M112/M113 timing chain replacement - MBWorld.org Forums

Go Back  MBWorld.org Forums > Mercedes-Benz Sedans > E-Class (W210)
M112/M113 timing chain replacement > M112/M113 timing chain replacement
Notices
E-Class (W210) 1995-2002: E 200, E 220D, E 240, E 290TD, E 300TD, E 200, E 240, E 280, E 320, E 420, E 430 (Wagon, Touring, 4Matic)

M112/M113 timing chain replacement

Reply

 
 
Old 01-21-2006, 10:03 AM
  #1
Super Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 588
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
'98 E320 4Matic, '85 380SL
M112/M113 timing chain replacement

Does anyone know the replacement interval for the timing chain on the 3.2/4.3 M112/M113 motors?

The tensioner, guides and chains on the old M116/M117 V8s, which also had the double-row chain, needed replacement every 100K miles or so. Does this carry over to the newer V engines?
lexrex is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2006, 03:21 PM
  #2
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
MARK CUMMINS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 3,858
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
209/W210 Estate /W211 modded by MBENZNL
The 112/113 Engines have a spec for a stretched chain...No replacement data.
(IF) the 112/113 engines are like the 103/104s They will last a long long time..as I Have never replace a chain in a 103/104

The old style engines ..V8s had a single row chain..that was updated to a Double row chain...

Its not the chain that goes bad...either the chain tensioner or a broken chain rail
When they go it jumps time and bends valves
MARK CUMMINS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2010, 07:58 PM
  #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
E320
Timing Chain Question

I have a '98 E320 (112,000 miles) and a '99 E320 Wagon (150,000 miles). Both get synthetic oil, changed at 3000-5000 miles (since I've owned them anyway). I know the timing chains are known for long wear, but I'd really like to check stretch on them from time to time, but I don't know what the process is to do this check. I know this has probably been covered 100s of times so I apologize for the repetition, but I haven't had any luck finding the actual "how to" instructions in any searches.

Thanks a lot....The help is much appreciated.

John
john campbell is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2014, 08:29 AM
  #4
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
Heres what I found out.

MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 04:53 PM
  #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
Did you experienced any rattling?
What was the reason for the change?

Sorry for reviving an old thread, did not manage to find the answer by following Moutine posts.
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2017, 01:20 AM
  #6
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
Sorry. Yes it was rattling at idle. Specially when I gave a small nod to gas pedal. New chain and tensioner solved everythin.

I remember at the same summer I changed the chain to friends CLK430. 220k km driven. Chain was even more stretched. Almost 10mm or something.

Now I'm driveing 2005 CLK55 with 161k km on the clock and no rattling. Atleast not yet.
MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MouTine For This Useful Post:
cj_sharky (02-20-2017)
Old 06-27-2017, 06:00 PM
  #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
Do you recall the sound?
Did it sound like this?

I am having a similar rattle but after the oil change it got quieter.
It slowly starts to re-appear.
Increasing the rpm slightly with 1-200rpm and the noise disappears completely.
Not able to hear it even with a stethoscope.

I am having 183kkm, but i cannot be 100% sure on them.
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 01:15 AM
  #8
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
Your sounds way louder than mine did but could be the cam mic picking the noise diffirently. Go figure... Your sound is more repeated and mine was more like random rattling. But then all the symptons you told indicate chain or lifters.

Remove the multigroove drivebelt and run the engine for a few sec and listen if the sound is gone.
MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MouTine For This Useful Post:
cj_sharky (06-28-2017)
Old 06-28-2017, 03:22 AM
  #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
Did that. It is definitely from inside the engine.
The video is not mine, but the rattling has exactly the same sound signature. It is a bit louder that the rest of the engine.
Will start with the tensioner first.

Funny thing is that it it completely disappears when idle rpm is increased even with an extra 100-200rpm.
Do you know if the tensioner is a ratcheting type, the one that needs to be reset?
Or it is just a hydraulic helped by a spring to keep pressure during startup when oil pressure is low?
The new 5w40 oil helped a bit, as the sound was gone on the outside, it can only be heard with the stethoscope, or when engine is at high temperature.
On the old 5w30 oil the sound was always there.
Not sure if the new oil damps the chain slap, or it creates higher pressure and the tensioner keeps the chain more tightly on the guides.

I am hearing the noise on the lifting eye of the engine, and in the middle, near the oil filter case and above the crank pulley.
the zone near the oil pump chain is quiet.
What is your experience on this matter?

lifters can only be heard using a stethoscope they are quiet from outside, i could identify one or 2 with the 5w30 oil, but with the 5w40 they are quiet.
So i will leave them be.

Thanks for your inputs!
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 03:30 AM
  #10
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
Well... I would say it is the chain. Tensioner is just plain spring & oil pressure operated, rarely failing.

Just do it. Pull the new chain thru with the old one and then connect ends of the new chain. Fairly easy job but needs to be focus on and no hurry.
MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 05:06 AM
  #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
I found this a few months ago.
(Skip to 2:02 - i tried putting the direct link here but it does not work)
Does it look like an appropriate method to you?

Did you use a chain press device to lock the chain in a loop?
Or did you use a simple mountable lock similar to the ones used in bicycle chains?

I found out that Febi/Swag are Iwis partners/re-packagers so i would probably could go with them instead of an over expensive OE.
What brand did you use?

Kiittäen,
Serban

Last edited by cj_sharky; 06-28-2017 at 05:11 AM.
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 05:31 AM
  #12
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
The video looks valid. V8 engines has plain simple idler sprocket but V6 has blancing shaft behind the sprocket that sprocket drives. It is imporant that shaft is synced with cams and crank while pulling new chain thru.

Don't undo the plugs. Engine is harder to turn but compression actualy helps fightning back the valve sprig load that can easily jam the chain in "V-valley" where blancing shaft sprocket is located.

Yes for chain press. Locking type chain lock doesn't work. There is no room in plastic chain quides and tensiones pad to accept wider lock peace.

I ordered my chain and tensioner from MB so OEM parts.

Olkaa hyvä. =)

Last edited by MouTine; 06-28-2017 at 05:41 AM.
MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 06:26 AM
  #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
Ok then, i guess by pulling the new chain through there is no way that the balancer/cams/crank can go out of sync as long i will use covers to prevent the chain jumping off the sprockets, right?
The chain can't be that stretched so i won't get one link extra between any of the cams/balancer/rank.
From your pictures i barely see a link stretch on the whole length of the chain which should not cause any sync problems when feeding the new chain, right?
(No way of checking the sync as it would imply taking of the covers, which i would like to avoid.)

Can you also answer on how you connected back the chain? With master riveting link and a press tool or you just used a snap-on locking link?

Will probably do this in autumn and revert with pictures and details.
Sorry for bothering you with questions but i cannot aford to screw up on this one.
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 07:25 AM
  #14
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
No problem. I'm at work so I get payed. =)

Heres the picture of the chain tool I borrowed from a friend who works at motorcycle service shop.
Name:  S__1F621_zps03a89b8a.jpg
Views: 653
Size:  77.1 KB

The syncing issue I was refering just popped to mind couse I don't know is there room enougth chain to jump if jammed. Cylinder head valve spring load slap chain quite fastly into "V-valley" if you remove spark plugs. Just keep the plugs and keep the chain tight and move easily then you will be fine. If you have friend who could help feeding new chain and pulling the old one out while you are turning the engine whole job is much easyer.

Remember to remove the chain tensioner at begening. Hardest parts of the whole job is disconecting and re re-conecting points.
MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 12:16 PM
  #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
Why should i remove the tensioner?
Won't the chain jump without it while turning the engine by hand?

I was thinking if the chain will be caught in the sprocket in both ends (feeding end, and comming out end).
That's what those covers in the video are for, so the chain will not jump teeth and be kept on the sprocket on both ends.
I could additionally secure them with strong ties and move the chain one-two links at a time.
This way the tensioner would help keeping the chain in place and ensure it will not jump.

Does it sound like a good plan to you?

Is there any kind of ratcheting mechanism in the tensioner for M112/M113?
I think the video is for m271, but not 100% sure.
Does the m112 tensioner need resetting?

I will probably ask some bike expert to come to tie the chain so i won't risk anything.
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 01:33 PM
  #16
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
Tensioner attached you are not able to pull the end of the chain over correct tooth to connect ends together.

This is why you are cutting the chain and feeding it into engine at the same side where tensioner is. No need for tension.

M112 / 113 tensioner is pre-loaded with spring and oil pressure will do the rest. There is nothing you could set or turn.

Name:  S__91231_zpsb417dbcf.jpg
Views: 664
Size:  86.2 KB
Here.... I tryed without removeing the tensioner at first. But then zipties broke and I gave up. After removeing alternator and tensioner job became much easyer. I could let chain freely hang out from cylinder head. Weight of the chain kept it tight at crank sprocket.
MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 05:57 PM
  #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
Hmmm. I will definitely have to think about it.
I think the sprocket is the one keeping the new and old chain from spreading, as seen in the film that i posted.
Chain is holding from the teeth, the only thing required is holding it in place using strong slides.
If the chain does not jump, it should meet in the end or be at least near by.
Then I could loosen the temsioner a few turns to make the job easier an pull it so it will meet the other end.
I;m afraid that without the tensioner the chain will fall loose and unload itself from the crank.
I could take out the pulley, and put some chain bracket there to prevent it from falling, but it is kind of too much of a hustle.
Barely changed the pulley, seal and bolt a year ago, don;t want to do that job again.

I will probably sleep this one over and make things right.
Thanks again for your advice!

Last edited by cj_sharky; 06-28-2017 at 06:03 PM.
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 01:25 AM
  #18
Member
 
MouTine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 147
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
'04 SLK55
There is no room chain to jump in crank sprocket as long as chain will be runing on its own weight. When I was doing my friends 430 I even accidentaly droped end of the chain into oil pan. Then I just opened the lower pan and picked the chain and fed it again into right side cylinder head. Plastic chain quides do the job quite well and there no way you could mess the timing if you just keep feeding and pulling the chain.

Only place you could **ck up is the right side cam sprocket. If you loose the feeding side end into engine, then game over. You cannot reverse.
MouTine is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2017, 05:39 AM
  #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 25
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
W211 E240
I have replaced the tensioner, just to start with something, and because it is easy.
No effect. Old tensioner was as good as the new one. So 100E wasted.
So it is clear that if the noise is on the tight side of the chain, don't bother with the tensioner as the tensioner handles the untight side of the chain.
Note for the ones with the same problem.
https://youtu.be/TbuVNbdOgEU

Next would pe pulling a new chain, but probably in spring.
Politicians threathen us with new taxation policy and a new chain might not be required after all.

As a side note, if you do this operation you should also remove the regulator from the alternator and inspect the brushes and the rotor's collector.
It takes an extra 10 minutes but at least you know more about your old car.


@MouTine: is this the sound your engine was making?
And another question: how do you link the old chain with the new one? I guess you are using the master link only at the end, you don't rivet it multiple times. Right?
But then what do you use for securely attaching the chain with the old one?

Last edited by cj_sharky; 10-31-2017 at 02:48 PM. Reason: added video
cj_sharky is offline  
Reply With Quote
 
 
 

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
layzie12g
C63 AMG (W204)
73
11-06-2017 01:39 PM
PizzaQuixote
Mercedes Tech Talk
8
10-08-2017 08:01 PM
jakc
C Class (W205)
9
09-04-2015 11:50 PM
Leslielp
C Class (W205)
1
09-04-2015 01:47 AM
TMans
C-Class (W203)
3
09-02-2015 12:25 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:11 AM.


Copyright © 2001-2012 InternetBrands, Inc. / MBWorld.org. All Rights Reserved. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: