Why are MB vehicles so (too??) expensive? And, no, this is not a "troll" post. (more)
11-25-2005, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lig
Reality check here:
The fact remains that many of us have not had the same experience.
The fact remains that many of us have not had the same experience.
11-25-2005, 05:08 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Originally Posted by HELL ONA HARLEY
Guess this is the reason for different attitudes here...
Agreed. I'm certainly not denying that M-B has made a bunch of trouble free cars. It's just that they happened to make some not-so-troublefree ones and probably made more of them than in the past.
11-25-2005, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lig
Reality check here:
My early '03 E320 was an electrical nightmare. It sounds like the great majority of those problems seem to be worked out by now.
It did suck being a $53,000+ guinea pig though.
My service advisior was very helpful and understanding (and I usually got a C class loaner) but those multiple trips for service shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.
Those of you in denial about M-Bs drop in quality - I am glad you guys in particular have had trouble free cars.
The fact remains that many of us have not had the same experience.
As proof why on earth would M-B make quality improvements their stated goal if there were no problems to begin with? It doesn't make sense.
"Mercedes, Quality Dropping, Loses Market Share to BMW, Lexus
Bloomberg February 8, 2005 Jeremy Van Loon in Frankfurt jvanloon@bloomberg.net.
Dan Stets at dstets@bloomberg.net.
Dominik Wendel got fed up with his Mercedes SLK 350 sports car. First, the convertible roof leaked. Then it wouldn't open properly, sending him back to the garage at least five times. The car also whistled on the autobahn.
“I was not very satisfied with the quality,'' said Wendel, 40, a lawyer with the Frankfurt-based firm Noerr Stiefenhofer Lutz. Last year he bought a Lexus SC 430 from Toyota Motor Corp.
Mercedes has plunged in customer satisfaction surveys in Germany and the U.S., partly because of technical flaws. The world's largest luxury carmaker has lost sales to Bayerische Motoren Werke AG and Toyota, and profit is falling. Tomorrow, Mercedes's parent, DaimlerChrysler AG, probably will say fourth- quarter net income more than halved to 634 million euros ($821 million), according to 14 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg.
Eckhard Cordes, who took over in October as chief executive officer of Stuttgart, Germany-based Mercedes Car Group, has pledged to reverse the slide. A 29-year DaimlerChrysler veteran, Cordes, 54, says he plans to cut costs to counter the impact of the U.S. dollar's 16 percent decline against the euro in the past two years. Mercedes already negotiated 500 million euros in savings with German workers in 2004. Cordes also says he'll make sure cars produced now meet the company's quality standards.
``Each customer lost is very difficult to win back,'' says Michael Schneider, a fund manager at Frankfurt-based Deka Investment GmbH, which oversees about $144 billion in assets and owns DaimlerChrysler shares. ``It will take time to improve their image.''
Electronic Failures - DaimlerChrysler shares fell 4.7 percent last year, compared with a 15 percent stock gain by Toyota, which is based in central Japan's Aichi prefecture. They closed at 36.16 euros yesterday.
Mercedes-Benz, which makes the S-Class luxury sedan and the A- Class compact hatchback, ranked 29th out of 37 brands in a June reliability study of 3-year-old cars by Westlake Village, California-based J.D. Power & Associates. It logged 327 defects per 100 vehicles, worse than the U.S. industry average. Four years earlier, Mercedes scored seventh out of 38 brands, with 308 defects per 100 vehicles
At home, Mercedes-Benz had the most electronic failures of all brands sold in Germany, Michelstadt, Germany-based automotive consulting firm 3hm Automotive said in July. It was also last among 33 brands in a March study gauging customer satisfaction by the ADAC German Automobile Club. Car owners were most satisfied with Toyota. Munich-based BMW ranked ninth.
Quality deteriorated at Mercedes, known for its star symbol, as DaimlerChrysler focused on reorganizing Chrysler Group in the U.S. and expanding in Asia with its unprofitable affiliate, Mitsubishi Motors Corp., says Michael Raab, an analyst at Sal Oppenheim in Frankfurt."
My early '03 E320 was an electrical nightmare. It sounds like the great majority of those problems seem to be worked out by now.
It did suck being a $53,000+ guinea pig though.
My service advisior was very helpful and understanding (and I usually got a C class loaner) but those multiple trips for service shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.
Those of you in denial about M-Bs drop in quality - I am glad you guys in particular have had trouble free cars.
The fact remains that many of us have not had the same experience.
As proof why on earth would M-B make quality improvements their stated goal if there were no problems to begin with? It doesn't make sense.
"Mercedes, Quality Dropping, Loses Market Share to BMW, Lexus
Bloomberg February 8, 2005 Jeremy Van Loon in Frankfurt jvanloon@bloomberg.net.
Dan Stets at dstets@bloomberg.net.
Dominik Wendel got fed up with his Mercedes SLK 350 sports car. First, the convertible roof leaked. Then it wouldn't open properly, sending him back to the garage at least five times. The car also whistled on the autobahn.
“I was not very satisfied with the quality,'' said Wendel, 40, a lawyer with the Frankfurt-based firm Noerr Stiefenhofer Lutz. Last year he bought a Lexus SC 430 from Toyota Motor Corp.
Mercedes has plunged in customer satisfaction surveys in Germany and the U.S., partly because of technical flaws. The world's largest luxury carmaker has lost sales to Bayerische Motoren Werke AG and Toyota, and profit is falling. Tomorrow, Mercedes's parent, DaimlerChrysler AG, probably will say fourth- quarter net income more than halved to 634 million euros ($821 million), according to 14 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg.
Eckhard Cordes, who took over in October as chief executive officer of Stuttgart, Germany-based Mercedes Car Group, has pledged to reverse the slide. A 29-year DaimlerChrysler veteran, Cordes, 54, says he plans to cut costs to counter the impact of the U.S. dollar's 16 percent decline against the euro in the past two years. Mercedes already negotiated 500 million euros in savings with German workers in 2004. Cordes also says he'll make sure cars produced now meet the company's quality standards.
``Each customer lost is very difficult to win back,'' says Michael Schneider, a fund manager at Frankfurt-based Deka Investment GmbH, which oversees about $144 billion in assets and owns DaimlerChrysler shares. ``It will take time to improve their image.''
Electronic Failures - DaimlerChrysler shares fell 4.7 percent last year, compared with a 15 percent stock gain by Toyota, which is based in central Japan's Aichi prefecture. They closed at 36.16 euros yesterday.
Mercedes-Benz, which makes the S-Class luxury sedan and the A- Class compact hatchback, ranked 29th out of 37 brands in a June reliability study of 3-year-old cars by Westlake Village, California-based J.D. Power & Associates. It logged 327 defects per 100 vehicles, worse than the U.S. industry average. Four years earlier, Mercedes scored seventh out of 38 brands, with 308 defects per 100 vehicles
At home, Mercedes-Benz had the most electronic failures of all brands sold in Germany, Michelstadt, Germany-based automotive consulting firm 3hm Automotive said in July. It was also last among 33 brands in a March study gauging customer satisfaction by the ADAC German Automobile Club. Car owners were most satisfied with Toyota. Munich-based BMW ranked ninth.
Quality deteriorated at Mercedes, known for its star symbol, as DaimlerChrysler focused on reorganizing Chrysler Group in the U.S. and expanding in Asia with its unprofitable affiliate, Mitsubishi Motors Corp., says Michael Raab, an analyst at Sal Oppenheim in Frankfurt."
It is about time people started talking about what MB has done in the past couple of years to oversee a failure in their high standards of quality control. Herr Diesche has indicated in a recent interview that returning MB to their prior status is not "rocket science" but concentration on doing it right the first time. I am convinced he knows where he is going and how he is going to get there.
Again my concern is not about what Lexus has or what Toyota stock is worth. My concerns and the reason I participate in this forum is to talk about MB, have problems solved, get hints on TSB's, etc. Also keep in mind, many people here complain about certain features the Japanese have but MB doesn't...they are usually about seat softness, NAV images, and other minor conveniences or just "why can't MB do that." If you want those features, buy the competition or wait for the MB version.
If I have a problem you will hear about it but it will not change my mind about the car. I will have my SA take care of it and drive on, not cry the sky is falling.
11-25-2005, 05:16 PM
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W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by JWS3
OK, guys-- Serious question from an enthusiast and not troll bait. But first, a bit of background...........
4) Anything else to be added? Discuss?
4) Anything else to be added? Discuss?
11-25-2005, 05:24 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
Where do these Chrysler stories start and where the hell are all these electrical problems and MB's falling apart by the 100's.
Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning here, Jack. In reference to electrical problems it sounded to me suspiciously like a river that flows through Egypt.
Last edited by lig; 11-25-2005 at 05:40 PM.
11-25-2005, 05:56 PM
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I am sorry, but I do not follow what you are trying to say.
Originally Posted by benzmodz
*wishes you to move to Singapore*
Hey, I am not trying to be difficult, but was sufficiently surprised after driving recent and much lower priced makes that I felt the urge to post. My memory of the magnitude of difference was much greater than the unpleasant reality I could not deny after driving, of all things, a SUBARU!!! If anyone is in denial here, it should be me!!
11-25-2005, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lig
Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning here, Jack. In reference to electrical problems it sounded to me suspiciously like a river that flows through Egypt.
Took me a minute to figure out your reference...:-)
11-25-2005, 06:19 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
If the board is any indication - it does seem that the newer W211s are much better now than my ill fated '03.Best of luck on that beautiful S Class. I'm so glad you chose that over the R.
11-25-2005, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lig
If the board is any indication - it does seem that the newer W211s are much better now than my ill fated '03.Best of luck on that beautiful S Class. I'm so glad you chose that over the R.
Hope to see you posting a pic of your new MB sometime soon...:-)
11-25-2005, 06:34 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Never say never. The wifey will be needing a new car in a year or two.
I think she would look hot in an SLK55. She got tired of my *****ing about my E though (kind of like you guys) :p
The wifey will be needing a new car in a year or two.I think she would look hot in an SLK55. She got tired of my *****ing about my E though (kind of like you guys) :p
11-25-2005, 06:44 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by gsrthomas
Once chrylser bought out MB reliabiliy of the electrical components went down the tube.
And there is NO chrysler engineering at MB.. I will say that Chrysler drained $$ from MB, but there was no parts,technology, or anything sent over from Detroit to Stuttgart.
As for prices..
a 1981 300D cost $35K, and a 2006 E320CDI costs $51K
Adjusting for inflation the new CDI is a bargain compared to the D..
I agree MB has gone backwards from their glory days, but they're still by far the best auto marker that I can afford to buy from!
11-25-2005, 07:50 PM
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Mercedes all the way!
realised i'm repeating what i've said in other threads, but....
my 2003 E-class is the most reliable car i've ever bought. period. better than the W124 220E i had for the previous 13 years (skipped the W210). ok, so the W124 did more than 200k miles, but still, when it was about 5 years old it started to act up badly - stalling on intersections, very rough gearshifts, meters failing everywhere, rattling. and it is nothing as luxurious as the W211. this experience is similar to most others i know personally, too - none of my friends ever had problems on their W211(besides trying to navigate COMAND for the first time, lol).
so i think lots of ppl here are looking at old times a little too romantically. then again, the W124 WAS hugely better than anything else on the market at the time of its introduction...
as someone mentioned above, other cars are rapidly getting better and better. you can hardly find a "bad" car nowadays, if at all! i'm eagerly waiting to get my sweaty palms on a W221 to see if THAT will really blow the competition away. after all i've driven the W220, 7-series, and A8 now. time to see what Merc can really do when they try doubly hard...
my 2003 E-class is the most reliable car i've ever bought. period. better than the W124 220E i had for the previous 13 years (skipped the W210). ok, so the W124 did more than 200k miles, but still, when it was about 5 years old it started to act up badly - stalling on intersections, very rough gearshifts, meters failing everywhere, rattling. and it is nothing as luxurious as the W211. this experience is similar to most others i know personally, too - none of my friends ever had problems on their W211(besides trying to navigate COMAND for the first time, lol).
so i think lots of ppl here are looking at old times a little too romantically. then again, the W124 WAS hugely better than anything else on the market at the time of its introduction...
as someone mentioned above, other cars are rapidly getting better and better. you can hardly find a "bad" car nowadays, if at all! i'm eagerly waiting to get my sweaty palms on a W221 to see if THAT will really blow the competition away. after all i've driven the W220, 7-series, and A8 now. time to see what Merc can really do when they try doubly hard...
11-25-2005, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CE750
Check your CNBC Squakbox Tivo.... MB bough out Chrysler..
And there is NO chrysler engineering at MB.. I will say that Chrysler drained $$ from MB, but there was no parts,technology, or anything sent over from Detroit to Stuttgart.
And there is NO chrysler engineering at MB.. I will say that Chrysler drained $$ from MB, but there was no parts,technology, or anything sent over from Detroit to Stuttgart.
Better rewind the tape on your VCR and check again. It was a MARKETING MERGER....nobody bought anybody:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9...hrysler.merger/
http://www.roadfly.com/magazine/11/m..._problems.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/p...ess012154.html
You are now seeing Mercedes suspensions and parts in Chrysler products (witness the 300C advertising), and judging from the current quality of Mercedes cars, there are no doubt Chrysler parts and technology (cost-cutting by using cheaper parts and electronics) in Mercedes products. They are also sharing markets.......more Chryslers sold in Europe, and hopefully more MB sold in the U.S.
11-25-2005, 08:08 PM
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Hyundai? Subaru? show me a rear wheel drive car that has a diesel motor thats sold in the states? there is no comparison.. I admit though if other manufacturers came out with a RWD Diesel Car I probably would have looked elsewhere. Only reason I chose this car was cause of the diesel motor.
11-25-2005, 08:47 PM
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2023 GLC 300 4MATIC
My 98 Accord which I gave to my son, while very very reliable, now rides like a truck. My friends 1987 260E still rides like new. Perhaps this is a difference.
11-25-2005, 09:03 PM
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W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by JWS3
What does this mean, exactly?
Hey, I am not trying to be difficult, but was sufficiently surprised after driving recent and much lower priced makes that I felt the urge to post. My memory of the magnitude of difference was much greater than the unpleasant reality I could not deny after driving, of all things, a SUBARU!!! If anyone is in denial here, it should be me!!
Hey, I am not trying to be difficult, but was sufficiently surprised after driving recent and much lower priced makes that I felt the urge to post. My memory of the magnitude of difference was much greater than the unpleasant reality I could not deny after driving, of all things, a SUBARU!!! If anyone is in denial here, it should be me!!
Australians generally look at posts like this and think that your next $5000 invest should be on travel outside the USA so that when you get home you will have the overwhelming urge to kiss the tarmac at the airport when you get out of the plane. You have it easy and these apparent differences you refer to are so incredibly small that it doesnt even raise an eyebrow here.
11-25-2005, 09:15 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by rjm
Better rewind the tape on your VCR and check again. It was a MARKETING MERGER....nobody bought anybody:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9...hrysler.merger/
http://www.roadfly.com/magazine/11/m..._problems.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/p...ess012154.html
You are now seeing Mercedes suspensions and parts in Chrysler products (witness the 300C advertising), and judging from the current quality of Mercedes cars, there are no doubt Chrysler parts and technology (cost-cutting by using cheaper parts and electronics) in Mercedes products. They are also sharing markets.......more Chryslers sold in Europe, and hopefully more MB sold in the U.S.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9...hrysler.merger/
http://www.roadfly.com/magazine/11/m..._problems.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/p...ess012154.html
You are now seeing Mercedes suspensions and parts in Chrysler products (witness the 300C advertising), and judging from the current quality of Mercedes cars, there are no doubt Chrysler parts and technology (cost-cutting by using cheaper parts and electronics) in Mercedes products. They are also sharing markets.......more Chryslers sold in Europe, and hopefully more MB sold in the U.S.
IT was called and masked as a "merger" for political reasons.. the Capital Transaction was "Diamler" buy "Chrysler" thus the leadership structure today.. All German.
11-25-2005, 10:07 PM
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Sounds like you guys are the victims of an oppressive government (more)
Originally Posted by benzmodz
If you lived in Singapore you would be lucky to own a car. Certainly there would be about 100x less ownership than there is in the USA in the 20-35 demographic. What I paid for my C180 would have bought me a C320 USA with money left over for Sunman mods maybe even a C32.
Australians generally look at posts like this and think that your next $5000 invest should be on travel outside the USA so that when you get home you will have the overwhelming urge to kiss the tarmac at the airport when you get out of the plane. You have it easy and these apparent differences you refer to are so incredibly small that it doesnt even raise an eyebrow here.
Australians generally look at posts like this and think that your next $5000 invest should be on travel outside the USA so that when you get home you will have the overwhelming urge to kiss the tarmac at the airport when you get out of the plane. You have it easy and these apparent differences you refer to are so incredibly small that it doesnt even raise an eyebrow here.
You are right- we Americans do have it good. We value our freedom and have fought many a war to keep it. I personally would never stand for the complete socialist bullsh*t you describe. Any government that would inflict such utter garbage on its citizens needs to be cleaned out and fast. There are a few reasons the US is the last remaining superpower and personal freedom is fairly high on the list. We are hardly a perfect society, but one thing is for sure--a heavily taxed people seldom prospers.
11-26-2005, 03:18 AM
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ML 320 CDI
My E just had its 3rd birthday and has hit 50,000 miles. Not many miles for an MB but it rides and looks as new. Everyone who gets in is amazed by the ride quality etc. Now show me a japanese car that after 3yrs still looks and feels this good. They age badly in the fact that the interiors are boring to start off with, the styling is boring to start off with and after 3yrs the whole damn car looks like a 1970's styling nightmare.
11-26-2005, 04:59 AM
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After 3 years - my S2000 still looks good (at least to me) and after 13 years our Lexus still runs beautifully and the leather is still very supple.
My S2000 has seen numerous track days and is the 2004 & 2005 WWSCC Auto-X Championship winning car in Improved A. It's three years old (and the design debuted in MY2000) and IMO it still looks great.
Come to think of it 76,000 of your fellow Brits just voted the S2000 the #1 car in the Top Gear poll for the 2nd time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/top_10.shtml
My S2000 has seen numerous track days and is the 2004 & 2005 WWSCC Auto-X Championship winning car in Improved A. It's three years old (and the design debuted in MY2000) and IMO it still looks great.
Come to think of it 76,000 of your fellow Brits just voted the S2000 the #1 car in the Top Gear poll for the 2nd time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/top_10.shtml
Last edited by lig; 11-26-2005 at 05:02 AM.
11-26-2005, 08:15 AM
#46
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ML 320 CDI
Originally Posted by lig
After 3 years - my S2000 still looks good (at least to me) and after 13 years our Lexus still runs beautifully and the leather is still very supple.
My S2000 has seen numerous track days and is the 2004 & 2005 WWSCC Auto-X Championship winning car in Improved A. It's three years old (and the design debuted in MY2000) and IMO it still looks great.
Come to think of it 76,000 of your fellow Brits just voted the S2000 the #1 car in the Top Gear poll for the 2nd time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/top_10.shtml
My S2000 has seen numerous track days and is the 2004 & 2005 WWSCC Auto-X Championship winning car in Improved A. It's three years old (and the design debuted in MY2000) and IMO it still looks great.
Come to think of it 76,000 of your fellow Brits just voted the S2000 the #1 car in the Top Gear poll for the 2nd time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/top_10.shtml
With regard to the S2000 coming top in the Top Gear poll, it's a joke, no one with a brain ever votes on this crap so it's fairly pointless really. I don't mean to offend you dude as I like the S2000 but the poll is utter rubbish.
11-26-2005, 12:11 PM
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Originally Posted by marcos
With regard to the S2000 coming top in the Top Gear poll, it's a joke, no one with a brain ever votes on this crap so it's fairly pointless really. I don't mean to offend you dude as I like the S2000 but the poll is utter rubbish.
It seems that Clarkson likes it too. As far as Lexus design goes... I think the only one that really looked good was the 1st Gen. SC400/300. For a fifteen year old design it has held up really nicely IMO. There really isn't another Lexus model that really struck me as being a paragon of style.
I do like the new IS though.
As far as other Japanese designs that I think have been successful...
I like the last generation RX-7. I think the 1990 era 300ZXs held up well. The current Inifinti G35 coupe is a very handsome car IMO as well.
Last edited by lig; 11-26-2005 at 12:20 PM.
11-26-2005, 08:12 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lig
I like the last generation RX-7. I think the 1990 era 300ZXs held up well. The current Inifinti G35 coupe is a very handsome car IMO as well.
11-27-2005, 02:37 AM
#49
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OK... I'll stick mine in this for a bit. I am a Mechanical Engineer and am familiar with structural isuues such as dynamic torsional and tensile strength as well as torsional geometric force. Over time, these forces are acting upon all parts and systems in an automobile. The failure of automobiles with inferior design and engineering in these areas will inevetably fail prematurely.
At the end of the day only MB, BMW, Audi, Volvo and a few of the Bentlys and VW products excell in these engineering areas. Go to a salvage yard and look at cars that have been in total loss accidents and look at the "bones" of the cars. Toyotas/Lexus and Nissan/Infinity don't have the fundamental engineering that the German cars do.
The German cars have structural superiority in these areas of engineering that don't allow these aforementioned forces to act upon them as readily or have as much long term negative effect as others do.
Believe me...we get what we pay for in a better all around piece of equipment.
Drive a Honda Accord or Lexus/Toyota whatever for a week then get back in your E Class or S Class...then you will know.
At the end of the day only MB, BMW, Audi, Volvo and a few of the Bentlys and VW products excell in these engineering areas. Go to a salvage yard and look at cars that have been in total loss accidents and look at the "bones" of the cars. Toyotas/Lexus and Nissan/Infinity don't have the fundamental engineering that the German cars do.
The German cars have structural superiority in these areas of engineering that don't allow these aforementioned forces to act upon them as readily or have as much long term negative effect as others do.
Believe me...we get what we pay for in a better all around piece of equipment.
Drive a Honda Accord or Lexus/Toyota whatever for a week then get back in your E Class or S Class...then you will know.
11-27-2005, 06:56 AM
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W203 slightly modified
Originally Posted by JWS3
Are you really taxed that heavily? If yes, why havn't you thrown the government out on its collective butt?
You are right- we Americans do have it good. We value our freedom and have fought many a war to keep it. I personally would never stand for the complete socialist bullsh*t you describe. Any government that would inflict such utter garbage on its citizens needs to be cleaned out and fast. There are a few reasons the US is the last remaining superpower and personal freedom is fairly high on the list. We are hardly a perfect society, but one thing is for sure--a heavily taxed people seldom prospers.
You are right- we Americans do have it good. We value our freedom and have fought many a war to keep it. I personally would never stand for the complete socialist bullsh*t you describe. Any government that would inflict such utter garbage on its citizens needs to be cleaned out and fast. There are a few reasons the US is the last remaining superpower and personal freedom is fairly high on the list. We are hardly a perfect society, but one thing is for sure--a heavily taxed people seldom prospers.
We have a country that is bigger than the USA has 10x less people and is 20,000 miles further from Germany than you are. The problem is with inefficient staffing and useless corporate policy. We get to pay so much for cars because there are too many tiers in pricing.
As a stunt, I tried to apply for work as a technical advisor in Mercedes Benz Australia. The woman that spoke to me on the phone had no idea what I was talking about, didnt ask me one relevant question and wasnt the least bit interested in telling me who the technical #1 was or what the minimum requirements are for being considered.
Ok so if experience, knowledge and passion cant get you a job in Mercedes Australia then exactly what incentive is there to improve the pricing ? The more they charge the more of these "talented" scouts they can hire. I told one of my mentors who is a respected engineer and he couldnt speak for about 15 seconds.
