Cocca

ok. 1st big snow storm here and my 4-matic was very disappointing going up one medium and one big hill that I go up. I don't get it.

1st the ESP was messing everything up - basically, it put me at a stand-still.
Then, when I switched it off I was slippin' and slidin', but making more progress than with ESP on.

I'm running Pirelli PZero Nero Mud & Snow tires and I don't think that's the problem.

I am really pissed and not at all impressed w/this 35/65 torque split front to back. Why not just let the center diff distribute the torque where it's needed?

M-B may have actually under engineered this one.

My last car was a Volvo S60AWD w/the center diff that put torque wherever the hell it was needed. That car plowed up those same hills w/alot more snow!!!!

Is the only solution to spend more $$$ on snow tires?

Parrot of Doom

I think you need some of this:

sosh

Thats interesting as I found the W210 4matic that I had was excellent and I live in a hilly area. The W211 is just as good. Neither was quite as good as my ML but I did not expect them to be. Perhaps it is your tires. My 210 had Michelins and the 211 has Continentals. I have never had to turn my ESP off except when charging thru a drift coming into my own driveway.

lexrex

What makes you think your tires aren't the problem? The "mud & snow" designation only means that the tires are all-season as opposed to summer-only tires. It tells you nothing about their traction in snow. True snow-capable tires are branded with the snowflake/mountain symbol.

I have the same tires and just drove home in snow. While they are acceptible in snow, they are slightly worse than my previous Michelin MXV4s (which also are nothing special). PZero Nero M&S ice traction is pretty lousy. Perhaps you were on ice.

Before you get upset with MB engineering, maybe should first learn how 4ETS works. Here is a good starting point. You are right that Mercedes engineered a 35/65 torque bias. In practice, however, that torque split only applies when no wheels are slipping. Once a wheel slips, the traction control brakes the spinning wheel, effectively redistributing the engine torque to the other wheels. See this article, particularly section #6, for more detailed explanation.

Unless your Volvo also had the Pirelli PZero Nero M&S tires, your comparison is useless. No AWD system can put more power to the ground than the amount of traction your tires can deliver. Just ask any 4Matic owner with tires decent in snow, and they'll tell you the W210 AWD is a beast in the winter.

ghaffar23

Those tires don't have enough cross-tread...I'm running Goodyear RS1's and they have excellent grip.

Cocca

i didn't realize that it worked that way. thought it was STUCK at 35/65
in theory, after reading the articles, almost 100% of torque can be sent to a single wheel. cool. but i'm thinking maybe not. if all wheels are slipping where does torque go?
i was on slush in New Jersey Friday morning. no ice, just slushy snow 4-5'' deep.

yes. the zero nero's stink in the snow. i see that now. the p6four seasons were much better.

slk55lvr

Since I have the same car and lived through the same snowstorm this Friday I can tell you it probably was the tires. The p-zero nero's ( i have them on too) are not very good riding over an ice pack. Put on some winter tires and you will not believe the difference. I decided to stick with my regular tires this year and use the Outback when it snows. If you want to see an UNBELEIVABLE car in any type of snow, try an outback with snow tires!

Cocca

do you think that the P6 four seasons are better than the PZero Nero in the snow???

if not, then the Volvo AWD must be better than the M-B 4-matic!!!

Bora20

I have 4 Dunlop Wintersport M3 tires on my E320 4Matic and I can go anywhere that my ML320 used to go with Dunlop Wintersport M2 tires, with the exception of really deep snow.

Sounds like you need some better tires. M+S tires are meant for 3 seasons only.

X72

The M+S designation is just a ratio of of how much open space is on the tire. It isn't a true winter test. Just like all the other posters have mentioned, there is no substiture for winter tires (they have the big snowflake on the sidewall). The money you spend on tires is really not that much in relation to total vehicle operating costs and to the cost of a nasty accident (which may have costs that can't be fixed with money).

Do yourself a favor. Browse www.tirerack.com and www.snowtire.info

I put on some Dunlop WinterSport M2's for a cross-country drive to Colorado, Utah, and New Mexico 2 years ago. The traction was great on my 2-wheel drive car.

You also didn't tell us how old your current tires are (how much tread depth do they have left?). All-season tires are a compromise solution that is "acceptable" in many situations, just not in yours. Besides, think about this; my 2 wheel drive car with winter tires will outbrake, by a long margin, your fancy 4-matic torque splitting system if you have your likely have worn out M+S tires on the car. Why, I have better tires than you do and contact patch is what matters! Unleash the full potential of 4-matic with proper tires!

Look at the tire reviews and find the right fit for your conditions. If I were to buy tires now, I would get the M3 version because dry weather is an important factor to me.

William
2003 E320

Kev04C320

Very well said.

On my previous car (04 C320), I had the P Zero Nero M+S. I drove through two winters in south central Wisconsin. While the performance in slush and show was acceptable. Your car will not go anywhere in case of ice pack or going up a slope. I find that putting some heavy objects in the trunk did help though.

Currently, I have Bridgestone Blizzaks LM25 on my E55 and I drove it through the storm last Friday. I had no problem with traction and driving through deep snow. So, tires do make much of a difference.

smazur

I'll second the argument for tires... My E320 is rear wheel only and my blizzaks have gotten me from Boston to the ski house in Vermont in 5 winters of very nasty weather... Not setting any speed records mind you but the snow tires, rear wheel drive, and some extra weight in the back have me safely travelling past scores of SUV's spun out off the highway into the snowbanks...

In my opinion, next to snowtires, your best defense against a snowstorm in the winter is lowered expectations and common sense.

X72

Cocca, I would love to hear what you decide to do.

smazur's "lowered expectations and common sense" comment is right on the mark.

My prior post was pretty harsh on all-season tires. I have no personal experience with Nokian tires. But if you do not want to store a separate set of tires for whatever reason but still want an all-season tire suitable for true winter conditions, Nokian makes what they call an all-weather tire. Their website says it is the only all-season tire that carries the severe service "snowflake" emblem.
http://www.nokiantires.com/newsite/tires_popup.cfm?id=6
William
2003 E320

Cocca

I went with the Blizzak LM-25 V-rated snow tires. Man, what a difference. Thanks for the help.

oh, and why such a delay? well, i've been busy . . . . . . .