konigstiger

Yeah but the switching equipment was manufactured in Canada or Europe. However, in all fairness I should have included the U.S. in my question;

Lexus (a.k.a. Toyota) calls it “poke yoke” (po-kay yo- kay) – error proofing! If the Japanese and Koreans can do it adequately inclusive of software, why can’t the Europeans and U.S.?

SAguirre

I guess I should explain myself further. I personally think that the sample is a bit off. However, as you pointed out, as long as the error is consistent in the other brands, then it should cancel itself out. I am not disputing this at all.

But here is my more specific issue. I personally know quite a bit about cars. However, I know a lot more Lexus owners who are clueless. I think (but this is not based on anything but personal assumption from experience) that as a general owner population, Mercedes owners do know a bit more about their cars. As a result of this, they will know about every little issue with their cars and report it. But this is not my biggest point that readers this survey unscientific.

My issue is that I personally consider "reliability" to be one thing: does the car start and take you when you need it. After all, you do use the car to take you places and that is what you need it for. So when Consumer Reports rates my telephone having an echo when I talk as a reliability problem, that is not correct in my book. In no way did this telephone problem (annoying as it was) render my car as unreliable. It might be a quality issue and it should not happen on a Mercedes, but it is an option that is not very common on a Lexus.

So if a Mercedes Owner reports a problem on the massaging seats as a "power equipment problem" it is accurate, but not a level playing filed since not all the other brands or MB models have the option. Just in the "power equipment" category, Mercedes cars have hundreds of items that can go wrong and strike a negative report. Other cars only have a fraction of the "power equipment" that could fail and cause a strike. This is not a level playing field in reporting

I think that it was in 1991 that my uncle bought a Lexus LS 400. Nice car, but it leaked a little oil drop on the garage floor. When I took it for service it took a bit longer than I thought it should and it turns out that they replaced a bunch of oil seals. They never invoiced this problem as an oil leak or any flaw in the car. In one way I thought that was deceiving since they were simply trying to cover up their problems. On the other hand I liked the fact that they were so concerned about their reputation that they fixed it immediately and at no charge. My point with this paragraph is that if my uncle had gone to pick up the car, he would of never asked what the problem was and he never could report it.

I can tell you that I believe that Lexus or Acura sure seem to be more trouble free than Mercedes Benz, but they are not developing ANYTHING THAT IS ORIGINAL OR A FIRST. That is no excuse for MB to make bad products, but Mercedes has been very straight forward with their problems and they have fixed every little issue I have had. I do think that MB has had some issues and they better fix them, but I don't think that Consumer Report's survey system is truly accurate for any brand. Much less for current Mercedes cars.

So krispykrme, I am not saying that Mercedes are perfect or that Consumer Reports has only screwed up the sampling and reporting of Mercedes cars and not Lexus or Acura. However, I am saying that Lexus and Acura are not as good as they say and Mercedes is not as bad as they say. You bring up very valid points that are quite blunt about the troubles Mercedes cars have for an avid Mercedes owner, but that is needed in this forum.

Steve

nasdaqsam

I think of all manufacturers took the approach that Ford did when they first introduced the Explorer, we would not see the first year problems returning year after year. The first year buyers where given an 800 number that went directly to an Explorer hot line and any and all problems where discussed directly with line managers who assessed the problems and fixed the line immediately.

As far as CR reports I do not think any one brand of car buyer uses them more than any other and most of their reports replicate the findings of JD Power also, seperate companies close to the same results.

Just because we like expensive cars does not make us smarter than someone that purchases inexpensive cars by any means actually the opposite would be true wouldn't it? We just happen to have a passion for cars. It does not take brains to lay down thousands ona car, a smart person would not waste their money on such a horrible investment. Different strokes.

krispykrme

To be honest with you. I find majority of mercedes crowd to be like that of lexus (i.e. clueless). Personally I actually find toyota/BMW tends to be very knowledgeable and very mechanically sound.

So I really don't think this is really the case.

It does not matter, as i believe CR seperate this into different category. Reliability should be classified as if something is working as intended or it is not. Regardless if this is critical function or not.

Againm this is an incident that you states it happened. How can you generalize that this happens numerous time or is a true sample of what happened.

Mercedes did not invoice me correctly on the invoices either. Do you think they go to type in that my wife's tail light assembly disintegrated by itself in the invoice? (all they said was replaced light). They change the wording on the seat belt from torn to worn (my wife CLK seat belt is torn not worn out).

All dealer does that.

The point i am trying to make is that the bias will be applied to all manuf. in CR's survey. However, it is still a good data to see.

Nothing against mercedes or anyone on this forum. I just think that mercedes quality is not where it should be nor is it close to old mercedes. My family (except me) is really a mercedes family, i know how good the quality was for mercedes. But this is not the case anymore.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Hey Krispy....
You didn't happen to get run off the e55 forum did you???
I mean I like some of your posts filled with YOUR opinions of what a car should be (or should'nt), but I normally I had to go to the e55 forum to read them....Then I would simply leave to get away from them. It seems I've had to shuffle through a lot of bull**** lately and was wondering how long you were going to be around?????

Barry45RPM

Thats because those "fewer than/more than average" areas of the chart are the results of OWNERS ratings of the cars that they OWN. The text of the the article is the AUTHORS opinion. I have found that whenever CU slams a car in an article, the owners experiences with the car do not match the authors opinions. That is why I believe the text of the reviews of American cars don't reflect the owners of these same cars experience. Therefore, CU's ratings on cars are meaningless to me.

Any magazine that consistantly reccomends the smallest available engine be chosen when ordering a car because it is "adequate" shouldn't be rating cars. By that reasoning, one should choose a Timex watch over anything more expensive because the Timex is adequate for telling time...

krispykrme

huh?

I still post on the E55 forum. Just not to many items poke my interest. I made a post in E55 forum yesterday and today as well.

I probably will hang around on the E55 forum for about one more year at max. As E55 is going to be traded in as soon as my M5 slot it up (probably will take a 2007 car instead of 2006, since latest problem with engines worries me).

marc777

Well said THundar.

I'll second that.

THE BEST CAR I EVER OWNED - even if I do know the names of everyone in the dealership thanks to the number of times I have needed their services in the past 2 1/2 years........

Marc

THundar

I went into this Benz knowing of the problems that others have encountered.

I would have been slightly irritated if I had paid list price for a new one (like I experienced with my BMW), but I understand that most new luxury car owners are clueless. I tend to believe many of them have probably obtained their money to pay for these expensive cars in a field, profession, or inheretance that does not lend them to understanding much of anything about cars or how to care for them. Most Engineering types are not going to be able to afford this type of vehicle and will end up in a less expensive, quality automobile.

I see this car beiong owned by doctors, lawyers, pro athletes, or trust fund babies. I know and work with many doctors and lawyers. They are obviously not stupid, but mechanically, when it comes to vehicles, they often can't figure out how to adjust the seat. For them, it's a good thing these types of cars come with the all-included service.

I'm ranting here, but in short, my car had 22k miles and loads of warranty repairable issues. The previous owner never had anything fixed and ate the huge depreciation for me when he drove it off the lot and then traded it back in. I got it an incredible price, took it to the dealer with a list of repairs at no cost to me, and have been enjoying every minute of it. Oh yeah, the service dept. is top notch too... far better than the BMW dealer I had to deal with.

We all need to understand that this is a machine. A highly tuned machine with loads of extra features and incredibly tight tolerances. Enjoy and let us all know if you discover a glitch so that we can get it fixed at a customer service department that happens to treat us like kings.

Y2KE320

I have been watching this site for a long time and I can't imagine wasting so much of my time at the service department. I'm thinking about Japanese cars now. Gee, I thought I would never say that....My wife has an MDX and it's been bullet proof at 35k miles. Maybe that RL or M Infinity...

Mirage

very interesting site ... seems to me the jury is still out concerning the quality on the MBz . I for one have had NO problems thus far with 10900 miles , it is pure driving perfection. I am always surprised when I read of a problem some have had.I suppose I am lucky so far that I have not had any of the problems that I have read on these forums it just has not happened . this is the best car I have ever owned ,if in the future there is a problem , I know that I can bring it to the dealer and have it fixed at no charge. I agree with Thundar , it is a high quality machine that is almost near perfect
A Mercedes is a Mercedes is a Mercedes ...hands down.
I would say that it is all relevant when you talk about owning a car of lesser value , there are always gonna be some sort of problems with any car,the question is which car would you rather have a problem with and then have fixed and then drive away in??