AMGDave

The offset is wrong for both of your wheels, but assuming you aren't going to replace them, there is a fix. By "wrong" I mean that the ET should be higher for both, pulling the wheel & tire further inside... the 7.5's should be ET42, the 8.0's should be ET38. That would give max clearance. Anyway, smaller tires will help. 235 is the proper size for the 8.0 wheel. A 215 is good for the 7.5 wheel. You'll need to roll the fender lips front and back for clearance, especially on the fronts. The AMG spacer kit will help with rubbing at the lower side moulding, in the rear of the wheel well opening for the front tires. Rubbing at the top requires the fender rolling (bending) to cure it. Details on how to do that are here:

http://www.meimann.com/docs/mercedes...install_01.pdf

On a side note, why have two different wheel sizes? I like to run the same size all around so I can rotate them and get longer life out of a set of tires. I have 17x8.0 ET38 Carat wheels, with 225/45/17 tires (will get 235/45 next time). After rolling the fender lips and installing the spacer kit, they don't rub up front. I didn't have to do anything in the rear, IIRC.


Good luck,

cap'n jasper

The wheels and tyres were on the car when I bought it.
The fronts wings have already been rolled. I think I'll just put 215s on the front and see what happens. The rub is so slight that I think that'll do it.

PS Dave, Did you really reply to me at 03:40 AM?? I thought I was bad posting it at 02:50!

ksing44

My AMG wheels from Tirerack are16" x 7.5" wide ET 37 and they fit great. I am using the recommended tire size of 205/55/16, but I’m sure 215s will fit and I was planning to get 215s next time. I have read many posts indicating that others are running 17" x 7.5" ET 35 without any problems. The recommended size for a 17" wheel is 215/45/17, if you look at Tirerack, but usually you can fit at least one size larger. I think everything will be fine with the 215s and maybe even 225s. I also think the ET35 is OK, considering that I have seen many posts indicting that others have the same offset on a 7.5" wheel. I bet Luke at Tirerack would know for sure. He really knows these cars and all about fitting the proper size wheels and tires.

I also like having the same size front and rear, so that the tires can be rotated. In addition, I once put snows only on the rear and the small difference in diameter caused the cruise control to malfunction. My car is sensitive to having everything the same from front to rear and side to side. Now I use snow tires at all four wheels. Of course it is possible to get equal diameter tires for different sizes of rims, but the exact dimensions can vary when the tires are mounted. It just seems easier to get the same front and rear.

AMGDave

Time: Well, it was the time zone the server stamped... and nope, it wasn't 3AM here (MST)! :p

Tire size: The tire width must match the wheel width. You adjust the aspect ratio as needed to retain the stock rolling circumference. A 7.0 wheel should have 205, a 7.5 should have 215, and 8.0 should have 235. Look at the sizes MB puts on their cars from the factory and you'll notice those are the sizes they use. The Tire Rack doesn't necessarily spec what you SHOULD have, they spec what they sell that will mostly fit!

Offset: Sure, ET3x will work, but they will cause rubbing, especially if you drive hard or the car is slammed. You want the wheel & tire tucked as far in as possible near the strut for max clearance at the fenders. For that, you want ET42 on a 7.5 wheel, or ET38 on an 8.0 wheel. Lower ET numbers will fit but as you are discovering, smaller than optimal tires are required. I have 225's on my 8.0's now and they are too narrow, meaning the wheel stick out farther than the tire sidewall! This is NOT a good thing! 215's on a 7.5 will help with rubbing but will put your wheels at greater risk of curbing.

I'd more fully roll your front fender lips. In that PDF file, you'll note there are varying stages of rolling. The basic roll just fold the lip vertical. The major roll requires bending the whole folded edge out from the tire! I'm willing to bet your fenders are not fully pulled out like they could be. And I'd stick with 225/45/17 on the front 7.5's, btw, not 215. Also note that different tire mfr's can have different dimensions for the identical tire size... read their specs, and note the measuring rim used to create those specs!


Good luck,

cap'n jasper

I changed the front tyres to 215/45 but they still rub a bit. I guess I'll have to live with it. I'm not buying new wheels!
Back to swaybars....
The rear arrived last week and I fitted it today. I have a ramp in my garage so it was fairly easy. If you don't have a ramp though it would be better to take it to someone who does. The front bar is easy enough with just a trolley jack, the rear needs a ramp.
I'm off for a few days in Cornwall so I'll let you know if there is any handling difference at the end of the week. Cornwall has some great, twisty, fast and empty roads.

cap'n jasper

..

ksing44

Hello cap'n jasper,

That Sportline bar looks pretty beefy compared to the skinny stock bar. I’m surprised, because I really thought I would need the E500 bar to get what looks like a big difference. Maybe I will get the matched set of Sportline bars and forego the “Sportline plus” combination of Limo front and E500 rear. It is nice that the Sportline bars were made specifically for my car, but I liked the idea of getting the biggest OEM possible. I am very interested to hear about the handling improvements in your car. You have springs and shocks like me and now you have the bars, so your experiences should be similar to mine if I get the bars. I remember, however, that you do have the awesome Limo front bar so you are partially "Sprotline Plus". Please let us know about your handling improvements. Is it as flat as pancake in the turns? Are there any negative consequences that you have noticed?

By the way, I have 205s on a 7.5” wheel with ET37, but I have 16” wheels so the profile is 55 and there is no problem with protecting the rims. I’m sure I can fit the 215s and I am planning to get them next time. I am going to get 215/55/16 so the tire will be 0.25” taller in the sidewall height and the tire should more completely fill the gap between the fender and tire. It should make the car look more dropped and give me back most of the original tire sidewall that contributes to comfort in the stock 195/65/15 combination. I also noticed that some of the new E320s have the 215/55/16 combination, so it should be good like the newer cars. The change in the speedometer is minimal so I’m sure that will not be a problem.

Another note, my wheels are the Original AMG monoblocks that were made for our cars and they are 7.5” with ET37, so I think it must be OK for our cars to have the ET37 on a 7.5” wheel. I remember that the stock tire was very very close to the shock and I like the idea of keeping the wheel and tire as close as possible to outer edge of the fender for the widest track possible. This should translate to great cornering power. Of course fitting even more tire under the car would be nice, so if slightly higher ETs give adequate clearance at the shock, I guess it would have been nice to get the higher ET. I just wonder why AMG, one of the best wheels makers for our cars, would use the wrong offset.

I also wanted to add something related to your experiences with the Bilstein Sports. I am starting to think that the Bilstein HD shock may actually be the best shock to combine with the Eibach Pro kit springs. I always hear Sports if you drop and originally I was sorry that I listened to what I have been thinking was the wrong advice when I got the HDs. For one thing, the drop is actually less than an inch, after correcting for the asymmetrical drop in the rear with bigger spring pads in the back, so the whole thing about shorter stroke length is really not a big deal with the Eibachs. In addition, and I think more important to ride quality, is that the HDs actually help to support the car by pushing up to help the springs. I have seen this on friend’s cars that add the HD shocks to stock springs. Their cars actually increases in ride height. This added support for the springs, seems to contribute to the “progressive” part of the spring compression in a car with Eibach progressive springs. My car is really very comfortable during normal driving and yet when pushed hard into corners, the more extreme forces overcome the progressive component of the ride and my car handles like it is on rails. The HD shock has plenty of performance and durability to control the stiffer springs. I have also heard quite a few complaints about loss of ride quality from the Sports, so I am really starting to think that I will not be looking to get the Sports in the future.

cap'n jasper

Don't forget that the stock coupe rear is only 13mm dia. The sportline is 16.5mm.
It won't look much larger than the stock saloon rear of 15mm.
Go on, go for limo front & 500 rear!

AMGDave

For a 16x7.5 wheel, the proper tire size is 215/55/16... I think you'll like them when you get the new tires. On the offsets, the wheels cap'n jasper has aren't "wrong", they just are not the right offset for maximum clearance. Perhaps AMG was thinking like ksing, wanting maximum track width, instead of max clearance. My point was that you can get a 7.5 or 8.0 wheel to fit without rubbing, IF the offsets are correct. The 500E stock wheels will stick way far out & have a wide track, but will rub badly, or require massive fender rolling. Personally, I think max clearance is better for street use!

Anyway, I added the Limo front bar this weekend, in place of my Sportline front. It's noticeably flatter. Now I need the 500E rear to balance things out...

Here's photos:
http://www.meimann.com/images/mercedes/W124_sway_bars/

ksing44

Hello AMGDave and cap’ jasper,
I have to look at the clearance near the shock with these new 7.5” x 16” AMG wheels, with ET37, to see if it is as close as it was when I had the stock wheels on the car. I agree that maximum clearance on BOTH sides is best. I am close to the outside lip of my fender, but I am also pretty sure the 215/55//16 will fit. The 205/55/16 had the same diameter as the stock 195/65/15 and it was the size recommended by Tirerack, so that is why I started with the 205s. I can’t wait to wear out these tires, just so I can go up one size.

I am drooling over the bars on your cars. I see that AMGDave wanted more control than the standard Sportline bars and went for the Limo front. I am curious about how much improvement there was with the Limo bar compared to the Sportline front bar. Please tell me more about the handling improvements with the bars so that I can live vicariously through your experiences. I would also like to hear about the E500 rear bar when AMGDave gets it installed. I sure would like to get the “Sportline Plus” combination and see how flat my car is in the turns. My car is already great, but I think the bars would complete the upgrade. Of course I will also add Sportline bushings in the future. I am not going to replace the bushings, however, until the original rubber is worn.

It really is fun modifying my car and learning about the improvements from each modification. I added the wheels, shocks and springs all at once, so I’m not really sure about how each modification affected the ride. For cost it was the right way to proceed, but it would have been nice to be able to dissect the improvements from each change. I will look forward to getting the bars and then someday getting the bushings.

I sure love this car.

Ken

AMGDave

Ken,

Upgrading to the Sportline bar from stock was a noticeable, but not huge, improvement. Going to the Limo from Sportline is about the same, I'd say - not huge, but you can tell it's flatter. I haven't pushed the car hard enough yet to tell how the smaller rear works, but I'd like to get the 500E rear bar regardless. I also need to do the rear subframe bushings as they aren't in the best shape. Everything up front is new though, and a couple of the rear links are recent.

BTW, on the tire size thing. As wheel size changes the tire size (diameter) can change slightly too. With a 7.0 wheel, the 205/55 is perfect. With a 7.5 wheel, the 205 is a hair small, and 215/55 is better. The difference in diameter *should* be almost unnoticeable as far as speedo error is concered. You can always use a GPS to confirm accuracy after a tire size change. I found that with 205/55 on a 16x7.0, my speedometer was accurate within 1% up to 100mph (didn't test beyond that).

ksing44

I just found an offset calculator in another post by “need2speed”.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...threadid=68727

The calculator can be found at the address below.
http://toy4two.home.mindspring.com/offset.html

I compared:
stock (15”) 6.5” wheel ET44 and AMG (16”) 7.5” wheel ET37
Calculator said:
The clearance from strut housing to the inside of the wheel will be 6mm LESS
The outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 20mm

I compared:
stock (15”) 6.5” wheel ET44 and 7.5” wheel ET41
Calculator said:
The clearance from strut housing to the inside of the wheel will be 10mm LESS
The outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 16mm

Of course the wheel diameters are also different and the strut is angled away from the wheel, so the distance to the strut is even farther at the lip of the wheel as you increase diameter of the wheel. Nothing is better than hearing peoples actual experiences when they have mounted different wheel and tire combinations, but it is interesting to see how the different sizes measure up on the calculator.

cap'n jasper

I gave my car a good thrashing over the past few days and I noticed it was much flatter in the turns. The reduction in body roll was quite pronounced.
The larger rear bar has made the handling feel much more solid.

ksing44

I can’t say I just gave my car a "good thrashing", but I went for a 5-hour drive to our summer home at Shelter Island with an absolutely full load in my car. I took my wife, her mom, my son, his friend, two bicycles on the Draw-tight hitch and an absolutely full trunk (boot). You wouldn’t believe how much stuff it takes to go for a week vacation at the beach. My car handled it. Even fully burdened with cargo, my car was magnificent in heavy traffic at rather high speeds in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York. It really is a pleasure to drive my car, even with a full load. I guess the Bilstein HDs are really made for this kind of trip. I wonder if the Sports would have done as well. The bars may not have made much of difference on a trip like this, but I still want to get those bars.

heffror

I am fairly certain that I am in the right thread/audience, since you guys are on your way to writing a disertation here. For 17"x7.5" rims, I believe that 215/45/17 is the correct tire. However, the rims I am thinking of purchasing have an offset of 30. I have seen a few posts that say any offset in the 30's will work, but I need to make certain because if they don't fit and I do purchase them, my wife will be less than pleased (that is being kind).

Thanks in advance,
Bob (1993 300CE - all stock suspension)

ksing44

I am truly not an expert, but my 16 X 7.5 ET37 wheels are somewhat close to the outside lip of the fender and I thought the ET35s must really be pushing it. Then I read above that ET42 was really the optimal ET with the 7.5” wheel and that you could even fit 8” wheels! I think ET 30 may be too low of a number for our cars. I would ask Luke at Tirerack about what will fit on the car. I trust his opinion and they say they have tried a lot of different wheels on all different models of cars.

In reference to the tires, 215/45/17s are definitely a good fit. I have read, however, that you can fit 225s if the offset is perfect. I am positive 215s will fit with the 17” wheels. In fact, I think that is the size recommended by Tirerack if go through the wheel selection process on their website using the E320 as the selection.

heffror

Well,

I spoke to Luke at TireRack - very helpful btw. Anyways, he said on 17x7.5 rims, any offset of 35 or higher will work - 30 is too low. Oh well, the search will continue.

Thanks again
Bob

lino

Where do you see the W124 Service CDs and EPCatalogs ?

AMGDave

I dunno, but I can also burn copies if needed... :p

lino

What is covered exactly?

Somebody was supposed to have them here, but the site hasn't been working:

http://mb.braingears.com/



I also found this site where:

http://drmemory.org/~dakota/MB/maintenance/index.html

I have the file on my desktop but can't get it to work.

AMGDave

Interesting links - too bad the first one doesn't work. The second one is NOT the servce CD's - if you read his "information", it states:
To avoid any confusion... these are just html INDEX files (or maybe you would call them Table of Contents files). You have to have the Mercedes-Benz Service Library CDs from which to take the PDF files and put in your hard drive. All I've done is made it easier to access those files.


The service CD-ROM is usually a 2-disc set and includes chassis, engine, body, climate control, and electrical service manuals. They are PDF scans from the original paper manuals. Some of the scan quality is poor, and in rare cases some pages are missing (from the 123 manual, anyway). You can still get paper manuals on eBay but that will cost you probably $200-$400 for a complete set (buying them all separately).

The EPC is Electronic Parts Catalog, it's the dealer "electronic micrfiche" for all MB models sold in North America since the dark ages. This is not sold by MB to the public in the USA. It's not that easy to use but extremely handy, especially if your parts guys don't always get things right... this way I can look up my own part numbers, and order from Rusty directly, and if the part number is wrong then it's my fault, not anyone else's. I've had very good success with that over the past ~3 years since I got the EPC!

AMGDave

Sway bar update: I now have the limo front, and 500E rear, bars installed on my car. I also have a Wiechers Sport front strut brace bar. The car handles very well and has minimal body roll, even with the mild Carat springs & shocks (which I believe are Eibach springs, and Bilstein HD's). I like it a lot.

BTW, the price of the sway bars has gone up recently. The Sporline kit is now about $275 shipped, and the "Plus" kit (limo + 500E) is about $400 shipped. I have updated my spreadsheet with the current pricing, and also made a couple of corrections on the bar diameters - both V8 front bars do not drop to 18mm like the 6cyl bars. The current files (Excel or PDF) are here, along with photos of the sway bars:

http://www.meimann.com/images/mercedes/W124_sway_bars/

lino

Thanks AMGDave

I was just about to ask about a strut brace to complement the sway bars and you beat me to the punch Where can I see a pic of the strut brace?

Congrats on your new setup.

AMGDave

here ya go!







:p

lino

That's real sharp! That's Quality!
How much $$$ does one of those bad boys go for?

I found one at http://www.tuningzubehor.com


RED Styling Strut Brace
front, upper, polished aluminum

This item fits:
Mercedes W124 01'85-
Mercedes W124 Convertible 01'85-05'95
Mercedes W124 Coupe 01'85-
Mercedes W124T Station Wagon 08'86-
Price: $179.95

I have also read that there is one made by Lorinser?

Which one is the best and other there any other manufacturers that produced or produces them?