. Also changing your gear ratios higher will increase accel but also slow down the cars top speed. 300E gear ratio - 3.07. Mustang GT- 3.73 The higher the ratio the less MPH the car can go per 1k revs, so it slows the car down. But the Acceleration will increase in return for the loss of speed.
So i really want to get my engine "stroked" and take the crankshaft out of the 350 diesal, because that is exactly how the C36 and E36 amg engines were made.
The only problem is, im guessing this will be a bit costly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vrm-ipgWYU
Check that car out. In the video though he really has 285 hp and 380 torque though. 0-200 km/h in 24s compared to the stock 34-36 seconds on a 300E 2.8 24V.
Does 0-60 in just under 6 i believe. That guy really set his car up right. =)
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Don't remember but don't you have the 300CE-24 M104 with the CIS ?
I still think the M103 and M104 CIS cars seemed faster to me then the later M104 HFM cars...
That's comparing them when they were both showroom new...
My E320 Cab doesn't seem to have the low end that my stock 300CE had...
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
One more time...Compression and leak down test..if within spec then smoke test to find any vacuum leaks..trust me you have them !
After that injector cleaner, factory tune, plugs wires, filter, coils if necessary, etc...
My last pull on a Mustang load dyno @ about .5 bar boost gave 262HP and 300 Torque at the rear wheels..
I run low 5 second to 60MPH..
After I get the car back I'll do another set of pulls to see what difference the manual boost controller made along with increasing the boost to about .62 bar.
I'll probably add a simple water/methanol injection system to drop the charge temp of the air.
It's not how much power you make, more how much you can control and get to the ground...
Smoking your tires may look good on You Tube, but you're not moving as fast as you should...
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e400
I have a 93' 300E 2.8L 24V DOHC. My car just broke 100k miles about 4k miles ago..and at about 101k my parents had the full tune up thing done. New belts, spark plugs, spark plug wires, air filter, ETC. All the parts that get worn down over time. I'm sure they checked it for any kinds of leaks, but i will take it in again in a few months just to make sure.
And you have a mustang GT? I was just refering to it because one of my friends has one. I think he's getting the 5.4L upgrade soon, and according to him it will have 430 hp 460 torque, which i can't fully believe. And he thinks its gunna run a 4.5-4.6 with the engine upgrade.
Which i fully dissagree with. To be honest i hate american cars. Esp american muscle. But living in Texas you get used to the Rednecks in there big jacked up american pick up trucks (no we DO NOT ride horses around here).
Surpisingly enough I have been asked atleast 20 times if we ride horses in Texas. I don't know why people think that, i guess its just the image other people have about Texans.
On your mustang you should get bigger injectors and run a .9 bar. I dont know if thats possible but it would probably give you one hell of a lot more power.
And you have a mustang GT? I was just refering to it because one of my friends has one. I think he's getting the 5.4L upgrade soon, and according to him it will have 430 hp 460 torque, which i can't fully believe. And he thinks its gunna run a 4.5-4.6 with the engine upgrade.
Which i fully dissagree with. To be honest i hate american cars. Esp american muscle. But living in Texas you get used to the Rednecks in there big jacked up american pick up trucks (no we DO NOT ride horses around here).
Surpisingly enough I have been asked atleast 20 times if we ride horses in Texas. I don't know why people think that, i guess its just the image other people have about Texans.
On your mustang you should get bigger injectors and run a .9 bar. I dont know if thats possible but it would probably give you one hell of a lot more power.
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Just? Lmfao.
Try stroked, bored about 3mm, and with fully forged internals, more aggressive cams, HFM fuel injection and I'm pretty sure more aggressive fuel delivery. They didn't just swap the crank and call it a day...
Top speed on our car is trans and drag limited. The m104 tachs pretty high in the 4spd auto and with our exceptionally low Coffecient of Drag a higher top speed is fairly easy to reach. Mustang with longer gears would likely reach a higher top speed at the expense of off the line performance.
In my car, about sea level, mostly flat highway, no prevailing winds, I will tach 4k RPM at 80mph. This is a linear curve. So, at 90mph I tach about 4.5k. Therefore, the redline in my car is 7k at which I should be travelling 140mph.
As you can see, their real-world numbers corroborate the model I've created. I think that if we had ample room in the trans (a 5th OD gear) we could probably see about 153 or so, maybe more given sufficient room.
Try stroked, bored about 3mm, and with fully forged internals, more aggressive cams, HFM fuel injection and I'm pretty sure more aggressive fuel delivery. They didn't just swap the crank and call it a day...
Top speed on our car is trans and drag limited. The m104 tachs pretty high in the 4spd auto and with our exceptionally low Coffecient of Drag a higher top speed is fairly easy to reach. Mustang with longer gears would likely reach a higher top speed at the expense of off the line performance.
In my car, about sea level, mostly flat highway, no prevailing winds, I will tach 4k RPM at 80mph. This is a linear curve. So, at 90mph I tach about 4.5k. Therefore, the redline in my car is 7k at which I should be travelling 140mph.
As you can see, their real-world numbers corroborate the model I've created. I think that if we had ample room in the trans (a 5th OD gear) we could probably see about 153 or so, maybe more given sufficient room.
Last edited by Saijin_Naib; Mar 30, 2010 at 11:27 PM.
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Yeah, I've got the early m104 with CIS. 3.07 is my stock gearing?
Silly question, but lets say I swap to the 3.69 final drive. This is a 16% increase in gearing. Now, would this be a linear response in my car? IE, 16% increase in RPM across all speeds as well as 16% decrease in acceleration times?
Granted, this is limited by tires, fuel, etc, but in theory, would this be how this works out? If so, I need the 722.5 or another 5spd auto box because I really don't like the idea of taching 4.6k @ 80mph instead of 4k@ 80mph. I do want to keep some fuel economy.
Silly question, but lets say I swap to the 3.69 final drive. This is a 16% increase in gearing. Now, would this be a linear response in my car? IE, 16% increase in RPM across all speeds as well as 16% decrease in acceleration times?
Granted, this is limited by tires, fuel, etc, but in theory, would this be how this works out? If so, I need the 722.5 or another 5spd auto box because I really don't like the idea of taching 4.6k @ 80mph instead of 4k@ 80mph. I do want to keep some fuel economy.
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1990 300ce 24v I6
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From: Hotlanta
AMG
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Just when I thought some progress was being made!!!
No..I don't have a Mustang GT....
The dyno RWP figures are from my 300CE, yes Mercedes, with a 3.0L M103-12V engine with a period TurboTechnics twin turbo install.
The "Mustang" reference was to the manufacturer "Mustang" of the "load" dyno.
If you intend to make power you should at least know the difference between a "load" and "inertia" dyno.
So does the fact that I have made an I6 Merc go fast give me any cred with you..
"Hate American Cars"...you're not really a "car enthusiast" if you "hate" any make of car...
There have been many great cars produced over the years and most don't have a three pointed star on the hood.
Can I assume your Merc is a "hand me down"
I grew up in the sixties on those horrible American cars...held National Records with a max performance 1964 Hemi superstocker...
First got grease under my fingernails from a flat head Ford..
Admire engineering and performance regardless of its origin.
P.S...You can see the cars I own in my signature...All six are Mercs and four of them with an under a 1000 car production for the year built..
My latest addition is probably one of the quickest cars Mercedes has ever made...Educate yourself and look up "Black Series"
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
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S500
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From: British Columbia, Canada
1987 560SL
"You can lead a ***** to culture, but you can't make her think"
Ed, to give this guy some credit, he is TRYING to be agreeable, and is open to hearing what you have to say now.
Don't be too hard on him
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From: REHOBOTH BEACH DE
88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
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e400
Alright RBYCC..
A few things to say:
Yes i do know what a MB black series is.
I dont care what cars you own, they have nothing to do with my life
A W124 is not tuned fully for performance. If you send more gas to the engine, ofcourse you're going to get more power. And in a W124 you can definately send more gas without having the air/fuel mixture being too rich.
Which what a chip or a custom ECU does is tell the engine that there is really more air in it, therefor sending more gas. More gas = More power.
Saijin Naib:
My car has HFM. I think all of the later models with the M104 DOHC came stock with the HFM. And im pretty sure it doesn't have a "more aggressive" fuel management system than mine does.
And ofc they didnt just stroke it and add a new crank. Those are the "main" upgrades that they did to it. The other things i would have to do are not that expensive.
A few things to say:
Yes i do know what a MB black series is.
I dont care what cars you own, they have nothing to do with my life
A W124 is not tuned fully for performance. If you send more gas to the engine, ofcourse you're going to get more power. And in a W124 you can definately send more gas without having the air/fuel mixture being too rich.
Which what a chip or a custom ECU does is tell the engine that there is really more air in it, therefor sending more gas. More gas = More power.
Saijin Naib:
My car has HFM. I think all of the later models with the M104 DOHC came stock with the HFM. And im pretty sure it doesn't have a "more aggressive" fuel management system than mine does.
And ofc they didnt just stroke it and add a new crank. Those are the "main" upgrades that they did to it. The other things i would have to do are not that expensive.
Thread Starter
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e400
Anyways guys..Im done arguing.
Ill just get it so the car sends more fuel to the engine.
Get my gear ratio just a little bit higher.
Add a few small Perf. upgrades
Drop some weight off the car
And then im done =)
Ill just get it so the car sends more fuel to the engine.
Get my gear ratio just a little bit higher.
Add a few small Perf. upgrades
Drop some weight off the car
And then im done =)
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Alright RBYCC..
Saijin Naib:
My car has HFM. I think all of the later models with the M104 DOHC came stock with the HFM. And im pretty sure it doesn't have a "more aggressive" fuel management system than mine does.
And ofc they didnt just stroke it and add a new crank. Those are the "main" upgrades that they did to it. The other things i would have to do are not that expensive.
Saijin Naib:
My car has HFM. I think all of the later models with the M104 DOHC came stock with the HFM. And im pretty sure it doesn't have a "more aggressive" fuel management system than mine does.
And ofc they didnt just stroke it and add a new crank. Those are the "main" upgrades that they did to it. The other things i would have to do are not that expensive.
Best of luck, post documentation/pics when you do something.
Thread Starter
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e400
Well thanks for wishing me luck lol. I am not quite 16 yet, and i won't be doing anything to it till i get my actual license in a few months. I want to see how it drives, then get some upgrades and then see how it drives.
And it will probably just be stock outside, because bigger rims can slow you down a good bit. How much will 17x7.5 slow me down by??
Im not going to get new rims unless i am very satisfied by the performance, and since all these parts i mentioned apparently don't add a lot of hp if any at all, then i probably won't be satisfied.
Also, any recomendations on how to fix a slow reaction time?? If i put my foot on the floor then it moves pretty well, but if i give it like 3/4 gas it doesnt accelerate any faster than if i gave it 1/4 gas. Off the line its fine, but only when im already moving, the reaction times are slow.
And when i try to speed up i don't want to always have to floor it and give it a nice little downshift if not double-downshift.
These slow reaction times are the whole reason i wanted a new ECU.
And if i get an ECU that sends more gas to the engine, would it add even like 5-10 hp?
And it will probably just be stock outside, because bigger rims can slow you down a good bit. How much will 17x7.5 slow me down by??
Im not going to get new rims unless i am very satisfied by the performance, and since all these parts i mentioned apparently don't add a lot of hp if any at all, then i probably won't be satisfied.
Also, any recomendations on how to fix a slow reaction time?? If i put my foot on the floor then it moves pretty well, but if i give it like 3/4 gas it doesnt accelerate any faster than if i gave it 1/4 gas. Off the line its fine, but only when im already moving, the reaction times are slow.
And when i try to speed up i don't want to always have to floor it and give it a nice little downshift if not double-downshift.
These slow reaction times are the whole reason i wanted a new ECU.
And if i get an ECU that sends more gas to the engine, would it add even like 5-10 hp?
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e400
This could be a dumb question, but you never know till you find out.
Do they make any carbon fiber parts for the W124? I know it wouldn't look good on a white 300E, but how the car looks doesnt matter too much to me.
Any other ideas on how to drop some weight off the car?
On my Harcore street racing days ill take the back seat and spare tire out =)
What about carbon fiber engine parts that may shed a lot of weight?
Carbon fiber for the interior to take place of the wood?? Just for looks
Do they make any carbon fiber parts for the W124? I know it wouldn't look good on a white 300E, but how the car looks doesnt matter too much to me.
Any other ideas on how to drop some weight off the car?
On my Harcore street racing days ill take the back seat and spare tire out =)
What about carbon fiber engine parts that may shed a lot of weight?
Carbon fiber for the interior to take place of the wood?? Just for looks
