'98-'99-'00 differences?
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
1998 ML320
'98-'99-'00 differences?
I'm thinking about buying a 1998-2000 E320 or E430 (sedan). Are there any major differences between these model years, or is there a web site I can get this info from? Thanks in advance.
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Yes, there are fairly major differences in all those years. You can look on MBUSA.com under Starmark for some of the differences.
Some off the top of my head:
1998: phone is separate unit, CD changer is analog, stereo has exposed cassette slot
1999: phone controls integrated to stereo, cassette slot is hidden; CD changer is fibre optic hookup
2000: "model update" body receives changes including smaller headlights, greater slope to hood, one-piece plastic grill, taillights receive clear turn signal lens; smaller, curvier sideview mirrors with integrated turn signals; steering wheel controls of stereo/phone/etc.; teleaid included;
2001: change to rack & pinion steering
Hope that is helpful. Don't treat this list as conclusive.
-s-
Some off the top of my head:
1998: phone is separate unit, CD changer is analog, stereo has exposed cassette slot
1999: phone controls integrated to stereo, cassette slot is hidden; CD changer is fibre optic hookup
2000: "model update" body receives changes including smaller headlights, greater slope to hood, one-piece plastic grill, taillights receive clear turn signal lens; smaller, curvier sideview mirrors with integrated turn signals; steering wheel controls of stereo/phone/etc.; teleaid included;
2001: change to rack & pinion steering
Hope that is helpful. Don't treat this list as conclusive.
-s-
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
1998 ML320
Thanks scorchie, that's a big help. I've been looking that site over this morning too. FYI though - per the web site it looks like they introduced rack and pinion steering for the 1996 model year, the same year they came out with the new body style with the round headlights.
I have the book "Mercedes Benz Illustrated Buyer's Guide" by Frank Barrett, which has good information in it, but not the level of detail I was looking for. Looks like the Starmark section of MBUSA's web site has it all though.
I have the book "Mercedes Benz Illustrated Buyer's Guide" by Frank Barrett, which has good information in it, but not the level of detail I was looking for. Looks like the Starmark section of MBUSA's web site has it all though.
Last edited by shkeller55; May 20, 2003 at 11:27 AM.
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shkeller55, if price is no object get the 2000 model. Also look for HID Xenon headlamps with washer and AMG sport package would be nice. In-Dash Comand Navigation was also an option on 2000+ cars. Good Luck.
Last edited by E55 KEV; May 20, 2003 at 12:35 PM.
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
1998 ML320
"if price is no object"
....If THAT was the case then I too would get an E55!! : ) But thanks E55 KEV, I have seen a couple of 2000 models in the paper in my price range. They have higher mileage though so I'll have to make sure they were well cared for.
I have a friend who has a 2000 E430 Designo Silver model with lots of bells and whistles. It's really cool but it wasn't cheap.
My current plan is to give my son my '98 ML, which has 94,000 miles on it, so he'll have something built like a tank to drive around in, and get something for myself that's a little more fun to drive but still practical in terms of seating capacity. I thought about a used CLK but they don't have rack and pinion steering and I could feel the difference when I drove one.
....If THAT was the case then I too would get an E55!! : ) But thanks E55 KEV, I have seen a couple of 2000 models in the paper in my price range. They have higher mileage though so I'll have to make sure they were well cared for.
I have a friend who has a 2000 E430 Designo Silver model with lots of bells and whistles. It's really cool but it wasn't cheap.
My current plan is to give my son my '98 ML, which has 94,000 miles on it, so he'll have something built like a tank to drive around in, and get something for myself that's a little more fun to drive but still practical in terms of seating capacity. I thought about a used CLK but they don't have rack and pinion steering and I could feel the difference when I drove one.
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Originally posted by shkeller55
"if price is no object"
....
"if price is no object"
....
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Originally posted by shkeller55
Thanks scorchie, that's a big help. I've been looking that site over this morning too. FYI though - per the web site it looks like they introduced rack and pinion steering for the 1996 model year, the same year they came out with the new body style with the round headlights.
Thanks scorchie, that's a big help. I've been looking that site over this morning too. FYI though - per the web site it looks like they introduced rack and pinion steering for the 1996 model year, the same year they came out with the new body style with the round headlights.
They'll also have you believe that the E55 (W210) has four-piston front calipers, which it only has if you count the pistons in both calipers together.
-s-
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
1998 ML320
Thanks for the correction scorchie.
I just had a friend offer me a 1998 Acura Integra 5-speed tonight for $8700. This would be for my son. This friend took it away from his own son when he got ticketed for violating curfew (I think the curfew is midnight in GA). Tempting, but a Mercedes would still be safer. Decisions, decisions.
I just had a friend offer me a 1998 Acura Integra 5-speed tonight for $8700. This would be for my son. This friend took it away from his own son when he got ticketed for violating curfew (I think the curfew is midnight in GA). Tempting, but a Mercedes would still be safer. Decisions, decisions.
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Go for the 2000! I love my '99 E430 but the 2000 update sure is much sexier. I think just the visual differences makes it worth it. The '99 is so much boxier. The '00 has sidemirror directional lamps, color matched door handles, lower hood, sleeker bumpers/moldings, better lamp lenses all around, new steering wheel, etc.
However, I have heard (and there may be no truth to this) that the pre-2000 models are of better quality. Does anyone else have feedback on that? I was thinking about trading my '99 for a 2002 E-class sometime.
However, I have heard (and there may be no truth to this) that the pre-2000 models are of better quality. Does anyone else have feedback on that? I was thinking about trading my '99 for a 2002 E-class sometime.
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I have the 99 E430, and love it. I thought I would trade it for an E55. Well I just drove an 2001 E55 with 17K on it. Was very unimpressed. Yes it was quicker on acceleration, but not a significant enough difference for me. And the road noise from the wide wheels and low profile tires was horrible in comparison to my E430. Other than the two tone interior, I already have the sport seats, heated seats, and the ground effects, it was the same exact car I have now as far as I was concerned. Guess I'm not 25 anymore, and I just proved it to myself. Really glad I went and test drove it, because before it I was convinced I was buying it.
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
1998 ML320
Thanks for the input, guys. I'm kind of an old man too now, but...
Saturday I went out and drove a new 2004 (with the new headlight design) Subaru WRX 5-speed manual with short-throw shifter, a new 2003 Mazda 6s with V6, 5-speed manual and wheel upgrade, and a 1999 E430 with 57,000 miles on it. All were priced in the mid-20s.
The E430 seemed to be in good shape, and I don’t mean this as an insult, but unfortunately I wasn't impressed with the handling after driving the others. It felt heavy and unresponsive, even compared to my '98 ML, which I think is actually heavier than an E. I wondered if the handling of the early E430s was a case of a chassis designed and sprung for a V-6 having to carry around the extra weight of a V-8. Maybe it just needed some kind of sport shocks and springs to counteract the additional weight. Of course it had plenty of power, by far the best interior (except for the stereo), and would withstand a collision best. I was just surprised at its handling characteristics.
I checked with my friend who has the '00 E430 again - turns out his is not only a Designo editon but also a Sport model. I only rode in it, didn't drive it, but it felt more responsive even in the passenger seat.
So I'll keep looking. I haven't driven an E320 for a couple of years so I'm wondering if one of those would handle better due to its lighter weight.
I may also consider the C class, which seems to handle well, but I was interested in the E class because it seems they have the reliability bugs worked out better for it.
Of course, whatever I end up with, this search is going to be a fun adventure.
Saturday I went out and drove a new 2004 (with the new headlight design) Subaru WRX 5-speed manual with short-throw shifter, a new 2003 Mazda 6s with V6, 5-speed manual and wheel upgrade, and a 1999 E430 with 57,000 miles on it. All were priced in the mid-20s.
The E430 seemed to be in good shape, and I don’t mean this as an insult, but unfortunately I wasn't impressed with the handling after driving the others. It felt heavy and unresponsive, even compared to my '98 ML, which I think is actually heavier than an E. I wondered if the handling of the early E430s was a case of a chassis designed and sprung for a V-6 having to carry around the extra weight of a V-8. Maybe it just needed some kind of sport shocks and springs to counteract the additional weight. Of course it had plenty of power, by far the best interior (except for the stereo), and would withstand a collision best. I was just surprised at its handling characteristics.
I checked with my friend who has the '00 E430 again - turns out his is not only a Designo editon but also a Sport model. I only rode in it, didn't drive it, but it felt more responsive even in the passenger seat.
So I'll keep looking. I haven't driven an E320 for a couple of years so I'm wondering if one of those would handle better due to its lighter weight.
I may also consider the C class, which seems to handle well, but I was interested in the E class because it seems they have the reliability bugs worked out better for it.
Of course, whatever I end up with, this search is going to be a fun adventure.
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Well, the 1999 E-class isn't intended to be sporty, it is intended to be comfortable. A sport model is just a bit sportier. But, it is not sprung for a V6, the V8 version has its own springs and shocks.
Also note that your ML has a rack and pinion steering, so the feel through the wheel is a little better in terms of road feedback. The W210 received this upgrade in 2001.
The pre-2001 non-sport models' steering is intended to provide some level of isolation from the road, so this may be what you experience. Although it is difficult to get rid of without starting with a sport, you can learn to ignore it and throw on stiffer springs, shocks, and higher pressure inflated lower-profile tires to help with turn-in and body roll. This gives you part of the equation when it comes to "responsiveness". Remember that sometimes when you test drive a car, low pressure in the tires can make the car feel like a wet noodle. Rarely do dealers check the air pressure very often on used cars.
-s-
Also note that your ML has a rack and pinion steering, so the feel through the wheel is a little better in terms of road feedback. The W210 received this upgrade in 2001.
The pre-2001 non-sport models' steering is intended to provide some level of isolation from the road, so this may be what you experience. Although it is difficult to get rid of without starting with a sport, you can learn to ignore it and throw on stiffer springs, shocks, and higher pressure inflated lower-profile tires to help with turn-in and body roll. This gives you part of the equation when it comes to "responsiveness". Remember that sometimes when you test drive a car, low pressure in the tires can make the car feel like a wet noodle. Rarely do dealers check the air pressure very often on used cars.
-s-
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From: Lilburn, GA, USA
1998 ML320
Actually they did check the air in the tires before I drove the car; I watched them. I took this to mean at least one of the tires had a slow leak. They had about 5000 miles worth of tread left on them so I'd have to replace them pretty soon anyway. But you're right, most used-car dealers don't check tire pressures (this was an independent dealer).
Out of curiousity, what is your source for the info on the E not getting rack and pinion steering until 2001? Every source I can find - written in books, sales brochures, MBUSA's and other web sites, and people at the dealership all say it came out in 1996.
I think you hit it on the head though - the E was designed for comfort as opposed to sportiness. I found a magazine article about the new 2003 E where they talked about how Mercedes had veered towards the comfort and handling of Lexus with the 1996 - 2002 E class, but with the 2003 model they put more emphasis on handling and steering response to get back closer to BMW.
Out of curiousity, what is your source for the info on the E not getting rack and pinion steering until 2001? Every source I can find - written in books, sales brochures, MBUSA's and other web sites, and people at the dealership all say it came out in 1996.
I think you hit it on the head though - the E was designed for comfort as opposed to sportiness. I found a magazine article about the new 2003 E where they talked about how Mercedes had veered towards the comfort and handling of Lexus with the 1996 - 2002 E class, but with the 2003 model they put more emphasis on handling and steering response to get back closer to BMW.
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Originally posted by scorchie
2001: change to rack & pinion steering
-s-
2001: change to rack & pinion steering
-s-
The 1996 W210 added progressive-assist rack-and-pinion steering that replaced the slow-to-respond recirculating ball arrangement in the W124.
Last edited by E-Klasse; Jun 18, 2003 at 12:06 PM.
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Thanks E-Klasse.
Update: I bought a used 2002 Mini Cooper S for a price in the low $20s. Since it was used it was cheaper than a WRX or Mazda 6, which I could only get new, and cheaper than most 1998 or newer E and 2001 or newer C classes. If the RX-8 had been available I would have strongly considered it, even at its higher price, because it sounds like such a great car. I considered the C Sports Coupe but could not find a used 6-speed with the close-ratio shifter at any price (didn't care for the regular 6-speed). I've driven several C Sports Coupes and really like them. It would have been more practical than a Mini since it's bigger. The Mini definitely has a big cool factor going for it though and it's lots of fun to drive, especially compared to an E. Maybe I'm having a(nother) mid-life crisis. : )
Funny but now that I've updated my signature it seems to have been updated on my previous posts too.
Update: I bought a used 2002 Mini Cooper S for a price in the low $20s. Since it was used it was cheaper than a WRX or Mazda 6, which I could only get new, and cheaper than most 1998 or newer E and 2001 or newer C classes. If the RX-8 had been available I would have strongly considered it, even at its higher price, because it sounds like such a great car. I considered the C Sports Coupe but could not find a used 6-speed with the close-ratio shifter at any price (didn't care for the regular 6-speed). I've driven several C Sports Coupes and really like them. It would have been more practical than a Mini since it's bigger. The Mini definitely has a big cool factor going for it though and it's lots of fun to drive, especially compared to an E. Maybe I'm having a(nother) mid-life crisis. : )
Funny but now that I've updated my signature it seems to have been updated on my previous posts too.
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Originally posted by E-Klasse
My 96 W210 has rack & pinion steering. I put it up on a hoist and looked for my self. That was the first year Mercedes ever offerend it. There were lots of articles about them changing to a rack & pinion system after so long.
The 1996 W210 added progressive-assist rack-and-pinion steering that replaced the slow-to-respond recirculating ball arrangement in the W124.
My 96 W210 has rack & pinion steering. I put it up on a hoist and looked for my self. That was the first year Mercedes ever offerend it. There were lots of articles about them changing to a rack & pinion system after so long.
The 1996 W210 added progressive-assist rack-and-pinion steering that replaced the slow-to-respond recirculating ball arrangement in the W124.
Oh, and "slow to respond" isn't an issue with recirculating ball steering. People often criticize recirculating-ball as being "slow to respond" but that has nothing to do with the construction method. "Slow to respond" has to do with the ratio of the steering box, and the W124 had different ratios available. Some were in fact slow to respond, but not all of them.
The only major difference in driving feel with recirculating ball is that it isolates the driver from the road.
-s-
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Originally posted by E-Klasse
Whether it is "slow to respond" or not... that's a subjective thing. [
]
Whether it is "slow to respond" or not... that's a subjective thing. [
]
]-s-
