JohnAMG

You are correct. It is still quite confusing. Fortunately the GX doesn't ride like the 4Runner. I guess that is why there is a premium over the Toyota conterpart.

John

CE750

no prob man, to each his own, I'm just not a big fan of Rice, never have been... I just don't like the whole branding philosophy behind the upscale Japanese cars either. I mean these "brands" were just suddenly invented from thin air when the Japanese decided they wanted to copy the Germans/other Europeans and sell "fine cars", but up until then their cars were crappy little econoboxes. I agree, in many ways they've outdone the Germans (reliability, and efficiency being two) but they lack soul and curb appeal (for a lack of a better description), and they're not priced so much less, as to make a case for them being a bargain.

I mean, It's absurd for me when I see the obvious similarities of some Toyota's and Lexus... as well as Honda / Acura's.. but yet I have to call it a "Lexus".. When MB starts to use Chrysler platforms, I'll call those Chryslers too!

Just call it a Toyota... it's like the whole Lincoln/Ford thing... its a FORD! Lincoln hasn't made their own cars since the 1930's!

vraa

Yep, that KDSS actually works We have a (pink?) GX470 somewhere and it handles dutifully on road, and off.

PHXATC

That's it? 369 ft/lbs of torque?


My wife drives a truck with over 750 dynoe'd rear wheel ft/lbs of torque! That's a girl truck too.

CE750

369 is stock figure.. I've got Renntech numbers closer to 420... and for a 4000 lb vehicle... well.. let's just say it's brisk..

750's rear wheel = about 1000 ft/lbs... that's quite a bit.

ThemisN

My previous car having been a 98 GS400..I can maybe be a bit more objective.
At the time, the GS400 was the fastest automatic sedan in the world. Have they updated the engine much since? No. HAve they offered a more powerful version? nope. Thats why I bought my E55. Lexus, while now charging 12 grand more for the same exact car up to this year, had not offered more. I had interior squeaks, I had "oh-sh*t" handles popping, but that was about it.

The car, while having 300 hp, handled OK..but not that great. The lexus was mostly trouble free except for the stuff I mentioned above, but have you any idea what I spent on maintenance? Most services were over $800, with the cheapest being around $450. That was with a "trouble-free" car. My E55 services are cheaper than that and are less frequent.
In the end, I wanted a car that had a bit more soul, a bunch more *****. The LS, being 27 years old, would never be an option for me, and in any case, I find the styling very uninspiring. I also find the interior of my E more luxurious than Lexus, which many tout as being better.

If lexus had offered a 500 hp version of the E55, at 10 grand cheaper, I mightve thought about it, but I prob still wouldve gone with the E55. Now if it also had AWD for that price..then maybe we're talking. Overrall, there is nothing wrong with the lex..but when you want that little bit extra something, Lexus isn't the one offering it.

zam2000

Same here, my GS300 was the most reliable car I've ever owned (Nissan, Toyota, Lexus, BMW, and Benz). But among the car I've got since got out of college 9 years ago, it's also the most boring car. Needless to say, I gave it to my dad, and he's happy with it. No problem whatsoever.

I don't think anyone question Lexus reliability. Any car/brand could have problem, but generally speaking, Lexus have less problem than German rivals. Lexus maintenence, however, is often more costly than BMW and Mercedes. You still have to change timing belt !!!, These things don't even exist in Benz. And anyone know what happen when the belt broke.

Have anyone read the latest Car & Drivers ? The new IS350, with newly design V6 engine, smoke every car in its class with 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, on the track. However, on lane change acceleration & handling (more like what we're doing every day), it ranks bottom. This probably enough to tell about why people & magazine complain that Lexus lack soul.

The look & feel, both interior and exterior, is subjective & personal preference, so I can't comment here.

Btw, not only the GS not adding anything while price is raising year after year, they took out the steering wheel sequential ship (like F1 shifting on the steering wheel, really cool). Talking about less car for more money.

At least the 2004 E320 that I bought new cost LESS than the new 1995 E320, my first Benz. And that's even before adjust for inflation.

CE750

We got a separate discussion started on this again over at W211... go there and repost.

2000 CLK 320

although benz electirc quality has plummeted, there is no subsititude in the feeling u get when you riding 80 + on the freeway blowing by lexos smooothlyyyy

rjm

You are so dreaming!

ThemisN

Explain why he is dreaming? My GS was very solid at high speeds...i even caught myself onetime going over 100 with family in the car and I had no clue I was going even over 80. The E55 is even better at being in control at high speeds, and im sure the E500 isnt too different.

myfirstbenz

The Benz's will always hold a place in my heart for saftey, hands down over any other car, these things weigh more and it is for a damn good reason, that metal will save your life, unlike those cheap jap cars not matter how smooth or not. My doors still shut like a benz when my car flipped then slid down the highway, I walked away with not a scratch. A lexus feels like a toyota, but more expensive.

benzboy

Mercedes are for those who like to DRIVE. Lexus are for those who like to RIDE...RIDE ON...

Dema

Very good notice. Completely agree. I'd add only RIDE NOT TOO FAST

ProV1

umm.. i beg to differ. yes MBs are great cars to own but driving dynamics/razor-sharp handling is not their forte. Our family owns many MBs including my 97 E420, 96 E320, 03 E500 Sport, and 2 03 SLK320s. Going at 155 on the autobahn yes, but carving up mountain roads i don't think so. Go drive a BMW with the sport or ///M-tuned suspension and let's talk about driving dynamics.

Dema

I think he meant something different under driving. I own Z4 sport, so I think it's quilified to be compared. Benz is a compromise between cushy ride and crazy driving.

Richard / E320

rjm:

"By the way, so far I have ZERO defects or problems with this car."

I can't agree with that: isn't the 'exterior' a defect? I know it's reliable and quick but come on; could the exterior be anymore plain vanilla?

Glad you’re happy with your choice, as anyone who just bought any new car would be. It's not like people spend tens of the thousands of dollars and then admit they made a mistake. (And I’m not saying that you made a mistake, just stating simple human behavior.) In fact, for some reason they usually make numerous posts in other manufacturers forums, telling us how great their new car is. Okay, I'm convinced, but a Lexus just doesn't do it for me, and that's okay, we'll both live...

2nd Benz

Interestingly enough, a survey on the clublexus site asks lexus owners what sedan they would perfer & 74% responded MB (S550, or AMG), I'm not knocking Lexus but their own survey ought to tell you something!!!

vraa

That they are open minded?

Check my threads started on this site, you'll see I just had a thread that was criticising the LS460l pretty heavily.

One thing you'll find on this site (especially on this site) is that there are plenty of folks that are brand loyal. They don't see beyond Mercedes. That's not as true on other sites (but it does correlate to how much money you have interestingly, a case example being the LS460 forums on Clublexus).

OldNate

Honestly, lexus cars are way better than mercedes. Mercedes are by far overated. Lexus cars are like #1 in reliability. You are making no mistake switching to lexus no matter what anyone here thinks. You are making a smart move and a practical move.

The only difference I see between a lexus and a mercedes is that Lexus' all look like toyotas. I can never even tell the difference. I'm more into looks then reliability but as I get older, I'm sure I will make the move to lexus.

vraa

LOL, 590lb-ft torque is not over-rated...

OldNate

Mercedes are not the only cars that have that. They aren't really performance cars either, I still wonder why people try to race them. They may have big engines, and a lot of power. In reality, they are a tank. You don't race tanks.

Alexbenz

i just bought a lexus for my daily driver and gotta say a lexus and mercedes are far apart....

the lexus is confortable but then again the benz is moded and not in stock form....so telling the different between the 2 would be harder but nothing wrong with lexus

fju2112

The reason more features came standard on the LS430 is that it's more akin to the S-class than the E-class. Sorry if that thought has already been shared; I'm being lazy in not reading all 4 pages of this thread. Comparing an E to an LS isn't really fair in terms of standard features. I haven't driven the LS yet, so I can't agree or disagree w/ your decision, but my mother has a W211...I think the analog clock adds some class, the seats are not "rock hard" - they are simply firm and better suited for real driving than that of a Lincoln Town Car (couch on wheels, etc.). I also kind of like the center armrest, and how it's split in two...great flow, in my opinion, from the navi screen all the way back to the back of the armrest.

Again, just my opinions, and I haven't been in an LS430. Of course our W210's aren't perfect rides. When my E430 was totaled, I was on the fence between an E320 4matic and an Audi S4. The only reason I didn't go with the S4 is that there are probably going to be kids on the way within a couple of years and i needed a long-term investment with a bigger back seat, not "just" a fun sports car (yet). I kind of wish there were more A6 4.2's or S6's available, but regardless...I also drove an A8 that was incredible, but really loved the E-class and couldn't say no to it in the end.

Also, the E-class W210 came out in 1996. It's likely the LS430 that's currently out there (if you bought or leased new) is the brand new one or wasn't around nearly that long if it's the generation prior...that kind of leapfrogging happens often in the industry (new camry & altima are out now, for example, and when the new accord comes out, people will say the camry looks dated, etc.)

fju2112

That may not be what he meant. It doesn't have to handle ridiculously well as a sedan - by drive, maybe that's exactly what he meant; how it feels at highway speeds. While Benzes are quiet and luxurious, one also feels the power of the engine, feels the torque kick in between 75 and 90mph when accelerating, etc. That's what I took it to mean, but that's based on my own experience...

Plus, I'll point out again that we all have to remember this car (w210) came out in 1996...it's a design that's nearly 12 years old.