15 minute old new car problem
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 3
From: Sydney, Australia
2018 AMG E63s
15 minute old new car problem
Well i picked up my new E350 Avantgarde sport last night. 
The first time i came to a complete stop was about 15 km from the dealership.
I then noticed that there was this (shunt) (lurch) feeling as if some one had nudged me from behind. Although there was no one there.
It happened again when i came to a complete stop.
This continued till i got home.
I took more notice of it and it seems that when the car is going into 1st gear (after a second or two) it lurches.
Now i didn't notice any thing like this when i drove a demonstrator.
I rang the salesman as the dealership was closed and he said NO THIS IS NOT NORMAL.
This is a brand new car 60 km with the 7 G transmission.
Any one know is this a computer problem or the gearbox itself.
It will be going back on Monday morning.
To say im dissapointed is an understatment.
PS: THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN THE (S) MODE AND NOT IN (C) MODE.
The first time i came to a complete stop was about 15 km from the dealership.
I then noticed that there was this (shunt) (lurch) feeling as if some one had nudged me from behind. Although there was no one there.
It happened again when i came to a complete stop.
This continued till i got home.
I took more notice of it and it seems that when the car is going into 1st gear (after a second or two) it lurches.
Now i didn't notice any thing like this when i drove a demonstrator.
I rang the salesman as the dealership was closed and he said NO THIS IS NOT NORMAL.
This is a brand new car 60 km with the 7 G transmission.
Any one know is this a computer problem or the gearbox itself.
It will be going back on Monday morning.
To say im dissapointed is an understatment.
PS: THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN THE (S) MODE AND NOT IN (C) MODE.
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 755
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From: USA
LS7 powered Corvette
I know there is a new campaign for control unit flashing on a certain vin range of these vehicles. The SA will have to check the VMI to see whether or not your car falls into that category. If its not that, they may just want to check the fluid level(make sure it was correct from the factory) and then readapt the shift operations.
Honestly, mine acts similar but depends on temperature and how I have been driving the car recently.
Oh yea, and never ask a salesman about a technical problem.
Honestly, mine acts similar but depends on temperature and how I have been driving the car recently.
Oh yea, and never ask a salesman about a technical problem.
Last edited by csumt76; Nov 11, 2005 at 05:29 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
I believe it's the lock up torque convertor locking up.. Believe it or not it's normal in slow speed (below 5mph) in some cases. I use it a lot when leaving my house to go down the hill without riding the brakes.. it's something you'll get used to.. and the transmission will smooth out as it learns your driving habits.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by AJU_E350
I seem to have this issue only for the first 10 minutes or so of driving. Basically when the car is still cold. Do you think this is the same issue?
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,143
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From: South Orange County, CA
4 wheels
Mine does the same thing, its normal. Not to worry. As Sam stated, its the lockup torque convertor.
Give the transmission some time to learn your driving patterns, shift points and what not. It will change to your needs.
Give the transmission some time to learn your driving patterns, shift points and what not. It will change to your needs.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 627
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From: The Earth
Mercedes all the way!
yup, it will eventually change and smoothen out. my E did that up to the first few weeks (with the old 5-speeder), and everytime i used manual mode, the gears would crunch so hard that i thought i'd destroyed the transmission.
but after 1000km everything went silky smooth
but after 1000km everything went silky smooth
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Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 755
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From: USA
LS7 powered Corvette
Originally Posted by CE750
I believe it's the lock up torque convertor locking up.. Believe it or not it's normal in slow speed (below 5mph) in some cases. I use it a lot when leaving my house to go down the hill without riding the brakes.. it's something you'll get used to.. and the transmission will smooth out as it learns your driving habits.
The exchange you are feeling is definitely the 2-1 downshift as you stated. That is why you do not notice it in "C" because you are always starting from second gear. As you drive the car and it adapts to your style, it will smooth out as well like everyone else said. Up until you took delivery of the car, it was most likely only driven in very short increments. On/off the boat, at the factory, at the vpc, on/off the truck to the dealer, and then during PDI inspection and detail.
The torque converter is not 100% percent efficient. The max speed the turbine will reach is approx. 90% of the impellar without a lockup clutch. A lot of 2 and 3 speed race cars use a lock up solenoid to put more HP to the ground on the top end. Ok, im done, that felt good.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Sorry if I was wrong, but I got this info from a previous thread on this last week. I know this much..
If I use tiptronic to shift to 1st, and drive down the hill on a cold engine, the car still appears to downshift into a lower gear.. maybe there is something we're all missing here.. since this isn't some "defect" that can be corrected.
If I use tiptronic to shift to 1st, and drive down the hill on a cold engine, the car still appears to downshift into a lower gear.. maybe there is something we're all missing here.. since this isn't some "defect" that can be corrected.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 551
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From: Virginia
2005 Carlsson CD32 E320 CDI Inline-6
Downshifting is not locking up the converter
It is simply propelling the motor through a fluid coupling (the torque converter) versus when you depress the accelerator the motor is propelling the car through the torque converter.
Watch the tach as you downshift, RPM's come up rather slowly. If it were the converter locking up, it would act like a manual transmission in which you select a gear just lower than your speed range, then sidestep the clutch. Likely the tires would "chirp" and the RPM's would catch up very quick if not instantaneously.
The lockup feature is simply a fuel economy/ heat reduction device. It "locks" at cruise speed to change from a fluid coupling to a mechanical coupling. The transmission input RPM is identical to engine RPM when in lock mode.
Older cars (in fact, a 1996-1999 E300D and E300 Turbodiesel) do not even have a lockup converter. Yet, they can still be downshifted to use engine compression for braking.
Watch the tach as you downshift, RPM's come up rather slowly. If it were the converter locking up, it would act like a manual transmission in which you select a gear just lower than your speed range, then sidestep the clutch. Likely the tires would "chirp" and the RPM's would catch up very quick if not instantaneously.
The lockup feature is simply a fuel economy/ heat reduction device. It "locks" at cruise speed to change from a fluid coupling to a mechanical coupling. The transmission input RPM is identical to engine RPM when in lock mode.
Older cars (in fact, a 1996-1999 E300D and E300 Turbodiesel) do not even have a lockup converter. Yet, they can still be downshifted to use engine compression for braking.
Last edited by cdiken; Nov 11, 2005 at 08:00 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 178
From: Seattle WA
99 E320
2000 E320 4matic did this. I had 39k on the odo. I brought it in and they
proceeded to clear the tranny memory thing. Didn't work. So they swapped
out the control box and I drove it a bit to see if it would do the 'relearn' trick.
Still lurched while coming to a stop at single digit speeds. So they put in a
new tranny (Starmarked covered). No lurching for the past 2 weeks now.
I also have a 99 E320. Up and down shifts are like butter. I find it hard to
detect the shift point if I'm not really trying to discern when they're shifting...
it's that smooth.
"It's normal" ....yeah, for a Merkin car, but not for a Benz, I opine.
proceeded to clear the tranny memory thing. Didn't work. So they swapped
out the control box and I drove it a bit to see if it would do the 'relearn' trick.
Still lurched while coming to a stop at single digit speeds. So they put in a
new tranny (Starmarked covered). No lurching for the past 2 weeks now.
I also have a 99 E320. Up and down shifts are like butter. I find it hard to
detect the shift point if I'm not really trying to discern when they're shifting...
it's that smooth.
"It's normal" ....yeah, for a Merkin car, but not for a Benz, I opine.
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From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally Posted by [MB]CRS
It is absolutely not the torque converter.. If you are driving 5mph below and the converter locks it will kill the engine. The lockup clutch is continually slipping but not locked. The only time the converter will lock is at a steady cruising speed where torque multiplication is not needed.. Locking the converter in this cars case, simply elimates the frictional loss of the torque converter which improves fuel mileage.
The exchange you are feeling is definitely the 2-1 downshift as you stated. That is why you do not notice it in "C" because you are always starting from second gear. As you drive the car and it adapts to your style, it will smooth out as well like everyone else said. Up until you took delivery of the car, it was most likely only driven in very short increments. On/off the boat, at the factory, at the vpc, on/off the truck to the dealer, and then during PDI inspection and detail.
The torque converter is not 100% percent efficient. The max speed the turbine will reach is approx. 90% of the impellar without a lockup clutch. A lot of 2 and 3 speed race cars use a lock up solenoid to put more HP to the ground on the top end. Ok, im done, that felt good.
The exchange you are feeling is definitely the 2-1 downshift as you stated. That is why you do not notice it in "C" because you are always starting from second gear. As you drive the car and it adapts to your style, it will smooth out as well like everyone else said. Up until you took delivery of the car, it was most likely only driven in very short increments. On/off the boat, at the factory, at the vpc, on/off the truck to the dealer, and then during PDI inspection and detail.
The torque converter is not 100% percent efficient. The max speed the turbine will reach is approx. 90% of the impellar without a lockup clutch. A lot of 2 and 3 speed race cars use a lock up solenoid to put more HP to the ground on the top end. Ok, im done, that felt good.
My E55 did it for the first few hundred miles as did my E500 with 7G. If the symptom still exists, I don't feel it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,017
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Its a very pronounced abrupt downshift into 1st gear when you are coming to a stop. It happens mostly untill the car is thoroughly warmed up, and then is lessens in sverity. It doesn't happen in C because the car is not starting in 1st, but rather in 2nd gear. In my opinion I feel there should be a software update to correct this, but the dealers say there isnt. The "bump" will decrease in severity in time, and you will also "get used" to it and won't feel it. I don't think this 7 speed is as "silky smooth" as MB would have us all believe, and to me, it sometimes is confused as to what gear it should downshift into when you are making a right or left hand turn onto another street and slowing down at the same time, but it does a pretty good job of delivering the power to the wheels, and it makes for a quick getaway from a traffic light... also the Highway gas milage is pretty remarkable for a car this fast, and luxurious.
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 190
Likes: 22
E class, C class
hey mate, i got my E350 about 7 months ago, so far with 2500km. i had a slight problem with the gearbox when the car is 2 months old. The gearbox went from D to 1 while i was slowly accelerating away from the traffic lights. The car was vibrating and it refuse to accelerate over 50km/h. I pulled the car to one side, shut it down, wait for about 10 min and start it up again, the car went back to normal and nothing has happened ever since that. The dealer has checked the car, but they couldn't find anything wrong with it.
I hope they can fix up your car soon btw which dealer did u purchase your car from?
I hope they can fix up your car soon btw which dealer did u purchase your car from?
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
Harley-Davidson
Originally Posted by Aussie-E-John
Well i picked up my new E350 Avantgarde sport last night.
The first time i came to a complete stop was about 15 km from the dealership.
I then noticed that there was this (shunt) (lurch) feeling as if some one had nudged me from behind. Although there was no one there.
It happened again when i came to a complete stop.
This continued till i got home.
I took more notice of it and it seems that when the car is going into 1st gear (after a second or two) it lurches.
PS: THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN THE (S) MODE AND NOT IN (C) MODE.
The first time i came to a complete stop was about 15 km from the dealership.
I then noticed that there was this (shunt) (lurch) feeling as if some one had nudged me from behind. Although there was no one there.
It happened again when i came to a complete stop.
This continued till i got home.
I took more notice of it and it seems that when the car is going into 1st gear (after a second or two) it lurches.
PS: THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN THE (S) MODE AND NOT IN (C) MODE.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,968
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by cyclerider
If I remember correctly, it is recommended to spend the first 1000 miles of break-in using the "C" mode. I never understood why; perhaps it is the answer to your "problem". I would wait a while before I let the service department tear into it, and see if it settles down.
btw..
Another Harley / E-class owner!
"Hell on a Harley" and you should get on well!
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,632
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Originally Posted by [MB]CRS
The exchange you are feeling is definitely the 2-1 downshift as you stated. That is why you do not notice it in "C" because you are always starting from second gear. As you drive the car and it adapts to your style, it will smooth out as well like everyone else said.
Also, P-B-27.60/53 MAR05 – Rough downshifting when accelerating calls to install software # 000 448 38 10.
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 755
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From: USA
LS7 powered Corvette
Originally Posted by konigstiger
Doesn’t bulletin P-B-27.60/61 OCT05 specifically apply to this rough shift quality? It calls for software updates of the ECU & TCU.
Also, P-B-27.60/53 MAR05 – Rough downshifting when accelerating calls to install software # 000 448 38 10.
Also, P-B-27.60/53 MAR05 – Rough downshifting when accelerating calls to install software # 000 448 38 10.
PB276053, is in the 5-4-3 shift range when accelerating around 40mph. Only a software change.
The new campaign for control unit flashing of the 06 E is dependent upon the VIN range and VMI data.
DAS software is updated monthly and will always have the latest control unit data/patch to flash with the newest version. A specific DTB could be revised at any time to include new information and software.
Too many variables, I can't post all the info. Bottom line, if you think you have a problem get it to the dealer and see what they can do. A good tech would be knowledgeable of all the latest DTB's related to the 722.9 and be familiar with EDAC procedure if replacement of the trans or a repair is needed.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,632
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Originally Posted by [MB]CRS
Bottom line, if you think you have a problem get it to the dealer and see what they can do. A good tech would be knowledgeable of all the latest DTB's related to the 722.9 and be familiar with EDAC procedure if replacement of the trans or a repair is needed.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 3
From: Sydney, Australia
2018 AMG E63s
Thanks for the many replies
I did a bit of running around yesterday with my wife and our 3 kids and at first i felt like the problem gone away.
Strange thing though as the car warmed up the problem came back although not as often as the day i picked it up. It didn't happen at every stop like the day before.
I also noticed it does not do it when coming to a stop up a hill. But is noticable when stoppping on flat or down hill.
It also only happens after the car has come to a complete stop.
Then after about a second you feel the gear going into first and the feeling of a bump (as my wife described it).
I do remember this thing happening to my 8 year old E320 but only when it when i came to a sudden or emergency stop.
It was as if the gearbox was trying to down shift to catch up the the rapid deceleration then it would shunt into first gear.
We are going out today so i'll see if there is any improvement. I am hoping as some of you have said that it is learning my driving style and will improve over time and go away.
W211_E350 I bought my E350 from G brothers in Mona Vale. Very nice people to deal with. My wife and i bought a ML500 from them in April 2003 and have been very happy with the way they have treated us.
I did a bit of running around yesterday with my wife and our 3 kids and at first i felt like the problem gone away.
Strange thing though as the car warmed up the problem came back although not as often as the day i picked it up. It didn't happen at every stop like the day before.
I also noticed it does not do it when coming to a stop up a hill. But is noticable when stoppping on flat or down hill.
It also only happens after the car has come to a complete stop.
Then after about a second you feel the gear going into first and the feeling of a bump (as my wife described it).
I do remember this thing happening to my 8 year old E320 but only when it when i came to a sudden or emergency stop.
It was as if the gearbox was trying to down shift to catch up the the rapid deceleration then it would shunt into first gear.
We are going out today so i'll see if there is any improvement. I am hoping as some of you have said that it is learning my driving style and will improve over time and go away.
W211_E350 I bought my E350 from G brothers in Mona Vale. Very nice people to deal with. My wife and i bought a ML500 from them in April 2003 and have been very happy with the way they have treated us.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Longmont, CO
04 E320 4 Matic, 95 Audi S6, 99 Carrera 4 Cabrio, 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 00 BMW R1200C 10, BMW R1200R
I think that there is a lot of cross talking here. The toque converter on MB transmissions has been able to lock in 2,3,4 and 5th gears since 1998. The issue here is if the new 7G transmission even locks the torque converter in 2nd gear and if so, this might not even be the problem.
True, most automatic transmissions only locked the torque converter at cruising speeds. But MB has decided to do it in lower gears too since sometimes these cars tow a lot of weight and 2nd and 3rd gear end up doing a lot of work to go up hills. You might notice, if you live where there are hills, that the transmission will not up shift when you ease up on the gas pedal. The transmission will only up shift (amazingly) at the top of the hill. I think that it does this because it has locked the torque converter to go up the hill.
I am curious to hear what the problem ends up being. I personally can sometimes feel a very slight vibration (barely noticeable) when the torque converter unlocks in 2nd gear at low speeds. If I have been coating in 2nd and then I might give it a bit a gas to accelerate and the car downshifts to 1st because of the slow speed. Other than this very slight shudder, my car has been completely smooth from day one!
I hope that this issue gets resolved,
Steve
True, most automatic transmissions only locked the torque converter at cruising speeds. But MB has decided to do it in lower gears too since sometimes these cars tow a lot of weight and 2nd and 3rd gear end up doing a lot of work to go up hills. You might notice, if you live where there are hills, that the transmission will not up shift when you ease up on the gas pedal. The transmission will only up shift (amazingly) at the top of the hill. I think that it does this because it has locked the torque converter to go up the hill.
I am curious to hear what the problem ends up being. I personally can sometimes feel a very slight vibration (barely noticeable) when the torque converter unlocks in 2nd gear at low speeds. If I have been coating in 2nd and then I might give it a bit a gas to accelerate and the car downshifts to 1st because of the slow speed. Other than this very slight shudder, my car has been completely smooth from day one!
I hope that this issue gets resolved,
Steve
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
My .02.....
What you are experiencing is not 'normal' with the engine hot or cold and anyone that would put up with it has high tolerance for abnormal car behavior. Does anyone think MB consciously designed a transmission that violently kicks into gear after a stop? Stay on them until it's fixed or demand a full refund. If necessary go class action....there seems to be enough people just on this board that are putting up with it to warrant drastic action. I have experienced what you describe and it's not acceptable. Unfortunately sometimes you need to keep taking it in, escalating, and wasting precious time, before they do anything about it. The more you put up with and accept it the less chance of getting it repaired properly. Unless $XXX CDN isn't a lot of money to you and you think you got what you paid for.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 3
From: Sydney, Australia
2018 AMG E63s
Hi all.
I took the car back to the dealer's service department first thing this morning.
I had a technician sitting in the car with me and took the car for a drive. We did 3 stops from various speeds. The shunt happened on all 3 stops.
20 minutes in the work shop and i was told that there was no data in the computer to tell the gearbox when to shift from 2nd gear down to 1st.
They re set the computer and re installed all data as per factory specs.
We took the car for another drive. Did 3 stops and there wasn't any shunt.
I drove the car home and then to work and so far there hasn't been a problem. I will see this afternoon when i drive the car home but i am hopeful the problem has be rectified.
Now i can enjoy my new ride.
I took the car back to the dealer's service department first thing this morning.
I had a technician sitting in the car with me and took the car for a drive. We did 3 stops from various speeds. The shunt happened on all 3 stops.
20 minutes in the work shop and i was told that there was no data in the computer to tell the gearbox when to shift from 2nd gear down to 1st.
They re set the computer and re installed all data as per factory specs.
We took the car for another drive. Did 3 stops and there wasn't any shunt.
I drove the car home and then to work and so far there hasn't been a problem. I will see this afternoon when i drive the car home but i am hopeful the problem has be rectified.
Now i can enjoy my new ride.
Last edited by Aussie-E-John; Nov 13, 2005 at 10:33 PM.
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Keep us posted please. I hope it's fixed. I am annoyed that the dealer has taken so long to figure it out if they did find a problem. Fancy technical gizmos are great when they work but worthless if they can't be fixed. I think the basic engineering of the 7G is great but so far the support of that engineering is suspect. I am thinking that the 350 & 7G will be my next MB platform choice but won't be a test animal again. No need to with today's automotive invironment benchmarked by Japanese quality. First at something that isn't reliable makes no sense.
