tpliquid

happened to my moms E500 yesterday, brakes just died she couldnt stop and hit 3? cars.. pretty bad.. we have a 2005 E500. i looked aorund and i cant find any SBC recalls for the 05 E500. maybe im nto looking hard enough

konigstiger

Hope Mom is fine.

http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/r...Mercedes-Benz*

Call a lawyer!!

MBE55AMG

*hit, son! That's messed up on MB's part. I would too, call a lawyer.

Hope your mother's okay.

BudC

If you find out what happened, please let us know. Were the brakes just serviced?

tpliquid

i think my mom is talking to one already.

nope the brakes were not serviced, car had 1900 miles only.

i'll keep you guys updated when i find more info

W211 Ryda

Sh*t. I hope your mom and everyone else involved is okay. With all these brake failure/malfunction stories I'm starting to have doubts about keeping mine. Please keep us posted on how MB will handle this for you.

Alan l.

Omg....is this something i need to worry about in my 06 350 4matic? I notice the brake calipers is different on the 4m cars.

Someone educate me what exactly is SBC?

BudC

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/sbc.html
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/pix/sbc1BIG.jpg
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/pix/sbc3.jpg

ruykava

this is very, very strange. brakes do not just go out on SBC cars. in fact, the problem has NEVER been reported on the SL, which has the exact same system. generally only taxi Mercs have ever had this problem, and even then, it was very seldom and there have been no reported accidents, as there is still backup braking available.

do find out from your mum all the facts of what happened - it's a good thing she's alright but i imagine the car's pretty banged up?

there were reports of Camrys loosing their brakes a few years ago - later turned out the pedals were so placed that if some people drive in a certain way, they'd accidentally press both together - and that turned out to be the real "problem". i'm not saying this is what happened to your mum, just saying sometimes it's something else that's the problem.

jmorgis

I also have e 2003 E320. My wife was in a "minor" accident. She was hit from behind. Minor damge to the bumper. When the police finished writing up the accidnt. She tried to drive away, within a couple 100 yards, she had SBC failure. She said she had NO breaking at all.

I was very surprised that the breaks failed from such a small accident.

John

BudC

If you look at the diagram of the SBC system, there is braking but it's only on the front wheels and requires quite a bit of pedal pressure. What happens is that when the SBC controller shuts down, the system reverts to a somewhat weak master cylinder. It's purely mechanical/hydraulic at that point.

I'm sure the difference in pedal pressure is quite large and the pedal also has to be depressed much farther than normal. This can confuse anyone who is not expecting it or doesn't know about it.

jmorgis

I tend to agree, but according to my wife, she had no breaks. But again, im sure she was not pushing with enough force.

But, why would the system fail, on a minor accident? The only damage I have is scrapes and the other cars paint on my bumper. I saw no damage under the car. The first message that came up on the displey, is reduced breaking message, then total SBC Failure. When the truck came to get us, we could not get the car out of park, because the SBC failure.

John

Jakpro1

This is insane....SBC has GOTTA GO. Enough with people supporting it.

I am a middle aged pup and have driven everything from big block drag racing cars to Subarus, to pickups, and now thank God some more cash and a Benz, and NEVER had brakes just die without a bit of control. This is the only car that I have spent near 100K for and am in terror driving in traffic. Sure there were times when I didn't service the pads on the old cars as a kid and felt them go soggy.....but GONE.

Sooner the better......bye bye SBC!

BudC

They are gone on the W211 next year. At least they'll go back to the regular master cylinder.

I think the major fault of SBC is that the fail-safe system shuts things down when it would be better to just display a red warning to pull off the road and call for help. I wonder how many times that system shuts down when it would still work better than the backup system.

fubar

Although I am not super worried about failure, I really don't like the feel of the SBC brakes. My car is in for service and I'm driviing a loaner C230. I cannot believe how much more comfortable and confident I am with "regular" brakes. I understand that they may save my life someday, but day-to-day driving is a PitA with the SBC's.

fubar

W211 Ryda

Since MB is going back to the true & tried traditional master cylinder next year, what are the odds of them retrofitting our Shitty Brake Control system to a master cylinder system? I know it sounds far-fetched, but wouldn't it be wiser to avert any future liabilities by retrofitting? Just imagine your SBC crapping out on you as you approach a crosswalk filled pedestrians.

MB-JIM

I have switched from a 2006 E350 to a 2006 C350. One of my strong motivtors for the switch was to get back to standard hydraulic master cylinder brakes. I also prefer the agility of the C350 while maintaining the great performance of the E350.

BudC

I've been tracking the SBC history as best I can and it appeared early on that the failures were due to incorrect bleeding procedures by dealers. They didn't completely bleed the system. Early on there were some taxis in Europe that had failures caused by a worn pump. These are cases where there were an ungodly number of brake applications. Now that people are warned to take the car in for brake inspections at a fraction of that number of brake applications, I doubt you'll see worn out pumps any more.

There are some instances that have gone unexplained. The people who had the problem did not pursue the cause of the failure. Many dealers didn't have a clue about the SBC system and I think that there are still a lot of them that have minimum or false knowledge about SBC.

After tracking these things for a while, I'm most concerned about the brakes after they've been serviced. So far, I've had excellent and professional service on my car by Phoenix Motors.

My other concern is the cost to maintain them. I wouldn't worry so much if I could still change my own brakes but now that I have to pay brain surgeon fees for someone to do what a kid used to do in gas stations, I'm not too happy about it.

ruykava

BudC: absolutely agree with you.

for fully documented failures of SBC, you have to go to those early taxis. or dealers who screw up.

i've done some crazy braking on my W211 and i know the system will not fail. Mercedes knows this too, otherwise they MOST definitely would have done a complete recall, as W211_Ryda suggested, instead of waiting until something big happens. Mercedes is paranoid about safety - if there's any chance it could be a widespread problem they'd most definitely have done something about it instead of just issuing the mild recall notices they did. so drive with confidence and relax yeah anyway, SBC is dead now. probably a smart marketing decision - not sure how many people have been turned off just by the idea that the brake pedal is electronic.

tpliquid: any news from your mum, man?

tpliquid

dealer said they are getting a engineer in next monday to look at the car. she said there was no brakes when she stepped on the pedal. she had to press really hard to start slowing the car down a bit. but that didnt do the job.

so they are getting rid of SBC in 06 or 07 e class?

BudC

The SBC system lacks vacuum assist so when the system shuts down and reverts to backup, what you have is a master cylinder without vacuum assist. That's why it takes so much pedal pressure.

I've thought about changing the brake system to something else but I'd be afraid that I'd have something that was unsupported and unreliable.

For those who are disatisfied or worried about the SBC braking system, you can choose to replace the W211 with something else or wait until next year and get the revised version. However, before you rush out and get a BMW 3'er or a Lexus GS-430 you had better do your homework because these cars have implemented some of the so-called convenience features of SBC and (at least with the BMW) have their own set of problems.

Would I prefer not to have SBC? Yes I would. Would I sell my car because of it? I don't think so. What can I buy to replace it? The revised brakes coming next year could have their own problems and I'd also be giving up the advantages I have with a 2004.

I've owned German cars since 1957 (off and on) and the E320 is the best of the bunch. It's not built like the older ones but it's the best Interstate Cruiser I've ever driven. The steering may not have the feedback of older BMW's but it's very precise. It's very easy to put the car where you want it w/o any excitement.

So if you have no confidence in the car you'll have to bite the bullet and take a bath on trading. Just be very careful what you replace it with.

Oh BTW, don't try to outbrake a W211, especially in the rain

CE750

I bought my mom an E350 cause I though it would be the safest car for a 75 year old woman to drive.. and she's over there in the Bay Area too.. Now I'm worried.. I wonder if the brakes were adjusted or worked on before this?? Or were they new?

Please keep us posted on the findings..

Spartan

I suppose some of you know that it happened in my '05. Benz replaced my car with an '06. .

And NO, there was no service issue or any particular circumstance when it happened. The weather was perfect, no rain for day, 70 degrees, the car had 17,000 km (12,000 miles) on it and it was FAR from an abused car. In fact, when I drive the Benz, I tend to drive it very sedately. In fact, the car was serviced at HALF the recommended service interval and the brakes were NOT touched. I know because I was right in front of the technician when he did the oil change and some other service work.

I think that some of you should get over the "it can't happen to me" or "bad service" excuses. These failures are random electronic failures and there is no particular set of circumstances that cause them. The last recall had something to do with the wiring harness but we will see if that was just another smoke screen. I suspect it is a smokescreen otherwise why would they get rid of SBC on the 2007?

This is all bad news and the cars are going to get a reputation as deadly lemons. In fact, I think that US posters should launch a class action law suit to claim undue loses in value due to a design defect.

.

Spartan

Well.......try flying through an intersection filled with pedestrians.........and risking your life to make sure you don't hit any of them.

Oh what fun...........

cannga

Off Topic Help Please:
Does this mean next year's CLS will have the revised version as well?? (That is, MB is changing the SBC in every model that currently has it?)
Thanks in advance.