Fitting 17 x 8 38 ET E500 W211 Wheels
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Fitting 17 x 8 38 ET E500 W211 Wheels
I got these wheels for my E320 Cab
Issues:
1) Tires are 245/40 and are very close to the strut, they should be 215 to 225 wide
2) Wheel center hole is very tight on front hub
3) need 20.5mm vs 38mm long lug bolts, measured by how far they protrude past the wheel mounting surface
4) bolt length needs to be shorter because the wheel mount thickness (lug head to mount surface) is significantly thinner, maybe these are forged vs cast
5) 35 is the common ET for 17 x 8, not sure yet if 38 ET will require fender rolling
6) Have yet to check static and dynamic clearances, I'd like to avoid fender rolling
Issues:
1) Tires are 245/40 and are very close to the strut, they should be 215 to 225 wide
2) Wheel center hole is very tight on front hub
3) need 20.5mm vs 38mm long lug bolts, measured by how far they protrude past the wheel mounting surface
4) bolt length needs to be shorter because the wheel mount thickness (lug head to mount surface) is significantly thinner, maybe these are forged vs cast
5) 35 is the common ET for 17 x 8, not sure yet if 38 ET will require fender rolling
6) Have yet to check static and dynamic clearances, I'd like to avoid fender rolling
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 3
From: North NJ
94 Wagon and 94 Cabriolet
I just stocked up on lug sizes, so I would have nice new sets, but also a wide range of lengths to avoid double trips to tire place in the future.
1: Almost all my wheels are ball seat. The Carlsson 1/6, the 1/6 evo in both 17" and 18". All the aero Is and IIs I have.
-only exception is the Brabus IIIs, they are conical / cone seat.
Just making a point as no one was sure when I was asking, so maybe not completely common knowledge.
2: ET38 moves you away not towards the fenders.
3: I have not seen a lug that short, shortest I have seen was 24mm, on ebay now, I think for less than $40 shipped.
1: Almost all my wheels are ball seat. The Carlsson 1/6, the 1/6 evo in both 17" and 18". All the aero Is and IIs I have.
-only exception is the Brabus IIIs, they are conical / cone seat.
Just making a point as no one was sure when I was asking, so maybe not completely common knowledge.
2: ET38 moves you away not towards the fenders.
3: I have not seen a lug that short, shortest I have seen was 24mm, on ebay now, I think for less than $40 shipped.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
I think you're one of the few who run 17x8
1. My lug seats appear to be ball type
2. I always get confused even though I know it's the distance from the wheel center to the mount face. Given how close to the strut it seems I'd need a larger ET or narrower tire
3. lug length
When the stock lug bolt is through the stock E320 wheel, it protrudes .625 or 16mm. Given the 1.5" or 38mm length, the ball to wheel face is .8125 or 20.6mm thick.
When through the E500 wheel, it protrudes 1.3125" or 33mm. There's only .188" or 5mm thickness from the ball to the wheel face.
So I add 5mm to 16mm = 21mm. Maybe I need 5mm spacers and 26mm bolts.
Thanks for your input
1. My lug seats appear to be ball type
2. I always get confused even though I know it's the distance from the wheel center to the mount face. Given how close to the strut it seems I'd need a larger ET or narrower tire
3. lug length
When the stock lug bolt is through the stock E320 wheel, it protrudes .625 or 16mm. Given the 1.5" or 38mm length, the ball to wheel face is .8125 or 20.6mm thick.
When through the E500 wheel, it protrudes 1.3125" or 33mm. There's only .188" or 5mm thickness from the ball to the wheel face.
So I add 5mm to 16mm = 21mm. Maybe I need 5mm spacers and 26mm bolts.
Thanks for your input
Last edited by pifcat2; Apr 25, 2011 at 04:20 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 3
From: North NJ
94 Wagon and 94 Cabriolet
The only 17x8 wheels I have are the Brabus IIIs and I have not run them yet.
But frankly, with that ET, I would expect
215x45, 225x40 to work for sure but I would probably try 225x45 tires first, with no spacers, and some 24mm lugs.
But frankly, with that ET, I would expect
215x45, 225x40 to work for sure but I would probably try 225x45 tires first, with no spacers, and some 24mm lugs.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: Coloradoo
1991 300E
pifcat,
Those wheels are from a W211 right? I have the lug bolts you need. They are 14mm ball seat, with a M12x1.5 thread. The W211 used 14mm ball seats with M14x1.5 thread. As opposed to W210,W124,W201 etc that use 12mm ball seat M12x1.5. I got them from Rad Lugs for a set of W211 E500 Sport wheels I was buying. Turns out I actually got replica E500 wheels that were 12mm ball seat. I just paid $63 shipped for these lugs. You can have em for $50 shipped if you want. Any stock length lug bolts will hit the parking brake in the rear, they are too long.
17x8 ET38 shoudn't require fender rolling, but it all depends. Even two cars with the same suspension and same wheels, one may rub, one may not. The ET38 works in your favor here. The 17x8 ET35 wheels I just bought are about as damn wide as you can go with stock W124 fenders and 225/45's. The extra +3 should tuck the wheel in more, in your case. I had to roll front and rear for ET35.
Those wheels are from a W211 right? I have the lug bolts you need. They are 14mm ball seat, with a M12x1.5 thread. The W211 used 14mm ball seats with M14x1.5 thread. As opposed to W210,W124,W201 etc that use 12mm ball seat M12x1.5. I got them from Rad Lugs for a set of W211 E500 Sport wheels I was buying. Turns out I actually got replica E500 wheels that were 12mm ball seat. I just paid $63 shipped for these lugs. You can have em for $50 shipped if you want. Any stock length lug bolts will hit the parking brake in the rear, they are too long.
17x8 ET38 shoudn't require fender rolling, but it all depends. Even two cars with the same suspension and same wheels, one may rub, one may not. The ET38 works in your favor here. The 17x8 ET35 wheels I just bought are about as damn wide as you can go with stock W124 fenders and 225/45's. The extra +3 should tuck the wheel in more, in your case. I had to roll front and rear for ET35.
Last edited by John M.; Apr 26, 2011 at 01:38 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 178
From: Seattle WA
99 E320
John has highlighted an important point: ball seat radius is smaller on the 124
so if you continue to use the OEM bolts and do not pick up the hybrid RAD type
bolts, you'll end up with something akin to this....
so if you continue to use the OEM bolts and do not pick up the hybrid RAD type
bolts, you'll end up with something akin to this....
Last edited by raymond g-; Apr 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
pifcat,
Those wheels are from a W211 right? I have the lug bolts you need. They are 14mm ball seat, with a M12x1.5 thread. The W211 used 14mm ball seats with M14x1.5 thread. As opposed to W210,W124,W201 etc that use 12mm ball seat M12x1.5. I got them from Rad Lugs for a set of W211 E500 Sport wheels I was buying. Turns out I actually got replica E500 wheels that were 12mm ball seat. I just paid $63 shipped for these lugs. You can have em for $50 shipped if you want. Any stock length lug bolts will hit the parking brake in the rear, they are too long.
17x8 ET38 shoudn't require fender rolling, but it all depends. Even two cars with the same suspension and same wheels, one may rub, one may not. The ET38 works in your favor here. The 17x8 ET35 wheels I just bought are about as damn wide as you can go with stock W124 fenders and 225/45's. The extra +3 should tuck the wheel in more, in your case. I had to roll front and rear for ET35.
Those wheels are from a W211 right? I have the lug bolts you need. They are 14mm ball seat, with a M12x1.5 thread. The W211 used 14mm ball seats with M14x1.5 thread. As opposed to W210,W124,W201 etc that use 12mm ball seat M12x1.5. I got them from Rad Lugs for a set of W211 E500 Sport wheels I was buying. Turns out I actually got replica E500 wheels that were 12mm ball seat. I just paid $63 shipped for these lugs. You can have em for $50 shipped if you want. Any stock length lug bolts will hit the parking brake in the rear, they are too long.
17x8 ET38 shoudn't require fender rolling, but it all depends. Even two cars with the same suspension and same wheels, one may rub, one may not. The ET38 works in your favor here. The 17x8 ET35 wheels I just bought are about as damn wide as you can go with stock W124 fenders and 225/45's. The extra +3 should tuck the wheel in more, in your case. I had to roll front and rear for ET35.
Good info, I was wondering whether the seats were conical or ball, didn't know there was a wider ball.
The 245's are wide so I'm looking to get narrower 215 or 225 tires as RHW suggested. It's very close to the strut with this ET and I haven't even tightened them down.
Also concerned when I trial fit the front, the grease cap seemed to prevent the wheel from sitting flat on the hub face. The wheel hole may be slightly smaller. I think the lug bolts will draw it in but my stock bolts were too long. How long are yours?
Felix
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: Coloradoo
1991 300E
These are the correct length bolts to use for 17's on a W124. This is from my second backup set, they are actually genuine Mercedes stamped bolts that I got with a set of Aero II's. The hybrid RAD bolts are also the same length.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Before I buy the lugs, how long are they? Like I mentioned, my wheel is relatively very thin from the mount surface to where the ball starts ~.19" or 5mm. The lug can't protrude too far into the hub.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Wheels fit with plenty of clearance except tire to strut which is 1/8 - 1/4". The bottom of the strut bellows will get scraped by the wheel. I rotated the clip prongs away from the tire. The fronts still stick out a little in the front but are well under the flare in the back. No worries unless I lower the car.
The only bad thing is the wheel/tire weight almost doubled.
Torqued the bolts to 80 ft/lbs, per E320 specs. Anyone know what the spec is for the E500 wheels?
According to the Miata calculator, the wheels are .30" smaller diameter so my mileage at 60 is 59.4.
Bolts fit perfect, thanks John!
The only bad thing is the wheel/tire weight almost doubled.
Torqued the bolts to 80 ft/lbs, per E320 specs. Anyone know what the spec is for the E500 wheels?
According to the Miata calculator, the wheels are .30" smaller diameter so my mileage at 60 is 59.4.
Bolts fit perfect, thanks John!
Last edited by pifcat2; May 7, 2011 at 10:33 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 1
From: British Columbia, Canada
1987 560SL
That will certainly have an adverse effect performance and ride. It may even wear out your suspension components faster.
Nice wheels, though. You could perhaps use 5mm HUBCENTRIC H&R spacers on the front for a little more inner clearance. I ran my 15mm spacers for 3 years - no issues.
Nice wheels, though. You could perhaps use 5mm HUBCENTRIC H&R spacers on the front for a little more inner clearance. I ran my 15mm spacers for 3 years - no issues.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
That will certainly have an adverse effect performance and ride. It may even wear out your suspension components faster.
Nice wheels, though. You could perhaps use 5mm HUBCENTRIC H&R spacers on the front for a little more inner clearance. I ran my 15mm spacers for 3 years - no issues.
Nice wheels, though. You could perhaps use 5mm HUBCENTRIC H&R spacers on the front for a little more inner clearance. I ran my 15mm spacers for 3 years - no issues.
Odd, I only have some rubbing on the left front fender near the cladding. I know my shocks need replacing because they bottom out on deep dips. Haven't decided whether to modify my HD's of fit the 500E struts with the same hub bolt size.
I have to carry the stock bolts for my spare. I was going to wait until I washed the car but here's a pic.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 1
From: British Columbia, Canada
1987 560SL
I reviewed my notes and the wheel/tire is 8 lbs heavier than stock, still more but reasonable for the wider and larger diameter. The PO said the tires are filled with nitrogen, anyone heard of that?
Odd, I only have some rubbing on the left front fender near the cladding. I know my shocks need replacing because they bottom out on deep dips. Haven't decided whether to modify my HD's of fit the 500E struts with the same hub bolt size.
I have to carry the stock bolts for my spare. I was going to wait until I washed the car but here's a pic.
Odd, I only have some rubbing on the left front fender near the cladding. I know my shocks need replacing because they bottom out on deep dips. Haven't decided whether to modify my HD's of fit the 500E struts with the same hub bolt size.
I have to carry the stock bolts for my spare. I was going to wait until I washed the car but here's a pic.
I am sure the weight will be fine.
There are some cheap Asian replicas that are really heavy. Some aren't even round.
BTW, I have heard of nitrogen filling, but waste of money IMHO.
Perswonally, I fill my tires with helium to reduce weight
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
I tried some AMG 17 x 8 ET28 with 225/45's and they were still getting "shaved" on the outside corner. They are .5" narrower but the offset places them closer to the fender. I installed 215's on the fronts and so far they don't rub/scrape. I plan to install the AMG type fender spacers and then try rolling them so I can run the AMG mono's.
