E-Class (W211) 2003-2009

Do you think its totaled?

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Old 10-11-2005, 01:23 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by dacbiet
It may not be a bad idea to get yourself checked out by a doctor.

good call... get checked out by a doc..

And you can expect the car to be repair with all OEM parts, to like-new condition.. no expense spared.. thus I'm sure it will be totaled.
Old 10-11-2005, 01:31 PM
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I just got back from meeting with the adjuster, and as it stands now, just looking at the car visually, sitting on the ground I'm at 22K+ in damage, It will be a few weeks before the shop will be able to get it on a lift and start pulling panel off to revel the extent of the damage. Where would I find the value of the car? Since it’s so new it's not on KKB yet. Should I do a search through MBUSA for certified used cars and look for comparable equipped cars with close to my mileage?

Thanks for the advice regarding the doctor. I will get checked out.
Old 10-11-2005, 02:05 PM
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Check ebay motors under completed items.
Old 10-11-2005, 02:08 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
$22K, he's smoking crack! The engine alone is $15,000.. if you lost the oil and it ran for even a minute.. that's BAD. If there is Unibody damage.. that's $20K alone.. then there is the suspension.. and EVERY body panel needs to be replaced (only let them paint panels that are not dented)..

I would guess the car has a mid retail book of between $43-$45K if its not loaded too much, and has under 12K miles..
Old 10-11-2005, 02:38 PM
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damnnnnnn, glad youre ok
Old 10-11-2005, 03:31 PM
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Food for thought…

We recently had a minor accident (less than 5 mph fender bender) in our Audi allroad. Total repair bill was going to be in excess of $22k (due to minor frame damage) not enough to total the car…but regardless I didn’t want it back…I immediately found a buyer for the car in its “wrecked condition” and made a demand on the insurance to “cash me out”…the insurance wrote me a check for the full $22k, I took $12k from the buyer and in the end I walked away with $34k in my pocket and bought another car. Just something to keep in mind should the insurance company not want to total the car.

Ps- buyer ended up being a local high-end used car dealer…I’m sure they fixed the car for less than $10k and flipped it for a profit
Old 10-19-2005, 02:30 AM
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Damages

Glad you are okay. Make sure that you take it to a MB Dealer for the estimate. There is no way to fix that car for $22,000.
Old 10-19-2005, 02:42 AM
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THe way I see the demages, I think:
- 80% ins. will have it repair.
- 20% will totall it.
Keep us update.
Old 10-19-2005, 10:00 AM
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Fixable?

The car would certainly be totaled if it was a BMW.

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...ck=1&cset=true

Front-End Repair? Maybe Just Throw It Away
BMW's new techniques and rules restrict what repair shops can do, and baffled insurers are junking the vehicles. Some critics think manufacturers are beginning to make throw-away cars.

By Ralph Vartabedian, Times Staff Writer


If you hear talk about things such as rivets, epoxy adhesives and aluminum structures, you might guess the subject involves airplanes.

But in this case, we are talking about the front ends of recent BMW Series 5 and Series 6 cars, which are constructed with many of the same techniques you might find at the Northrop Grumman F-18 assembly plant in El Segundo.

BMW touts the vehicles for their remarkable handling, fuel economy and elite engineering, but critics of the designs say they are impractical, vulnerable to minor accidents and difficult to repair the way BMW recommends.

The technology is another step in a much broader auto industry trend that is making collision repairs ever more costly, a kinder way of saying manufacturers are building throw-away cars. It means that more cars are totaled when they have relatively modest damage, particularly if they are more than five years old.

Although BMWs can certainly be repaired, it requires a degree of sophistication and cost that may be unprecedented.

BMW will certify auto body technicians only if they are employees of BMW dealerships, using BMW-approved parts, tools, adhesives and rivets. Though independent shops can buy equipment and get training, they are not allowed to say they perform certified repairs, BMW's official seal of approval.

"It is a game," said Don Feeley, owner of three independent body shops in Riverside. "Absolutely, they are shutting auto body shops out of their business."

Of course, BMW does not see it like that.

The BMW system, code named the Grav 60, was introduced in the 2004 model year. It features an aluminum firewall, which separates the engine compartment from the interior, and frame rails that extend forward, all riveted and glued to the rest of the car's steel structure. When the cars come out of the factory they are built to a tolerance of 1 millimeter, about the thickness of a dime.

The entire front structure weighs just 100 pounds, meaning the vehicles have a nearly perfect 50/50 weight distribution between the front and rear wheels, said Jeff Kohut, BMW's paint and body business development manager.

"It handles better," Kohut said. "Go drive a car with a steel nose and you can tell the difference cornering, braking and turning."

But one important question is what happens when your prized BMW gets kissed in the real world. With steel frame cars that are robotically welded at the factory, a body expert can put the car on a rack and bend it back into shape.

Under BMW's guidelines, any bending on the front end is verboten. An accident that deforms the front end by more than 1 millimeter requires the replacement of the main front-end structures. Because the engine, transmission, suspension and body are all connected to those structures, it is a labor-intensive process.

What's more, BMW specifies technicians can use only certain specialized tools, such as rivet extractors and rivet guns. Kenneth Zion, an auto body instructor at El Camino College and an independent collision consultant, says a shop can spend as much as $100,000 to fully outfit itself for BMW repairs. Zion, who has learned the system and will introduce the technology at El Camino, said the new system is unprecedented in how tightly the manufacturer is controlling the repair process.

It is so tight, in fact, that the repair and insurance industries are going a little nuts.

A claims adjuster for AAA, who has examined damaged BMW cars with the Grav 60 technology, says there is no question the repairs are more costly compared to those of a steel unibody.

"Certainly, people are alarmed," said the adjuster, who asked not to be identified because he would be handed his head if he were named. "An identical car made with steel parts would definitely be cheaper to repair. On one half of the BMW, you can have no straightening."

Feeley, among others, says BMW is overblowing the difficulty of repairing the vehicles. "The manufacturers have always said they are building things that can't be repaired, and we have figured out how to repair them," he said.

The broader trend is alarming the auto body industry, which is composed of thousands of mom and pop shops.

"Definitely, some of the auto makers want their certified shops or dealers to be the only ones approved to do repairs," said David McClune, executive director of the California Auto Body Assn. "If a shop has properly trained technicians and equipment, our position is they should have the opportunity to do those repairs."

Kohut said, however, that about 1,000 technicians have gone through BMW's two-day training course for Grav 60 repairs, about two-thirds of them from independent shops. Even though they are not certified, BMW accepts the fact that they can perform adequate repairs.

Although he rejects the idea that repair costs are higher on the Grav 60 system, Kohut said insurers are struggling to understand the technology.

"We have found the insurers are unsure of what to do with a car, so they declare it a total loss," he said. "They weren't sure it would be safe, so they send it to the salvage yard."
Old 10-19-2005, 07:43 PM
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Sorry to hear about your experience FlintCDI, your experience. What I really want to comment on is how an Honda/Acura wouldn't have kept him safe also. Don't downplay such brands...Just that its a Benz so it gets taken up a level, if not two.

I was hit head-on at 65 mph in a 98 Honda Civic by a F150 and came out with a scratch....

Hope all comes out well for you Flint
Old 10-19-2005, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JimPurdy
The car would certainly be totaled if it was a BMW.





BMW will certify auto body technicians only if they are employees of BMW dealerships, using BMW-approved parts, tools, adhesives and rivets. Though independent shops can buy equipment and get training, they are not allowed to say they perform certified repairs, BMW's official seal of approval.



."
That is good imo. Repairs can only be done by a BMW certified shop and geninue parts.

On a side note Mercedes CL has similar techniques in their front end made out of magnesium which normal shops can't repair.

Last edited by Dvinn; 10-19-2005 at 09:55 PM.
Old 10-19-2005, 10:08 PM
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2005 Carlsson CD32 E320 CDI Inline-6
Venture to say.....Its repairable!

But you don't want it after the fix.

Try to get them to total it and if you have time (and esp if you have Frequent Flyer/ Credit card miles) go Euro delivery on the new car to drive cost down.

At least you're intact!

Ask how much to buy it back as is....since its still under warranty not much demand for the engine/trans yet so you may get it cheap and re-sell the carcass. I think the shades may not be available anymore, plus a few other de-contenting pieces (Armrest, REST feature) you may wish to cannibalize.

Last edited by cdiken; 10-19-2005 at 10:12 PM.
Old 10-20-2005, 03:14 AM
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06 320E CDI, Porsche 911 C2, Pontiac Montana
$22,000? Are you KIDDING?

An idiot truck driver backed up and bent the hood and some brackets and that was a $7,000 fix. I rented a Hyundai (spit) and had a MINOR front end smack (hood, radiator, lights) and it was $6,000.

Bottom line....

DO NOT LET THEM DICTATE TO YOU WHERE TO REPAIR THE CAR. You have a right to repair it at Mercedes and that is not going to be cheap. Some insurance companies have "deals" with body shops so bear in mind that those body shops have only ONE interest. The insurance companies pocket. After all, they depend on that for a living.

If you went off road, you have bent more items then you care to think or know. A reputable Mercedes shop will replace ANYTHING they feel is dangerous or safety related. A insurance shop will replace the MINIMAL things it can get away with.

Have the car towed to Mercedes RIGHT AWAY and have them give you an estimate. Once you get that estimate, you tie the adjusters hands. If indeed the insurance company has side deals with body shops, that will be the last thing the adjuster wants you to do. Be careful, adjusters will LIE straight to your face while smiling. His JOB is to save the insurance company money, NOT to look after your interest. HE IS THE ENEMY!

Glad your okay! But you deserve some of this...

Last edited by Spartan; 10-20-2005 at 03:18 AM.
Old 10-20-2005, 08:03 AM
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My Mercedes Dealer has NO Body Shop., although they will gently "infer" that they do. They send the car out to any one of a number of local body shops, and mark up their "wholsale cost" of the repair (on non insurance jobs).

In the case of insurance jobs, I'm sure there is some kind of referall fee the Body Shop is paying to the MB Dealer.

On my accident, they asked me if I had a shop I prefer to bring it to or they would take the car in and "handle" the repair for me. My SA told me if I had a Body Shop I trusted I could use it... if I wasn't sure about one to use i should let them take care of it.

I would trust my Body Shop with my Wife, so I gave it to them to do. I was not going to let the body shop do the final wheel alignment (if it needed it, since insurance was paying for it), and my MB SA told me I didn't have to bring it to MB. He said, "If a body shop has, and can use a frame straightening machine on the premises, they certainly can use an alignment machine. There is very little body damage to my car, and NO frame damage, but he does have a point. If I notice any off centeredness or drift, (There was none after the "accident", I'll take it to MB for another alignment.

Yeah, there are a lot of "Gypsy" Body Shops out there, but MB doesn't build "disposable cars" like BMW. They CAN be repaired by good Body Shops. BMW doesn't want any Non-BMW people working on their cars, even if the body techs have taken the 2 day course given by BMW and are certified on how to repair their front ends. Why can a guy working on a BMW nose at a BMW shop, not do the same work in a privately owned body shop?

There's no mystery here folks... everyone is just trying to hold onto business and profits that increasingly aren't there because cars are so dependable, and well made compared to the '70's and '80's, that there is less and less customer paid work for them. These guys haven't been "grease monkeys" for years now... they're computer-literate technicians with greasy tools and hands.

(Lets all ignore MB's electronics problems for a minute...)

Last edited by Barry45RPM; 10-20-2005 at 08:18 AM.
Old 10-20-2005, 08:09 AM
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2005 E230 CDI
Originally Posted by Spartan
Glad your okay! But you deserve some of this...
I know I believe some of this is in order as well

I have had the vehicle transported to Atlanta Classic Cars, Inc. in Duluth, GA. (just outside of Atlanta) The have a brand new Mercedes-Benz Certified Collision Center. http://www.atlantaclassiccars.com/in...ink&Link=56473 I've been in contact with the collision manager and he has suggested the same as many of you, if they don't total it he has a buyer for the car in its present state. The service to date has been impeccable. If the dealer weren’t over 500 mi away I'd buy me next car from them based on my present experience.

I have every confidence that the car has far more damage than the initial 22K, and that the repairs would be done per MB standards. The insurance company wanted to put a Safelight windshield in but Tom Keenoy assured me that it would be the same type of windshield that was in the car now installed with MB adhesive.

All of this aside, I still don't want the car. And I DON'T trusts my adjuster. I'll be getting the $ for the car one way or another. I don't want to make their lives a living hell, but I have not problem doing so to get this resolved to my satisfaction.

Thanks for all you advice thus far. You and the Forum have been an invaluable resource.

Best regards to you all,

Jeff
Old 10-20-2005, 11:00 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
It worth getting a private estimate done, even if you have to pay $100 or so.. to get a check and balance to the adjuster.. He may be trying to save money.

Insurance companies in the wake of the latest disasters hare CUTTING bigtime costs..

Don't cave in..
Old 10-20-2005, 12:22 PM
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It all sounds like you guys are in control when this time has come but in reality, the ins. company are the one that take over control. They will not take the offer estimated from any privates. Our speak is useless to them. W have to go with their rout.
Old 10-20-2005, 08:31 PM
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2005 Carlsson CD32 E320 CDI Inline-6
Check into the tax credit for diesels bought after 01/2006

If you get another CDI, may want to wait for '06 and get up to a $3400 tax credit.

Not sure of details about the credit, how much you get, if its tied to your income or the cost or mileage of the car or what, but its worth looking into.

KB
Old 10-21-2005, 02:22 PM
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depends on the insurance guy my guess is Yes
Old 10-21-2005, 05:00 PM
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It looks like the CDI won't qualify until 2007 LSD

Originally Posted by cdiken
If you get another CDI, may want to wait for '06 and get up to a $3400 tax credit.

Not sure of details about the credit, how much you get, if its tied to your income or the cost or mileage of the car or what, but its worth looking into.

KB

"Both diesels and hybrids must meet certain emissions certification levels to qualify: smaller vehicles must have a Federal emissions rating of Tier 2 bin 5 or better, and larger ones must achieve Tier 2 bin 8, a less stringent requirement. While many hybrid vehicles already meet the emissions requirement, no diesels are currently rated cleaner than bin 10. Diesels, however, may begin achieving requisite levels in model year 2007 with the introduction of ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel"
http://www.aceee.org/transportation/hybtaxcred.htm
Old 10-21-2005, 07:27 PM
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Man I can't count the times I look up and I am only seconds away from having my baby look like yours. Honestly the pix don't look too bad but your frame is definitely bent.

Here is what I do know, my buddy had a minor fender bender in his CLK last year. He took it to Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach, the changes everything but including the kitchen sink. I could barely tell there was any damage to the car to begin with and it cost $11,500.00 to fix it. They even changed the steering column and the airbag hadn't even deployed.

I guess I am saying that at a MB dealer it will cost you around $35K to get the car to new condition and paint matched and all, and to be honest it will never drive the same.
Old 10-29-2005, 01:46 AM
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You folks aren't realizing the insurance carrier has the say to total or not. They have a business to run and guidelines in place. I have a feeling this is going to take some time to resolve. The vehicle is worth a lot of money. The body damage the appraiser probably wrote for so far was exactly that an estimate. Without tearing down the vehicle to find additional items damaged the actualy price of the vehicle cannot be determined. Based on the vehicle's value I am under the assumption that they will go ahead and proceed with repairing the vehicle. If they decide to repair the vehicle only then will the repair facility be able to teardown the vehicle and uncover additional damages. Why must they wait until a decision to repair to teardown, to determine how cost effective it may be to pursue that option as they need to pay the shop for the teardown. It will be at this point where things may get interesting. If the engine is damaged they may tried to find one from some other wrecked CDI or order a replacement unit. Which will run up the cost of repairs.

I wish you the best in this situation and great to hear you are ok. Some pulling of the frame looks like it will help alleviate most of the minor bucking throughout the vehicle.
Old 10-29-2005, 11:13 AM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by michakaveli
c If the engine is damaged they may tried to find one from some other wrecked CDI or order a replacement unit. Which will run up the cost of repairs.
based on all of the stuff that's standard on the E500 and E350, and missing in the CDI, and based on the CDI costing more than an E350.. I'm willing to bet the engine is pricey.. more so than your typical MB Engine which if memory serves, I understand the E320 engine V6 was close to $10,000 to replace for a member here a while back.
Old 11-01-2005, 08:39 PM
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I just saw this, bummer, but glad you're okay.

What song were you listening to?

Really, how big were the boobies on the lady walking her dog anyway?
Old 11-02-2005, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PHXATC
I just saw this, bummer, but glad you're okay.

What song were you listening to?

Really, how big were the boobies on the lady walking her dog anyway?
Thanks,

I wish I could use a skirt with a nice rack as an excuse, but it was just me being a dumb-a**.

I've gotten a few bids in from local shop who want to but the car in its present condition. However they are only offering 13-15K. Obviously, there will still be a supplemental estimate done. The car is in Atlanta now, does anyone know of any shops that might be interested in the car that would like to make an offer (national or local?). The wouldn’t have to come up with much on the supplemental for me to break even with what I owe. But I'd like to have a bit more.

Thanks for all the advice thus far.

Regards,

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