Mercedes Benz Road Rally (long post!!)
06-13-2005, 02:04 AM
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04 E320 4 Matic, 95 Audi S6, 99 Carrera 4 Cabrio, 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 00 BMW R1200C 10, BMW R1200R
Mercedes Benz Road Rally (long post!!)
I finally decided to attend one of the Mercedes functions in the Denver area since my W211 is still considered a new body car compared to the current models. I usually avoid going to them since I might end up buying something afterwards.
So, MB USA had the new ML 350 and the ML 500 along with a C230 kompressor that had the sports package, an E350 (nothing special RWD) and an E500 (also stock and RWD, but has some standard options that the E350 obviously does not have).
The test loop was about 3/4 mile long and started with one slalom and then an “elk-test” lane change, then a nice right turn followed by a tighter left turn and a few sharp little curves. At the end, the MLs drove over a few little obstacles while the two Es and the C went back to get new drivers.
The whole thing was really for amateurs, but if you dared (when the security folk driving around in the minivan were not looking at you) you could push it a bit harder, Needles to say, I did.
I first drove the ML 350 with regular suspension. The ML is nothing like the old one, I must say that it has been improved quite a bit! The ML 350 took off very respectably (but I don’t think it was quite as fast as the older ML430, but close). I managed all the slaloms and obstacles amazingly well in spite of considerable body roll. I need to say though, that the ML had body roll, but most other domestic SUVs and some other imports would not have been in the lanes at all! The ML let you kick it around and did what you asked it to well. I think that the MDX (owned in our family) is comparable to our 1979 Fleetwood Broham on this track.
I later drove the C230 Kompressor. It is a shame that this car was an automatic, but it was a lot of fun. It reminded my of my 190E 2.3-16 I had in Germany. This little C was very nimble and handled everything very well. It liked being thrown around and seems to be well balanced.
I later drove the E350. Here is where I was a bit negatively surprised! Seeing that I just drove my E320 4-matic to the event in Commerce City (about 50 miles away from my house) I thought that I would be able to have the most fun with this car. Seeing that both this car and my car have the same wheels and tire size I thought that they would be comparable. I have the dreaded Continental tires that have been OK and this E350 had the Michelins. At first I noticed that the E350 was quite peppier than my E320 (but not too much). I accelerated as fast as I could and did the first slalom, then I swerved to miss the fake-pneumatically activated elk. Then came the relatively unwelcome surprise: I noticed that the RWD E with regular suspension did not really like to be tossed around too much but it took it. But, when I made the right turn after the elk maneuver, I gave it a significant amount of throttle when I was coming out of the turn. Since the track was a bit wet and the pavement had pieces of the friction layer warn off, the rear end of the E350 immediately sung out and the car started to over steer. So much so, that the rear wheel hit two orange cones. How embarrassing! The car lost the rear end so quickly that the ESP took a bit to turn on. I did not loose much speed at all and the whole incident was quite undetectable. I still gave the car some hell on the rest of the track, but the car had very unpredictable drifts. When I got out of the car, the person standing there who had the ear walkie-talkie asked me if there was orange paint on the side of the car in a funny way. The car was a dark blue and was filthy, luckily, there was no place were the dirt was warn off so it proved that only the wheel hit the cones. The E350 did not have too much body roll, the car handled well, but the RWD with those Michelins was just not what I expected it to be. I asked about tire inflation and the folks said that they had just checked them that morning. I think that I would have fishtailed just as much on an E320 that was RWD and with the same suspension package.
I don’t want to slam the E350, but I am convinced that my E320 4-matic with the Continentals would of smoked this car in this track! Both have regular suspension and the same wheel size, but I must admit that the standard RWD without 4-maitc is a bit freaky and I should of remembered more from the days of my other RWD Es.
So, after this I drove the ML 500 with the air suspension. Well, I put it in sport mode and I was able to do the same track at a significantly faster average speed than the E350! The ML 500 was on rails and loved to be pushed, I really must say that this SUV was the BOMB! As far as SUVs go. It did everything that the ML 350 did, but it did not show any signs of being out of its element.
So then I saved the E500 for last! I figured that I was not recognizable by that point. So I got in the E 500 with my friend (who is a business partner) and proceeded to drive up to the guy that tells you when there is enough distance from the car on the track to start. He recognized me and made a little joke. Well, I sank the gas pedal to the floor and went through the slalom and the fake elk lane change. I immediately noticed that this car was miles better in stability that then E350 since it had the 17 inch wheels and still Continental tires and the Airmatic. I literally made the car scream through the rest of the track. So much so that by the end of the loop, I could smell burned rubber! I did not get any looks and I was happy that I saved that car for last. My business partner had a hard time believing that it was me behind the wheel. I drive him around a lot when we go places and he always says that I drive like a grand ma in town and normal on the highway. I guess he saw a different side of me on the track.
The E350 was probably the worst in the bunch in handling (regular suspension package), I think that the 4-Matic makes a world of difference and is well worth it.
I thought that the ML 350 was a very capable car and handled very well. Probably because of the AWD among other things. I still think that is was a tad better than the E350, but not by much.
The ML 350 was great! But I think that it was the air suspension that made the difference. It was on for 6 hours, averaged 7 mph, drove 65 miles and averaged 5 mpgs!!!! Even thought I could afford it, I would not want to pay for gas on that car.
The best one of the bunch was the E 500. I think that it handled every bit as well as a 4-matic on the track, and had much less body roll than my E320 4-M. I think that it was the bigger wheels and the Airmatic suspension that made the day. This leads me to believe that the 4-Matic suspension must be a bit different than the stock E suspension for the respective regular E model since my 4-matic does significantly better then the stock E but not quite as good as the E500 with 17s and Airmatic suspension.
The C230 Kompressor really should not be compared with these other cars though so I am not grouping it. However, it did much better than the ML350 and the E350, these are SUVs after all.
So, if I don’t buy a 4-matic next time, it will have Airmatic and the sport package. I could not believe how well these packages did on the track. I would have liked to try an E350 4-matic or an E500 4-matic though.
If you have been invited to one of there road rallies and you are not sure about going, I think that it is well worth it! I would have liked to put my Audi S6 on that loop. In spite of it not having ESP, I am sure that I would have had a lot of fun.
Long post, I know!
Steve
BTW, none of the cars had any malfunctions on their systems! I thought was pretty good considering they all had about 1,000 miles and were really beat up over the weekend.
So, MB USA had the new ML 350 and the ML 500 along with a C230 kompressor that had the sports package, an E350 (nothing special RWD) and an E500 (also stock and RWD, but has some standard options that the E350 obviously does not have).
The test loop was about 3/4 mile long and started with one slalom and then an “elk-test” lane change, then a nice right turn followed by a tighter left turn and a few sharp little curves. At the end, the MLs drove over a few little obstacles while the two Es and the C went back to get new drivers.
The whole thing was really for amateurs, but if you dared (when the security folk driving around in the minivan were not looking at you) you could push it a bit harder, Needles to say, I did.
I first drove the ML 350 with regular suspension. The ML is nothing like the old one, I must say that it has been improved quite a bit! The ML 350 took off very respectably (but I don’t think it was quite as fast as the older ML430, but close). I managed all the slaloms and obstacles amazingly well in spite of considerable body roll. I need to say though, that the ML had body roll, but most other domestic SUVs and some other imports would not have been in the lanes at all! The ML let you kick it around and did what you asked it to well. I think that the MDX (owned in our family) is comparable to our 1979 Fleetwood Broham on this track.
I later drove the C230 Kompressor. It is a shame that this car was an automatic, but it was a lot of fun. It reminded my of my 190E 2.3-16 I had in Germany. This little C was very nimble and handled everything very well. It liked being thrown around and seems to be well balanced.
I later drove the E350. Here is where I was a bit negatively surprised! Seeing that I just drove my E320 4-matic to the event in Commerce City (about 50 miles away from my house) I thought that I would be able to have the most fun with this car. Seeing that both this car and my car have the same wheels and tire size I thought that they would be comparable. I have the dreaded Continental tires that have been OK and this E350 had the Michelins. At first I noticed that the E350 was quite peppier than my E320 (but not too much). I accelerated as fast as I could and did the first slalom, then I swerved to miss the fake-pneumatically activated elk. Then came the relatively unwelcome surprise: I noticed that the RWD E with regular suspension did not really like to be tossed around too much but it took it. But, when I made the right turn after the elk maneuver, I gave it a significant amount of throttle when I was coming out of the turn. Since the track was a bit wet and the pavement had pieces of the friction layer warn off, the rear end of the E350 immediately sung out and the car started to over steer. So much so, that the rear wheel hit two orange cones. How embarrassing! The car lost the rear end so quickly that the ESP took a bit to turn on. I did not loose much speed at all and the whole incident was quite undetectable. I still gave the car some hell on the rest of the track, but the car had very unpredictable drifts. When I got out of the car, the person standing there who had the ear walkie-talkie asked me if there was orange paint on the side of the car in a funny way. The car was a dark blue and was filthy, luckily, there was no place were the dirt was warn off so it proved that only the wheel hit the cones. The E350 did not have too much body roll, the car handled well, but the RWD with those Michelins was just not what I expected it to be. I asked about tire inflation and the folks said that they had just checked them that morning. I think that I would have fishtailed just as much on an E320 that was RWD and with the same suspension package.
I don’t want to slam the E350, but I am convinced that my E320 4-matic with the Continentals would of smoked this car in this track! Both have regular suspension and the same wheel size, but I must admit that the standard RWD without 4-maitc is a bit freaky and I should of remembered more from the days of my other RWD Es.
So, after this I drove the ML 500 with the air suspension. Well, I put it in sport mode and I was able to do the same track at a significantly faster average speed than the E350! The ML 500 was on rails and loved to be pushed, I really must say that this SUV was the BOMB! As far as SUVs go. It did everything that the ML 350 did, but it did not show any signs of being out of its element.
So then I saved the E500 for last! I figured that I was not recognizable by that point. So I got in the E 500 with my friend (who is a business partner) and proceeded to drive up to the guy that tells you when there is enough distance from the car on the track to start. He recognized me and made a little joke. Well, I sank the gas pedal to the floor and went through the slalom and the fake elk lane change. I immediately noticed that this car was miles better in stability that then E350 since it had the 17 inch wheels and still Continental tires and the Airmatic. I literally made the car scream through the rest of the track. So much so that by the end of the loop, I could smell burned rubber! I did not get any looks and I was happy that I saved that car for last. My business partner had a hard time believing that it was me behind the wheel. I drive him around a lot when we go places and he always says that I drive like a grand ma in town and normal on the highway. I guess he saw a different side of me on the track.
The E350 was probably the worst in the bunch in handling (regular suspension package), I think that the 4-Matic makes a world of difference and is well worth it.
I thought that the ML 350 was a very capable car and handled very well. Probably because of the AWD among other things. I still think that is was a tad better than the E350, but not by much.
The ML 350 was great! But I think that it was the air suspension that made the difference. It was on for 6 hours, averaged 7 mph, drove 65 miles and averaged 5 mpgs!!!! Even thought I could afford it, I would not want to pay for gas on that car.
The best one of the bunch was the E 500. I think that it handled every bit as well as a 4-matic on the track, and had much less body roll than my E320 4-M. I think that it was the bigger wheels and the Airmatic suspension that made the day. This leads me to believe that the 4-Matic suspension must be a bit different than the stock E suspension for the respective regular E model since my 4-matic does significantly better then the stock E but not quite as good as the E500 with 17s and Airmatic suspension.
The C230 Kompressor really should not be compared with these other cars though so I am not grouping it. However, it did much better than the ML350 and the E350, these are SUVs after all.
So, if I don’t buy a 4-matic next time, it will have Airmatic and the sport package. I could not believe how well these packages did on the track. I would have liked to try an E350 4-matic or an E500 4-matic though.
If you have been invited to one of there road rallies and you are not sure about going, I think that it is well worth it! I would have liked to put my Audi S6 on that loop. In spite of it not having ESP, I am sure that I would have had a lot of fun.
Long post, I know!
Steve
BTW, none of the cars had any malfunctions on their systems! I thought was pretty good considering they all had about 1,000 miles and were really beat up over the weekend.
06-13-2005, 03:31 PM
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06 E350 Wagon, 05 MINI Cooper S Convertible
I've got the E350 Wagon with 17in wheels and Airmatic. (Performance Package) I have not driven it on a track, but for me it handles like a dream on the curvey back roads of Germany. Just got back from a trip to Frankfurt Germany, hit a top speed of 135 (downhill, as the car is limited to 130mph). Cruised at speeds in excess of 120 for extended periods of time. Even at that speed, you can feel the acceleration when you press down on the pedal. The car is rock solid. When I had to slow to 70 or 80 mph, it felt like I was sitting still. I feel for you guys in the States but know my day is coming soon! On my one hour drive each way, I averaged 81 mph and got 19.9 mpg. Not too bad. I am getting around 20 mpg around town. (average speeds of around 25 mph) I'd like to see a comparasion of the E350 with Performance package and the E500. I wonder if for the average driver there'd be much difference. The main reason I did not get the E500 is because I wanted a Wagon and did not want to miss out on the 7 speed trans. As most of you know, the E500 wagon (US Specs) only comes in 4matic with the 5 speed.
06-13-2005, 08:13 PM
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We had a lot of fun. Yes, the Chrysler mini van was the "police." Still, the frau enjoed the course, hard-hitting the accellerator/brakes on the '500, which was very nice. So did I!
PS: I'd follow the advice given earlier: don't buy a dealer's or mfg.'s pre-owned specials. These vehicles were worked!
PS: I'd follow the advice given earlier: don't buy a dealer's or mfg.'s pre-owned specials. These vehicles were worked!
06-13-2005, 09:18 PM
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Build date 2-04 E500
Nice report Steve.... It makes me wanting to go to one of these events also. Glad to hear of your good time beating up them MB's.... 
Oh, and of coarse the valuable info obtained for your next purchase. 
Oh, and of coarse the valuable info obtained for your next purchase.
06-14-2005, 03:35 PM
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ML 320 CDI
Steve,
I had a loaner E that had the regular suspension and I was very surprised at the difference in handling. Mine always feels secure and loves to be thrown about but the regular suspension just didn't feel right and became worrying on twisty bits.
Nice report BTW
I had a loaner E that had the regular suspension and I was very surprised at the difference in handling. Mine always feels secure and loves to be thrown about but the regular suspension just didn't feel right and became worrying on twisty bits.
Nice report BTW
06-15-2005, 09:22 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
I did the C Spot party last year and the ML Rally this year. The ML is a huge leap forward from the old one.
The C Spot party was way better (food, drink, massage, video games and a higher speed course)
Damn good time for free though.
The C Spot party was way better (food, drink, massage, video games and a higher speed course)
Damn good time for free though.
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