Farewell: Making the Jump: MB to Lexus
#126
Ah, don't let the title bug ya. ![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I've concluded that all published numbers are trash. Horsepower ratings, torque ratings, tire width ratings, performance numbers, whatever OEM says, it's most likely underrated a significant amount![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
S600 is rated at 493hp. LOL!
The Lexus is strongly geared towards US driving, you are very right that the 0-60 is biased, but that still doesn't change the fact that it's a quick car. :p
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I've concluded that all published numbers are trash. Horsepower ratings, torque ratings, tire width ratings, performance numbers, whatever OEM says, it's most likely underrated a significant amount
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
S600 is rated at 493hp. LOL!
The Lexus is strongly geared towards US driving, you are very right that the 0-60 is biased, but that still doesn't change the fact that it's a quick car. :p
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Ah, don't let the title bug ya. ![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I've concluded that all published numbers are trash. Horsepower ratings, torque ratings, tire width ratings, performance numbers, whatever OEM says, it's most likely underrated a significant amount![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
S600 is rated at 493hp. LOL!
The Lexus is strongly geared towards US driving, you are very right that the 0-60 is biased, but that still doesn't change the fact that it's a quick car. :p
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I've concluded that all published numbers are trash. Horsepower ratings, torque ratings, tire width ratings, performance numbers, whatever OEM says, it's most likely underrated a significant amount
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
S600 is rated at 493hp. LOL!
The Lexus is strongly geared towards US driving, you are very right that the 0-60 is biased, but that still doesn't change the fact that it's a quick car. :p
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![EEK!](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
Anyway.. congrats on the Lexus rjm and please hang out and troll
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#129
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Originally Posted by CE750
Anyway.. congrats on the Lexus rjm and please hang out and troll
us when ever you like! ![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#130
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Good luck w/ the Lexus.. very good choice. It may not be the most sporty car, but in terms of cost of ownership, the money you'll save on repairs.. and most importantly reliability, you will see, lexus is far superior to a benz.
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It may not be the most sporty car, but in terms of cost of ownership, the money you'll save on repairs.. and most importantly reliability, you will see, lexus is far superior to a benz.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BlownV8
Using that logic, a Hundai is a better car than Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Bently, Rolls Royce, ETC, ETC... However, I do agree that the Lexus will be more trouble free but in my mind that does not make it a better car for me.
And that is where rjm and most of us diverge! It's all about perspective of what "best" is... truly a subjective thing. The auto media seems to be obsessed with cup holders and reliability, which is why BMW and MB always get great reviews, but never top pics.
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W210 E320, SLK55 AMG
Originally Posted by endy
dang.. so many haters about switching from german--> japanese
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#134
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which is why BMW and MB always get great reviews, but never top pics.
Last edited by BlownV8; 09-02-2005 at 11:22 AM.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BlownV8
I don't know what auto entheusiast magazine you are referring to but, the ones I read, Mercedes and BMW are usually on top. You must be referring to JD Power survey?
to be honest... it's a bit common these days for the rice to take top.. even though you KNOW the German cars are better... I think the auto media just loves Rice
![rice](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rice.gif)
#136
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From Motortrend:
Conclusion
We remain impressed by the uncompromising quality and finesse that's evident throughout the Lexus SC 430. Many spas aren't this relaxing. Yet the car leaves us hungering for more flavor and driving excitement. This isn't an automobile that'll inspire you to sneak to the garage at night just to smile at its lines. Nor will its ultra-competent moves set your synapses afire. The SC, instead, is the ultimate in splendid isolation--and more than 14,000 buyers annually couldn't be happier.
It's difficult to conceal our admiration for the Mercedes-Benz SL500. Few automobiles do so many things so well--or look so good doing them. From its timeless lines to its Pullman-car cabin to its effortless, exhilarating performance, the SL stirs the senses even as it soothes the soul--a remarkable achievement that justifies its steep admission price. Status is obviously a huge purchase consideration, too: for many shoppers in this imperial market niche, only the three-pointed star will do.
Yet here comes the Cadillac XLR, a car brimming with personality, performance, and astutely integrated, leading-edge technology. Does it take the crown from the SL500? Final answer: not quite. The SL has ingot-like fit and finish, and it radiates a poise and sophistication that, frankly, we'd expect of a company that's been building SLs for half a century. Yet that only emphasizes Cadillac's achievement. The XLR is a world-class roadster that, right out of the box, is nipping at the heels of one of the most legendary two-seaters in the business. Factor in the XLR's $10,000-plus price advantage, and it's a safe bet that Cadillac should have no trouble selling the 5000 or so XLRs it's aiming to build this year.
For now, the Mercedes-Benz SL500 remains on top. But the arrival of the Cadillac XLR proves an age-old adage: It may be great to be king, but you're never safe on the throne. Just ask Elvis.
We remain impressed by the uncompromising quality and finesse that's evident throughout the Lexus SC 430. Many spas aren't this relaxing. Yet the car leaves us hungering for more flavor and driving excitement. This isn't an automobile that'll inspire you to sneak to the garage at night just to smile at its lines. Nor will its ultra-competent moves set your synapses afire. The SC, instead, is the ultimate in splendid isolation--and more than 14,000 buyers annually couldn't be happier.
It's difficult to conceal our admiration for the Mercedes-Benz SL500. Few automobiles do so many things so well--or look so good doing them. From its timeless lines to its Pullman-car cabin to its effortless, exhilarating performance, the SL stirs the senses even as it soothes the soul--a remarkable achievement that justifies its steep admission price. Status is obviously a huge purchase consideration, too: for many shoppers in this imperial market niche, only the three-pointed star will do.
Yet here comes the Cadillac XLR, a car brimming with personality, performance, and astutely integrated, leading-edge technology. Does it take the crown from the SL500? Final answer: not quite. The SL has ingot-like fit and finish, and it radiates a poise and sophistication that, frankly, we'd expect of a company that's been building SLs for half a century. Yet that only emphasizes Cadillac's achievement. The XLR is a world-class roadster that, right out of the box, is nipping at the heels of one of the most legendary two-seaters in the business. Factor in the XLR's $10,000-plus price advantage, and it's a safe bet that Cadillac should have no trouble selling the 5000 or so XLRs it's aiming to build this year.
For now, the Mercedes-Benz SL500 remains on top. But the arrival of the Cadillac XLR proves an age-old adage: It may be great to be king, but you're never safe on the throne. Just ask Elvis.
Last edited by BlownV8; 09-02-2005 at 11:36 AM.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Here ya go... and there's plenty more out there.. Try Google.
Japs took 1st, 2nd and 3rd.. Germans 4th and 5th and 6th.. Brits 6th..
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Japs took 1st, 2nd and 3rd.. Germans 4th and 5th and 6th.. Brits 6th..
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
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auto enthusiast magazine
Last edited by BlownV8; 09-02-2005 at 12:33 PM.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BlownV8
Car and Driver does not fit that category. IMHO, Car and Driver is trash auto journalism and it's not because this story. I stopped subscribing to the magazine a long time ago because I found their reviews and tests to be very flawed and pretty much useless. Auto Week, Motor Trend, and Road & Track are good auto enthusiast magazines.
I sure don't.
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
I found the MT article best sum up the nature of Lexus vs Mercedes (not to mention why Audi is the best luxury car). Pretty much state that you want to be a passenger in a Lexus, but be a driver in a Benz. And yep, to each his own, but most pro consider the Lexus is boring in look/drive, and the German is overprice/compromise quality.
Btw, in the latest MT, when review about the new IS350, write put it best at "you might want to push it to 8, where it handles well & gracefully. But beyond that, it's a bit scary, not stable & confident as German car". The new IS250 is a lammo, lacks both power and handling. Lexus, Inf, and Acura seem know how to build car that last forever & great 0-60 number on straight road, but for real world driving (read "drive & smile"
), they still have game to catch up.
Keep in mind that the E500 is much more modern, powerful and handle even better than the S430 (in test)
For Mercedes S430
For Lexus LS430
For Audi A8
What's Hot
• Modern styling
• Roomy and sophisticated cabin
• Outstanding handling
What's Not
• Weight-constrained acceleration
• Subpar navigation system
• Front cupholder too shallow
![](https://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0409_class44_l.jpg)
![](https://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0409_class28_l.jpg)
Btw, in the latest MT, when review about the new IS350, write put it best at "you might want to push it to 8, where it handles well & gracefully. But beyond that, it's a bit scary, not stable & confident as German car". The new IS250 is a lammo, lacks both power and handling. Lexus, Inf, and Acura seem know how to build car that last forever & great 0-60 number on straight road, but for real world driving (read "drive & smile"
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Keep in mind that the E500 is much more modern, powerful and handle even better than the S430 (in test)
For Mercedes S430
Mercedes sells only the long-wheelbase (121.5 inches) version of the S-Class in the United States. Even for all of its size and generous interior room, though, the Benz is no porker. Curb weight (4201 pounds) is second-lightest in the group. With the low mass and a new seven-speed electronically controlled automatic transmission, even with "only" 275 horsepower, the S430 manages to keep up with the more-potent herd. The new automatic also improves driving finesse. Wrote one editor: "You can decelerate gracefully without the brakes--so closely spaced are the seven ratios that downshifts are just supremely smooth." The throttle pedal is notable for its fluid response, too--it gives you no hiccups or power spikes when pulling away from a stop.
Aided by an optional AMG Sport package ($5210), which adds 18-inch AMG wheels and low-profile Michelin rubber (and some aggressive body pieces), the S430 sailed through our slalom and braking tests just behind the top-performing BMW. "Confident and serene at speed, with superb handling," wrote one editor. "No surprises when you push this one hard--holds its line through fast sweepers effortlessly." Wrote another: "Steering is not the most communicative, but it's linear and predictable and the tires always seem to have more bite to contribute." And even with its excellent handling prowess, the Benz still manages to deliver a reasonably supple ride (the feeling of a quality ride experience is helped, in part, by the body's solidity).
Mildly freshened two years ago, the S430 remains lean and attractive. The relentlessly businesslike cabin drew mixed reviews, however. "I'm getting tired of terminally black German interiors," wrote one editor. "How about just a little dress-up to put one in a better mood?" Several editors also noted some obvious signs of age sure to be addressed in the new S-Class coming for 2006--including a CD changer parked inconveniently in the trunk and fiddly buttons for the radio and climate-control system. And almost everyone complained about the too-high driver's seat; we found ourselves constantly pushing the power-seat switch to try to lower it down.
Still, the S430 is a solid, capable, status-filled luxury cruiser. Summed up one editor succinctly: "It's not hard to understand why an awful lot of drivers want to be at the wheel of this Mercedes."
What's Hot
• Stout structure
• Vice-free handling
• Prestige of the three-pointed star
What's Not
• Dour interior
• Dated controls
• High price
Aided by an optional AMG Sport package ($5210), which adds 18-inch AMG wheels and low-profile Michelin rubber (and some aggressive body pieces), the S430 sailed through our slalom and braking tests just behind the top-performing BMW. "Confident and serene at speed, with superb handling," wrote one editor. "No surprises when you push this one hard--holds its line through fast sweepers effortlessly." Wrote another: "Steering is not the most communicative, but it's linear and predictable and the tires always seem to have more bite to contribute." And even with its excellent handling prowess, the Benz still manages to deliver a reasonably supple ride (the feeling of a quality ride experience is helped, in part, by the body's solidity).
Mildly freshened two years ago, the S430 remains lean and attractive. The relentlessly businesslike cabin drew mixed reviews, however. "I'm getting tired of terminally black German interiors," wrote one editor. "How about just a little dress-up to put one in a better mood?" Several editors also noted some obvious signs of age sure to be addressed in the new S-Class coming for 2006--including a CD changer parked inconveniently in the trunk and fiddly buttons for the radio and climate-control system. And almost everyone complained about the too-high driver's seat; we found ourselves constantly pushing the power-seat switch to try to lower it down.
Still, the S430 is a solid, capable, status-filled luxury cruiser. Summed up one editor succinctly: "It's not hard to understand why an awful lot of drivers want to be at the wheel of this Mercedes."
What's Hot
• Stout structure
• Vice-free handling
• Prestige of the three-pointed star
What's Not
• Dour interior
• Dated controls
• High price
The LS doesn't trumpet spectacular specifications. Its 32-valve, 4.3-liter V-8 puts out 290 horsepower, second-least in this group, and curb weight is 4227 pounds--about midpack. Yet thanks in part to a robust 320 pound-feet of torque and an astutely geared six-speed automatic, the Lexus cracked off the group's second-best acceleration times, reaching 60 mph in just 6.4 seconds and running the quarter mile in 14.7 at 95 mph. Said one editor: "Engine is extremely quiet on the highway--you can hardly hear it--but it pulls hard when asked and makes great sounds as it nears its redline." The Lexus also returned the best fuel-economy average (20.2 mpg) during our comparison testing.
Only one thing upsets the LS 430's otherwise serene and unflappable demeanor: hard cornering. Unlike the Jag and the German entries, which clearly carry a healthy dose of sport in their DNA, the Lexus would rather stroll through the twisties, thank you very much. Not only does the handling feel greasy when pushed, this car won't even let you drive it to the limit. On two separate occasions, we had barely hurled the Lexus into the first tight corner of our handling loop when the standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) system stepped in and cut the power. This isn't a mild trimming of the throttle, mind you. No, push too hard and the VSC hits the brakes and cuts the power. At the same time, bells ring, whistles go off, sirens blare (well, there's a lot of electronic screaming, anyway). One of our drivers even activated the car's precollision system. "When I powered into the first tight turn, the VSC intervened hard and the presafe thing scrunched me into the seat with the seatbelts."
If your idea of a good time is briefcase-spilling cornering gs, better shop elsewhere . Everyone else, though, will find a lot to like in this Lexus. "Drives easily, capably, and sweetly," wrote one editor. "No funny business. An extremely appealing luxury sedan for the vast majority of drivers."
What's Hot
• Exquisite refinement
• Abundant conveniences
• User-friendly demeanor
What's Not
• Stodgy design
• Greasy limit handling
• Overprotective electronic stability nanny
Only one thing upsets the LS 430's otherwise serene and unflappable demeanor: hard cornering. Unlike the Jag and the German entries, which clearly carry a healthy dose of sport in their DNA, the Lexus would rather stroll through the twisties, thank you very much. Not only does the handling feel greasy when pushed, this car won't even let you drive it to the limit. On two separate occasions, we had barely hurled the Lexus into the first tight corner of our handling loop when the standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) system stepped in and cut the power. This isn't a mild trimming of the throttle, mind you. No, push too hard and the VSC hits the brakes and cuts the power. At the same time, bells ring, whistles go off, sirens blare (well, there's a lot of electronic screaming, anyway). One of our drivers even activated the car's precollision system. "When I powered into the first tight turn, the VSC intervened hard and the presafe thing scrunched me into the seat with the seatbelts."
If your idea of a good time is briefcase-spilling cornering gs, better shop elsewhere . Everyone else, though, will find a lot to like in this Lexus. "Drives easily, capably, and sweetly," wrote one editor. "No funny business. An extremely appealing luxury sedan for the vast majority of drivers."
What's Hot
• Exquisite refinement
• Abundant conveniences
• User-friendly demeanor
What's Not
• Stodgy design
• Greasy limit handling
• Overprotective electronic stability nanny
What's Hot
• Modern styling
• Roomy and sophisticated cabin
• Outstanding handling
What's Not
• Weight-constrained acceleration
• Subpar navigation system
• Front cupholder too shallow
![](https://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0409_class44_l.jpg)
![](https://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0409_class28_l.jpg)
![](https://motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/112_0409_class37_z.jpg)
Last edited by zam2000; 09-02-2005 at 12:48 PM.
#141
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Notice in those pics how Lexus copies the lines of the Mercedes.
I guess this comparison is similar to someone looking to buy a watch. You can have the Rolex or you can have the Seiko. Both are great watches. The Seiko will most likely require much less maintenance and will keep better time than the Rolex. However, what watch would you want on your wrist. Most will choose the Seiko for dependability and price but those that want some exclusivity and history will choose the Rolex.
I guess this comparison is similar to someone looking to buy a watch. You can have the Rolex or you can have the Seiko. Both are great watches. The Seiko will most likely require much less maintenance and will keep better time than the Rolex. However, what watch would you want on your wrist. Most will choose the Seiko for dependability and price but those that want some exclusivity and history will choose the Rolex.
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by BlownV8
Notice in those pics how Lexus copies the lines of the Mercedes.
I guess this comparison is similar to someone looking to buy a watch. You can have the Rolex or you can have the Seiko. Both are great watches. The Seiko will most likely require much less maintenance and will keep better time than the Rolex. However, what watch would you want on your wrist. Most will choose the Seiko for dependability and price but those that want some exclusivity and history will choose the Rolex.
I guess this comparison is similar to someone looking to buy a watch. You can have the Rolex or you can have the Seiko. Both are great watches. The Seiko will most likely require much less maintenance and will keep better time than the Rolex. However, what watch would you want on your wrist. Most will choose the Seiko for dependability and price but those that want some exclusivity and history will choose the Rolex.
I have used that watch analogy a lot.. it works.
Except I usually compare Timex to Patek Philippe, since my opinion of Rolex is one grade above a Seiko... and several below a Patek, or Audemars Piguet.
Granted.. it's probably more appropriate to state:
Timex=Honda
Seiko=Lexus
Rolex=MB
Patek/AP=Roll Royce
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Mercedes all the way!
heh, interesting comparo regarding the watches - in fact i did something similar a year or so ago, if anyone remembers :P
actually, IMO seiko is getting very, very good indeed - i have the Arctura and it really is stylish AND reliable -- although there are niggling issues like the strap scratching too easily -- the rice cars are getting better too. i almost can't believe it but i rather like the GS exterior -- except the rear end which looks far too cheap. it's no E-class, yet, but the japs are catching up very, very fast.
having said that, over the years i've really come to realise it's very much a case of "to each his own". my uncle drives nothing but lexi, while i studiously avoid anything with toyota connections. and his lexus has been in the shop much more than my W211 has -- although my W220 came with some faults upon delivery
so i seriously doubt the quality thing, especially the long-term quality.
anyway, good luck, rjm, with the lexus. hope to see you back here driving REAL cars again lol just kidding :P
actually, IMO seiko is getting very, very good indeed - i have the Arctura and it really is stylish AND reliable -- although there are niggling issues like the strap scratching too easily -- the rice cars are getting better too. i almost can't believe it but i rather like the GS exterior -- except the rear end which looks far too cheap. it's no E-class, yet, but the japs are catching up very, very fast.
having said that, over the years i've really come to realise it's very much a case of "to each his own". my uncle drives nothing but lexi, while i studiously avoid anything with toyota connections. and his lexus has been in the shop much more than my W211 has -- although my W220 came with some faults upon delivery
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
anyway, good luck, rjm, with the lexus. hope to see you back here driving REAL cars again lol just kidding :P
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by PHXATC
Check this out...I just bought a 2002 GS300 Lexus.
Still have the Benz.
Flame suit on.![drive](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/driving.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Still have the Benz.
Flame suit on.
![drive](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/driving.gif)
You need to write a full length, in depth review on a seperate thread comparing the GS to the E.. workmanship, handling, etc..
that would be nice..
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Originally Posted by BlownV8
I guess this comparison is similar to someone looking to buy a watch. You can have the Rolex or you can have the Seiko. Both are great watches. The Seiko will most likely require much less maintenance and will keep better time than the Rolex. However, what watch would you want on your wrist. Most will choose the Seiko for dependability and price but those that want some exclusivity and history will choose the Rolex.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
That is a great analogy. It is amazing to me how many people are willing to pay $20,000 extra for a $20 3-Pointed Star on their hood. I'll take the watch that "will most likely require much less maintenace and will keep better time." ![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
But go hold a Rolex in your hands, then walk over (if the store sells them) and hold a top of the line Seiko... and repeat that post again with a straight face. :v
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Originally Posted by CE750
You need to write a full length, in depth review on a seperate thread comparing the GS to the E.. workmanship, handling, etc..
that would be nice..
that would be nice..
I will after a few weeks of driving the GS.......and assuming I'd be able to pry the MBZ away from my wife's hands for a 5 minute unsupervised drive.
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
BTW, I just got your PM........D'OH.
![beat](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/beat.gif)
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by PHXATC
I will after a few weeks of driving the GS.......and assuming I'd be able to pry the MBZ away from my wife's hands for a 5 minute unsupervised drive.
BTW, I just got your PM........D'OH.
Both my days off for the rest of the school year are locked up. I'm volunteering at my daughter's school from 11:00 to 3:15. I never knew school lunches looked so gross...I bring my own and all the kids want my lunch. I have to swat them away. ![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
BTW, I just got your PM........D'OH.
![beat](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/beat.gif)
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
no prob... we met and chatted over lunch a bit, you didn't miss anything.. keep us posted if you do the comparison.
#150
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Originally Posted by CE750
But go hold a Rolex in your hands, then walk over (if the store sells them) and hold a top of the line Seiko... and repeat that post again with a straight face. :v
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)