Ecu Performance Question
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e-klass
Ecu Performance Question
I bumped into a guy yesterday. He was all telling me he can program any mercedes ecu. Power increase is about 30hp. Im like are you sure? He is like I drive a ml500 I did it to mine. What risk is involved reprogramming the ECU? He was also saying the car is made to run 89 gas. Im like its suppose to be premium, he says no. So can someone make a suggestion? He is charging 500$ and I can get it dynoed after to see If i get performance gains. Let me know your thoughts. THANKS!
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From: SoCal OC
S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
30hp is too much. All reputatable chipper out there (RennTech, Powerchip, Upsolute, SpeedTunningUSA) all could do 20hp and 20 ft-p & about 10% gain in gas mileage. Anything more than that, and the setting is likey to ruin the catalytic conv or header in the long run & bad gas mileage (program engine to run rich)
He's right that the car is OEM tuned to run worst-type gasoline, and manufacture recommend high octain gas for longivity & correct timing of the engine, but since they can't enforce it, they have to buffer the engine setting.
It's true that anyone can program an ECU. For most German cars, it's just a 256K-1M Intel chip, and they not that hard to modify & program (Japanese cars use Hitachi chip, a bit harder to reprogram). But you might want to go w/ a company/party who have done a lot of research on this & good reputation of customer service. Not to mention that most good chipper offer money back warranty, and can restore your ECU back to OEM setting if you need to later on. Not some Joe on the street.
I'm having Upsolute working on my car ECU ($400). All program is done at the company headquarter in Austria, and installation is at company Cali rep in Chino Hill. Should be done by end of next week. Powerchip, RennTech, and SpeedTunningUSA are good too.
Price range $300-1200, depend on chipper. Ironically, I wouldn't be too suprise if they all come out w/ similar ECU settting. It's a multi-dimension array of engine parameters. And all eventually plug the setting into emulator to analyze power curve.
If you want Nascar of F1 racing, you could see that sometime they chip the ECU right on the spot w/ laptop, due to change in driving condition & weather.
He's right that the car is OEM tuned to run worst-type gasoline, and manufacture recommend high octain gas for longivity & correct timing of the engine, but since they can't enforce it, they have to buffer the engine setting.
It's true that anyone can program an ECU. For most German cars, it's just a 256K-1M Intel chip, and they not that hard to modify & program (Japanese cars use Hitachi chip, a bit harder to reprogram). But you might want to go w/ a company/party who have done a lot of research on this & good reputation of customer service. Not to mention that most good chipper offer money back warranty, and can restore your ECU back to OEM setting if you need to later on. Not some Joe on the street.
I'm having Upsolute working on my car ECU ($400). All program is done at the company headquarter in Austria, and installation is at company Cali rep in Chino Hill. Should be done by end of next week. Powerchip, RennTech, and SpeedTunningUSA are good too.
Price range $300-1200, depend on chipper. Ironically, I wouldn't be too suprise if they all come out w/ similar ECU settting. It's a multi-dimension array of engine parameters. And all eventually plug the setting into emulator to analyze power curve.
If you want Nascar of F1 racing, you could see that sometime they chip the ECU right on the spot w/ laptop, due to change in driving condition & weather.
Originally Posted by phatstyles
I bumped into a guy yesterday. He was all telling me he can program any mercedes ecu. Power increase is about 30hp. Im like are you sure? He is like I drive a ml500 I did it to mine. What risk is involved reprogramming the ECU? He was also saying the car is made to run 89 gas. Im like its suppose to be premium, he says no. So can someone make a suggestion? He is charging 500$ and I can get it dynoed after to see If i get performance gains. Let me know your thoughts. THANKS!
Last edited by zam2000; Aug 20, 2005 at 03:42 PM.
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E320
Originally Posted by phatstyles
Well. 400$ sounds like a deal. Does that include shipping? Let me know how the ecu goes. thanks for the response.
Last edited by Ben'z; Aug 21, 2005 at 05:20 AM.
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From: LA/OC
E320
Originally Posted by phatstyles
I bumped into a guy yesterday. He was all telling me he can program any mercedes ecu. Power increase is about 30hp. Im like are you sure? He is like I drive a ml500 I did it to mine. What risk is involved reprogramming the ECU? He was also saying the car is made to run 89 gas. Im like its suppose to be premium, he says no. So can someone make a suggestion? He is charging 500$ and I can get it dynoed after to see If i get performance gains. Let me know your thoughts. THANKS!
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...hlight=EuroRev
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From: Sydney, Australia
W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by phatstyles
I bumped into a guy yesterday. He was all telling me he can program any mercedes ecu. Power increase is about 30hp. Im like are you sure? He is like I drive a ml500 I did it to mine. What risk is involved reprogramming the ECU? He was also saying the car is made to run 89 gas. Im like its suppose to be premium, he says no. So can someone make a suggestion? He is charging 500$ and I can get it dynoed after to see If i get performance gains. Let me know your thoughts. THANKS!
- FUEL RON
- fuel load increased
- ignition advanced
My friend does it all the time to new cars including some of the AMG types and even finds more punch in those cars. He does it for free to client cars but there are plenty of people out there that charge money for it.
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W210, W220, W163, W164, C6
I've tried several software tuners on my MBs, and yet Powerchip provided the most gains on the dynojet (9-11rwhp). As for streetabilty, the PC unit felt much more responsive at part-throttle...more kills from stoplight to stoplight 
As for the RBTech software tune and the Upsolute chip...0 gains on the dyno, my butt-dyno couldn't tell the difference even after the extended miles for adaptation! Furthermore, Lanny R. the So Cal Upsolute rep has never returned my emails or phone calls. Wayne/Joel at Powerchip provides the best customer service thus far.
Side note: During the times my chipped cars were being service at various So Cal MB dealers on certain ocassions the shop-foreman brought to my attention that the ME Control unit was tampered with...it is unfortunate that their are no flashloader device for the MB market yet. Just be aware and befriend your local service advisor/shop foreman.
If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find my writeup regarding my experiences with these software tuners.
As for the RBTech software tune and the Upsolute chip...0 gains on the dyno, my butt-dyno couldn't tell the difference even after the extended miles for adaptation! Furthermore, Lanny R. the So Cal Upsolute rep has never returned my emails or phone calls. Wayne/Joel at Powerchip provides the best customer service thus far.
Side note: During the times my chipped cars were being service at various So Cal MB dealers on certain ocassions the shop-foreman brought to my attention that the ME Control unit was tampered with...it is unfortunate that their are no flashloader device for the MB market yet. Just be aware and befriend your local service advisor/shop foreman.
If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find my writeup regarding my experiences with these software tuners.
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From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally Posted by benzmodz
Probably putting the car on a Benz Diagnostic and setting the following
- FUEL RON
- fuel load increased
- ignition advanced
My friend does it all the time to new cars including some of the AMG types and even finds more punch in those cars. He does it for free to client cars but there are plenty of people out there that charge money for it.
- FUEL RON
- fuel load increased
- ignition advanced
My friend does it all the time to new cars including some of the AMG types and even finds more punch in those cars. He does it for free to client cars but there are plenty of people out there that charge money for it.
PowerChip in both my cars and even though they claim 19HP, the mid range punch is so strong that I can spin the tires HARD every time on a 2-1 downshift.
From what I've read here, you get what you pay for in ECU re-programming.
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Originally Posted by E55AMG99
I believe it has been discussed here before that these settings do nothing for North American cars.
PowerChip in both my cars and even though they claim 19HP, the mid range punch is so strong that I can spin the tires HARD every time on a 2-1 downshift.
From what I've read here, you get what you pay for in ECU re-programming.
PowerChip in both my cars and even though they claim 19HP, the mid range punch is so strong that I can spin the tires HARD every time on a 2-1 downshift.
From what I've read here, you get what you pay for in ECU re-programming.
It's not about all the hp you gain.
It's about the shifting patterns or whatever you want to call it. You get a serious new buttdyno feel
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From: Seattle WA
99 E320
July European Cars has nice article with good insight into ECU modding.
Nothing evaluating modders, rather the theory of, considerations and
headaches into ECU performance enhancing changes. Email me and I'll
send - 2.5mb PDF.
Nothing evaluating modders, rather the theory of, considerations and
headaches into ECU performance enhancing changes. Email me and I'll
send - 2.5mb PDF.
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From: SFV, Ca.
W210, W220, W163, W164, C6
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
You do.
It's not about all the hp you gain.
It's about the shifting patterns or whatever you want to call it. You get a serious new buttdyno feel
It's not about all the hp you gain.
It's about the shifting patterns or whatever you want to call it. You get a serious new buttdyno feel
raymond g: I too have that issue laying around "Chip Tuning 101", good fundamental information and nice showing from Powerchip & Evosport.
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If you guys can, e-mail me whatever yall have to ricky.agrawal@gmail.com
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From: SoCal OC
S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
I haven't paid Upsolute (they're working on software for my car, based from the ECU image that they read last week).
Based from what I have read so far, wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute and go with Powerchip. The only reason I went with Upsolute is based from the company claim that most chipper provide the same setting & gain, and for that, of course, I want the cheapest (and local). SpeedTuning would have been fine too, except that I don't want to ship my ECU cross country.
Wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute deal, haven't paid them yet, as they still working on my car ECU image. If gain is the same, then of cours I want the best (cheapest & most convenient) deal. However, if as you said, buttdyno gain is based on how much you paid, then I don't mind the extra cost from Powerchip.
Another thing that concern my is trying to get a hold of Lanny. On the day for my appointment to see him, then I could get a hold of him everytime I tried to call him (getting lost, change appointment time). However, on days before and after that (when I want to ask if he could flash modded image into new chip, as I want to keep my OEM chip), always got into his voicemail. Emailed him, but haven't received reply
Since Upsolute offer money back guarantee, if I just call off the deal, it would be the same too, correct ? Will search the forum archive, and probably go with PC.
Based from your buttdyno gain, do you think the chip worth it ?
Based from what I have read so far, wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute and go with Powerchip. The only reason I went with Upsolute is based from the company claim that most chipper provide the same setting & gain, and for that, of course, I want the cheapest (and local). SpeedTuning would have been fine too, except that I don't want to ship my ECU cross country.
Wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute deal, haven't paid them yet, as they still working on my car ECU image. If gain is the same, then of cours I want the best (cheapest & most convenient) deal. However, if as you said, buttdyno gain is based on how much you paid, then I don't mind the extra cost from Powerchip.
Another thing that concern my is trying to get a hold of Lanny. On the day for my appointment to see him, then I could get a hold of him everytime I tried to call him (getting lost, change appointment time). However, on days before and after that (when I want to ask if he could flash modded image into new chip, as I want to keep my OEM chip), always got into his voicemail. Emailed him, but haven't received reply
Since Upsolute offer money back guarantee, if I just call off the deal, it would be the same too, correct ? Will search the forum archive, and probably go with PC.
Based from your buttdyno gain, do you think the chip worth it ?
Originally Posted by Richard023
I've tried several software tuners on my MBs, and yet Powerchip provided the most gains on the dynojet (9-11rwhp). As for streetabilty, the PC unit felt much more responsive at part-throttle...more kills from stoplight to stoplight
As for the RBTech software tune and the Upsolute chip...0 gains on the dyno, my butt-dyno couldn't tell the difference even after the extended miles for adaptation! Furthermore, Lanny R. the So Cal Upsolute rep has never returned my emails or phone calls. Wayne/Joel at Powerchip provides the best customer service thus far.
Side note: During the times my chipped cars were being service at various So Cal MB dealers on certain ocassions the shop-foreman brought to my attention that the ME Control unit was tampered with...it is unfortunate that their are no flashloader device for the MB market yet. Just be aware and befriend your local service advisor/shop foreman.
If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find my writeup regarding my experiences with these software tuners.
As for the RBTech software tune and the Upsolute chip...0 gains on the dyno, my butt-dyno couldn't tell the difference even after the extended miles for adaptation! Furthermore, Lanny R. the So Cal Upsolute rep has never returned my emails or phone calls. Wayne/Joel at Powerchip provides the best customer service thus far.
Side note: During the times my chipped cars were being service at various So Cal MB dealers on certain ocassions the shop-foreman brought to my attention that the ME Control unit was tampered with...it is unfortunate that their are no flashloader device for the MB market yet. Just be aware and befriend your local service advisor/shop foreman.
If you do a search, I'm sure you'll find my writeup regarding my experiences with these software tuners.
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From: SFV, Ca.
W210, W220, W163, W164, C6
Originally Posted by zam2000
I haven't paid Upsolute (they're working on software for my car, based from the ECU image that they read last week).
Based from what I have read so far, wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute and go with Powerchip. The only reason I went with Upsolute is based from the company claim that most chipper provide the same setting & gain, and for that, of course, I want the cheapest (and local). SpeedTuning would have been fine too, except that I don't want to ship my ECU cross country.
Wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute deal, haven't paid them yet, as they still working on my car ECU image. If gain is the same, then of cours I want the best (cheapest & most convenient) deal. However, if as you said, buttdyno gain is based on how much you paid, then I don't mind the extra cost from Powerchip.
Another thing that concern my is trying to get a hold of Lanny. On the day for my appointment to see him, then I could get a hold of him everytime I tried to call him (getting lost, change appointment time). However, on days before and after that (when I want to ask if he could flash modded image into new chip, as I want to keep my OEM chip), always got into his voicemail. Emailed him, but haven't received reply
Since Upsolute offer money back guarantee, if I just call off the deal, it would be the same too, correct ? Will search the forum archive, and probably go with PC.
Based from your buttdyno gain, do you think the chip worth it ?
Based from what I have read so far, wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute and go with Powerchip. The only reason I went with Upsolute is based from the company claim that most chipper provide the same setting & gain, and for that, of course, I want the cheapest (and local). SpeedTuning would have been fine too, except that I don't want to ship my ECU cross country.
Wonder if I should have canceled the Upsolute deal, haven't paid them yet, as they still working on my car ECU image. If gain is the same, then of cours I want the best (cheapest & most convenient) deal. However, if as you said, buttdyno gain is based on how much you paid, then I don't mind the extra cost from Powerchip.
Another thing that concern my is trying to get a hold of Lanny. On the day for my appointment to see him, then I could get a hold of him everytime I tried to call him (getting lost, change appointment time). However, on days before and after that (when I want to ask if he could flash modded image into new chip, as I want to keep my OEM chip), always got into his voicemail. Emailed him, but haven't received reply
Since Upsolute offer money back guarantee, if I just call off the deal, it would be the same too, correct ? Will search the forum archive, and probably go with PC.
Based from your buttdyno gain, do you think the chip worth it ?
Take some time to do more research if your uncertain, I suggest you check the forum archives (Vadim@Evosport posted a few PC graphs) and also view thru the BMW M5 forum, plenty of testimonial/dyno related info regarding the Powerchip firmware. My experiences with Powerchip have been outstanding and if need be I have contacted Wayne Besanko (PC's Head-man) several times via cell or email, he's a great guy to speak with.
I've given up on Lanny R. years ago, furthermore, I contact Rene at their head office in NC...well he wasn't much help. The only reason I purchased the Upsolute cuz 4-5 years ago the aftermarket software tuning was very limited and yes the $300 seemed like a bargain price.
"Based on your butt-dyno gain, do you think the chip worth it" - The Upsolute chip...NO! The Powerchip...is worth trying out! I'm not sure what your performance goals are, but thru my experiences the seat-of-the-pants thrill with a tuned chip is short term.
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S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
Benz,
I'll sign up, anyone else ? I think we'll need at least 5 to get a group deal buy (ususally 20% off)
Rich
Thanks for your info. I'm still trying to go through the forum archive, trying to sort thing out. Raymond sent me the article. If I have time today, I'll go through it couple times too
I'll sign up, anyone else ? I think we'll need at least 5 to get a group deal buy (ususally 20% off)
Rich
Thanks for your info. I'm still trying to go through the forum archive, trying to sort thing out. Raymond sent me the article. If I have time today, I'll go through it couple times too
Originally Posted by Ben'z
Maybe someone should start a group buy from PC... :p
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From: NY
2014 E550 4matic,, sold 2012 E 350 4matic,,sold 2010 e350 4w,sold 2002 e320 se
My .02 cents,,,Powerchip is giving me about 10-15% better mileage,,,important these days.Power gains,,,never dyno-ed it,but 20-30 HP gain seems to be on the low end of what it feels like.
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From: Music City
2010 E63 AMG, 2000 E430 Sport, Dodge Charger SRT8
I also have the PowerChip 93 in my E430. Did see a pretty decent increase in fuel mileage, maybe a little more torque and hp. Customer service is great. Really want to get it on a dyno. It is my understanding that PC does NOT alter transmission shifting. Is it worth the money? Hmmmmmm.............
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From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally Posted by MikeyE430
..... It is my understanding that PC does NOT alter transmission shifting.........
Per request, they can raise the 1-2 shift a couple hundred RPM. On my E55, MB had it shifting at 5800. After PC, it now shifts at 6000 like it does in every other gear.
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From: SoCal OC
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Does that mean beside the gas mileage gain, there's not much gain in hp/torque ?
Originally Posted by stemags
but 20-30 HP gain seems to be on the low end of what it feels like.
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From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
I think they claimed 19hp for my E55. Like others have said, it "feels" stronger than that. I've never confirmed it but it did drop .1-.2 off my 0-60 times. I measured it before and after 200 miles on the upgrade on the same stretch of road. Granted, I had mixed 5 gallons of 100 octane 76 in the tank but it was a solid gain regardless. I can click off 4.9 easily now when 5.0 was almost impossible before the upgrade. Also, the car pulls a lot harder in the middle RPM range. 2-1 full throttle downshifts are now scary with the ESP off. Full on tire spin into second from 25MPH!
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From: Music City
2010 E63 AMG, 2000 E430 Sport, Dodge Charger SRT8
Personally, I think it provides maybe 20 hp or so on my car and certainly not 30. I think they advertise a 24 hp increase on an E430. Maybe. Again, wish I had dynoed it stock to have a comparison. It is not the HUGE increase that a chip can do to, say, a turbo car. Chips changed my Porsche 944 turbo like night and day. It was waaaaaaaaay faster than stock. Just not sure it is worth the $$$ for the Benz. Would I do it again? Lemme think about it............
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From: NY
2014 E550 4matic,, sold 2012 E 350 4matic,,sold 2010 e350 4w,sold 2002 e320 se
Originally Posted by zam2000
Does that mean beside the gas mileage gain, there's not much gain in hp/torque ?
