ANOTHER cooling problem, but this is different...
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
ANOTHER cooling problem, but this is different...
My '87 300E just get's to 120 degrees C when it's 85 F degrees outside temp while in stop and go traffic. I've had to stop or turn on the heater to prevent it from rising. The single front fan is operational so the thermostat appears to work. The car immediately cools to normal temp when I get up to 30 MPH. Other than hot weather and stop and go traffic, the cooling is a normal <100 C. Anyone have good troubleshooting ideas before I start replacing the w/p thermostat, fan fluid dampener, water pump, or radiator? Which way should the electric fan turn? I can feel air flow toward the front but I thought the engine fan pulls air toward the engine. The "red" mark on the gauge is just north of 120 C. How long of running at 120 C before the engine is damaged?
Last edited by pifcat2; Aug 20, 2004 at 04:46 AM.
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From: Germany
'00 S320 W220, '98 A160 W168/ sold in 2005 '86 260 E W124 '90 260E W124
Most probably the fluid coupling of the main fan is shot. It is a silicon oil filled element which engages the fan depending on the demand of colling air required. It is hard to tell by looking at the fan. One not very objective test is to try to turn the fan by hand when the engine is cold. When you push the fan (engine cold and OFF) it shall not túrn anywhere close to 90 degree on its own. To replace the fluid coupling is not very complicated. You just need a metric Allen wrench 6 or 8 mm (forgot) and a steel rod 7-8 mm diameter with a 90 degree bending of about 1/2 Inch to hold the coupling when loosening the centre screw.
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
Maybe
My friend had a similar problem on his 190E. For him, it was the small accessory water pump. His was frozen and a new little pump solved the problem. You can disconnect the little pump and connect it to a battery to see if it turns. I would ask for tech help at MercedesShop.com
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haters crazy
I am having a similar problem. The car gets hot in stop and go traffic too but is fine on the highway. I also notice that there is a hose that goes from the coolant reservoir back toward the passenger side fender and down into a container. This container overflows when car gets hot. Does this mean I need a new cap or what?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Aux pump
Ksing44,
Are you sure 300E's have this pump? Where is it mounted?
Bamberger_1,
I will plan to replace it and the thermostat before dealing with the water pump or radiator.
Thanks all,
Felix
Are you sure 300E's have this pump? Where is it mounted?
Bamberger_1,
I will plan to replace it and the thermostat before dealing with the water pump or radiator.
Thanks all,
Felix
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 193
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From: Miami, FL
ex 300E driver
Originally Posted by bamberger_1
Most probably the fluid coupling of the main fan is shot. It is a silicon oil filled element which engages the fan depending on the demand of colling air required. It is hard to tell by looking at the fan. One not very objective test is to try to turn the fan by hand when the engine is cold. When you push the fan (engine cold and OFF) it shall not túrn anywhere close to 90 degree on its own. To replace the fluid coupling is not very complicated. You just need a metric Allen wrench 6 or 8 mm (forgot) and a steel rod 7-8 mm diameter with a 90 degree bending of about 1/2 Inch to hold the coupling when loosening the centre screw.
Well regarding this main fan which is called the viscous fan clutch:
I have one taken from a 1988 300E. The car was rear ended and had 89k on the odometer. The fan clutch is here at my house serving no purpose. I sold my 300E before I installed it. If anyone is interested in it, PM me or email me at: lmorr004@fiu.edu
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Super Member
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From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
I'm a BOZO
I am not an expert or even an amateur DIY. I am a BOZO with not experience under my hood, but I think mine is near the battery on my 1995 E320. All I know about my motor is that it is very clean considering it is 10 years old and has 80,000 miles. I think it must stay very clean because of that plastic cover under the car. I never detail the motor or anything. It just stays very clean in there.
Your description of the problem just sounded exactly like 190Eboy's, so I chimed in. I would ask the Tech guys at mercedesshop.com
Your description of the problem just sounded exactly like 190Eboy's, so I chimed in. I would ask the Tech guys at mercedesshop.com
Last edited by ksing44; Aug 23, 2004 at 04:52 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Germany
'00 S320 W220, '98 A160 W168/ sold in 2005 '86 260 E W124 '90 260E W124
Originally Posted by pifcat2
Ksing44,
Are you sure 300E's have this pump? Where is it mounted?
Bamberger_1,
I will plan to replace it and the thermostat before dealing with the water pump or radiator.
Thanks all,
Felix
Are you sure 300E's have this pump? Where is it mounted?
Bamberger_1,
I will plan to replace it and the thermostat before dealing with the water pump or radiator.
Thanks all,
Felix
Bamberger_1
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Bamberger_01,
Thank you, that makes alot of sense.
I would consider Mike's offer on the used part but I read these fan couplers go bad even new. How do you check these?
Kings44,
I appreciate the chime in and helping me be aware of this part. Someone mentioned 300E's use an electric water pump in another forum and I only knew of the belt driven pump.
Felix
Thank you, that makes alot of sense.
I would consider Mike's offer on the used part but I read these fan couplers go bad even new. How do you check these?
Kings44,
I appreciate the chime in and helping me be aware of this part. Someone mentioned 300E's use an electric water pump in another forum and I only knew of the belt driven pump.
Felix
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 193
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From: Miami, FL
ex 300E driver
The reason these fans go bad sometimes when new is because some of the shops make a mistake and store the clutches horizontally. Than leads to the fluid somehow leaking out, and the fan is rendered useless. It looks new, but because of the way they store them, they are already broken. I have mine in my house stored vertically, the proper way.
still interested in it?
still interested in it?
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 826
Likes: 4
From: Southeast PA
2010 VW Golf TDI
You go 190Eboy
Just so you know, the picture I posted of the auxiliary water pump was taken from the 300E section of buymbparts.com. You must have one. 190Eboy also told me that he was able to reduce the engine operating temperature, by running the heater, even though his auxiliary water pump was frozen. I am not saying that you definitely have the same problem. It just sounds like you are experiencing the same symptoms. 
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Germany
'00 S320 W220, '98 A160 W168/ sold in 2005 '86 260 E W124 '90 260E W124
Originally Posted by pifcat2
Bamberger_01,
Thank you, that makes alot of sense.
I would consider Mike's offer on the used part but I read these fan couplers go bad even new. How do you check these?
Kings44,
I appreciate the chime in and helping me be aware of this part. Someone mentioned 300E's use an electric water pump in another forum and I only knew of the belt driven pump.
Felix
Thank you, that makes alot of sense.
I would consider Mike's offer on the used part but I read these fan couplers go bad even new. How do you check these?
Kings44,
I appreciate the chime in and helping me be aware of this part. Someone mentioned 300E's use an electric water pump in another forum and I only knew of the belt driven pump.
Felix
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 977
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From: San Jose
300TE / 300E / 300CE
Bamberger_01,
I tried your test but am unsure of the results. I can push the fan and it has resistance <90 degrees. I can push it harder to make it rotate more. I guess my hand needs calibration!
Felix
I tried your test but am unsure of the results. I can push the fan and it has resistance <90 degrees. I can push it harder to make it rotate more. I guess my hand needs calibration!
Felix
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Charlotte, NC
Had: 1987 300TD, Had: 2004 C230 Sport Sedan, Have: 2014 E350 Sport, Have: 2019 S450
Originally Posted by pifcat2
My '87 300E just get's to 120 degrees C when it's 85 F degrees outside temp while in stop and go traffic. I've had to stop or turn on the heater to prevent it from rising. The single front fan is operational so the thermostat appears to work. The car immediately cools to normal temp when I get up to 30 MPH. Other than hot weather and stop and go traffic, the cooling is a normal <100 C. Anyone have good troubleshooting ideas before I start replacing the w/p thermostat, fan fluid dampener, water pump, or radiator? Which way should the electric fan turn? I can feel air flow toward the front but I thought the engine fan pulls air toward the engine. The "red" mark on the gauge is just north of 120 C. How long of running at 120 C before the engine is damaged?
Finally, when I had to replace the A/C condensor I found the problem: lodged between the condensor and the radiator was a ton of trash (leaves, pine needles, straw, etc.). I don't know how it got there, but it was preventing airflow through 1/2 of the radiator. Once that got cleaned out, the car rarely exceeded 100C again.
If you can find a way, check between the condensor and the radiator, to see if you have airflow through this area.
Good luck.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Germany
'00 S320 W220, '98 A160 W168/ sold in 2005 '86 260 E W124 '90 260E W124
Originally Posted by pifcat2
Bamberger_01,
I tried your test but am unsure of the results. I can push the fan and it has resistance <90 degrees. I can push it harder to make it rotate more. I guess my hand needs calibration!
Felix
I tried your test but am unsure of the results. I can push the fan and it has resistance <90 degrees. I can push it harder to make it rotate more. I guess my hand needs calibration!
Felix
The other posters comment about a clogged radiator on the air side, between A/C condensor and radiator is a pretty good idea to be checked. But I also have the question how the hell the dirt got there???
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From: Charlotte, NC
Had: 1987 300TD, Had: 2004 C230 Sport Sedan, Have: 2014 E350 Sport, Have: 2019 S450
Originally Posted by bamberger_1
The other posters comment about a clogged radiator on the air side, between A/C condensor and radiator is a pretty good idea to be checked. But I also have the question how the hell the dirt got there???
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haters crazy
My fan and condenser were broken from an earlier accident and the car would over heat in stop and go traffic. So this weekend I took out the condenser and the fan and it doesnt overheat anymore. It looks really nice too (looks like it's turbocharged cuz the radiator looks like an intercooler 
.)
.)
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 169
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From: Kentucky
500E's
Guys,
What is it with the 300's and this problem. I have the EXACT same problem as described in the original post. Mine came about after replacing one of the aux fans up front (and the sub harness) since the fan froze up melted and took part of the wiring harness with it. Since getting the car back I have had the problem described with no resolution yet.
Has anyone else found a definitive root cause?
Thanks,
bear
What is it with the 300's and this problem. I have the EXACT same problem as described in the original post. Mine came about after replacing one of the aux fans up front (and the sub harness) since the fan froze up melted and took part of the wiring harness with it. Since getting the car back I have had the problem described with no resolution yet.
Has anyone else found a definitive root cause?
Thanks,
bear
Last edited by McBear300E; Sep 10, 2004 at 10:17 PM. Reason: typo
