ATS

I looked at the new brochure and there is no refrence of any kind to Sensotronic or SBC, all that it states electrohydraulic brakes. Same with the new S class brochure.

It is funny in a way, both brochures go into detail about everything the car has to over, the thing they leave out is any brake info, kinda' comical..

w212

i think they will keep SBC for the current generation .. coz they need to redesign the break system, its not easy just to dumb SBC and switch back to conventional break

MB Fanatic

ITS BRAKE not BREAK. Come on now guys.

haha im jk.

But, I have noticed that MBUSA and DCX are referring to SBC on the E class as electrohydraulic brakes now and not SBC. Did SBC really give them a bad name or what?

w212

lol at least i have my usual excuse "me no english, me english me write like this ? no way mon"

SBC is very costly, thats what DC(aka MB) say .. honestly i believe them.

glojo

Going, going, gone. DaimlerChrysler are going back to the cheaper more conventional electrohydraulic brakes and claim that this new system that will arrive on the facelift model will be just as good as what it is replacing.

SBC will be sadly missed, it is a brilliant innotive system that will be sadly missed. The flagship SLR model will carry on using it.

John

benzmodz

Tell me what it does that will be missed ? Sensotronic brake hold ?

It hardly serves a purpose if it causes problems.

glojo

Are you the person that has had a genuine problem with SBC?

I am in the minority on this site when I attempt to defend SBC, but nip across to an English speaking European site where we have the full shebang and the only gossip\scaremongers are non SBC owners. Ring any bells??? Those folk that have it, love it and there is not one complaint.

The whole system is just more responsive, stops quicker and gives reassurance.

I am sure that when cable brakes were the norm and someone dared invent hydraulic brakes we had EXACTLY the same reaction. Ohhhh cry, cry, I no longer have direct contact with my drum brakes.... gasp horror, sue, litigate

Fly By-Wire another example.

If SBC were one quarter as bad as you critics make out, do you geniunely, honestly believe (hand on heart) that Mercedes-Benz would have used it on the SLR? I personally do not like the disc brake material they used, but no doubt at very high speeds on race circuits etc it is more stable then conventional disc's. The SBC system is a tremendous leap forward in braking technology. SBC Hold was simply a bonus. SBC Stop was in my very own personal opinion a waste of money, but others like it and I respect their point of view, but these are merely options that we have beyond the basic system.

I accept I'm in the minority,
I accept I'm wasting my breath
and I accept it is being replaced

As a person with a beautiful family that I both love and adore I am very aware of the rumours that surround this system. I look into them in great detail and would get rid of this car in a blink of an eye if I had ANY doubt, any doubt whatsoever over the safety of the braking system.

It is so easy to giggle and spread rumours, but practically impossible to defend. I am aware of one member of this forum whose car was allegedly bought back for problems related to SBC, but I also have had a vehicle bought back by Mercedes-Benz for a completely different problem. There will always be 'one offs' that we can site, but they are simply that.

If you don't like the system then Why buy it? Get rid of the car and move on.

Hopefully the electro-hydraulic system will be just as good, if not better. That is progress. If the system is purely being installed because it is as good as what it is replacing then fine. If however it is solely being installed because it is cheaper, then that is a terrible shame.

John

benzmodz

John I think you are confusing the perfection of SBC with Distronic and the AMG brakes kit. SBC was the hell which choked workshops with repeated recalls.

Whether it caused crashes or not it was a PITA for a whole number of other reasons.

Now dont get me started on the Maybach which couldnt stop and crashed in the carpark. I would easily bury you in facts - for certain I dont feel passionate enough to go another round.

It's not worth keeping. It's gone.

CE750

John, you're not alone... for me taking out SBC is more about cost cutting and less about safety for the W211.. I am sure with all of the recalls and "Bugs" out of the SBC now it's a much better system, and has potential to be even better if further engineered rather than abandoned!

I for one am SO GLAD I have a 2005 and not 2007 CDI.... not it's not only the venerable I-6 with the iron block gone, but the SBC???

Soon MB will introduce a Front Wheel drive version and introduce low cost fake wood into the E, maybe for the W212

vinceC

The SBC had issues that either could not be resolved or would consume too many resources to be resolved. The most egregious was a lack of real feel. There was a time when the feel through the brake pedal on an M-B rivaled that of a Porsche. That diminished somewhat with the W210. The SBC in the W211 (and R230 SL, etc.) made feel an electronically controlled feedback loop. Some folks didn’t mind, but there were more complaints than raves. Secondly, the benefits were theoretical and rarely achieved in the real world. In fact, the stopping distances achieved in every magazine test were 10-12 feet longer than the W210. Where SBC would have been superior is where one or more tires have different levels of traction. Thirdly, the system added significant weight for marginal gain. Fourth, the system added significant complexity for marginal gain. As M-B looked around them, manufacturers such as Porsche, BMW and Ferrari were achieving stunning results with conventional hydraulics and careful electronic intervention through advanced versions of ABS.

Flash Gordon

I totaly agree! It had more problems(recalls)than any conventioal brake system AND, to me, it does not work any better than my other car, G35X. It requires more procedure to change your pads. Where is the advantage? Why the heck do we need it!

glojo

One of my pet hate's is non E-class owners who have 'contacts' that supply 'inside information' Or non E-class owners telling me how allegedly bad the brakes are. Am I sticking my head in the sand? Possibly, but as an end user I am a great fan of this system.

They are indeed going and life moves on.

For generations Mercedes-Benz has had the reputation of building excellent, innovative motor vehicles only to have them spoilt by accountants.... What's changed?

The recalls that we have had have all been very low priority items. Counters, or checking security of wiring harnesses. The US was usually months, literally months behind when it came to recall notification! We all accept that your proud nation is not renowned for sitting back when it comes to sueing and we must surely ask WHY the US was NEVER the first to be served with the recalls??

There will be countless 'facts' and no doubt examples of crashes, but for every 'fact' or example, we can list dozens for conventional braked vehicles. If it is indeed flawed, then every system would be defective, still never let a good story get in the way of boring facts.

Heavy goods vehicles for more years than I care to remember have had problems with their brakes 'glazing' are they banned? where is all the hysteria over this known problem. Hydraulic pipes have burst, where is the hysteria over that?

He he I still get wound up far to easily.

John

Edit

Complaints from 211 owners are usually from the US who complain of lack of feel....... how conventional brakes are better etc etc Barry45 sums up the differences in culture, driving styles expectation and of course comparison far better than my good self.

My complaint is the way we tend to get through both disc's and pads, but most modern large cars seem to be suffering from this, yet the owners tend to blame the material used in the construction.

PHXATC

I hate brakes, period.

That's why I love boating...you ain't got no stinkin' brakes.

Try that in your cars, boys!

CE750

I don't know what model year, or generation of SBC you drove, but I have had two SCCA derivers drive my car and both said that the brakes feel normal, and neither of them ever thought they were electronic until I told them... this is on a March 2005 built car.. I don't know if the 2002 built cars did indeed have a feel problem, but I can tell you without a doubt, that I cannot tell the difference from my car to the Volvo we have with vacuum assisted brakes..

Furthermore, a MAJOR plus to the SBC is that during a panic stop (of which I've now had two, one at high speed, and one at low) there is NO BRAKE PEDDLE PULSING due to the activation of ABS... it has been proven thru survey after survey that the biggest drawback to ABS is the peddle pulse feedback that occurs when the ABS valves open and close to modulate the caliper... this has caused numerous people to lift their feet of the peddle thus exacerbating the situation rather than mitigating it..

I also had a guy try to merge into my lane while on the AZ51 freeway doing 85 mph and taking a shallow curve.. I had to literally slam on my brakes to keep him from taking me out, and the car decelerated like no other car I've driven and didn't lose any directional control in the process.. no pulsating, and no nose dive towards the outside of the turn... this is all due to the way SBC works during a turn... and not going to be the same with only ESP working..

I say again, taking SBC out is a COST CUTTING MEASURE that MB BADLY NEEDED.. PERIOD.

See diagram below, and read more HERE

CE750

I had enough boating in my dad's old '84 Buick LaSabre, thank you!

johna1

I really liked the SBC brakes. I only had to use them in an emergency once, and I could not believe how quickly the car stopped.

The SBC-hold feature was also really good. It will be a shame if they really are dropped in the future.

ATS

This morning I used in a panic stop, amazing and the car didn't even dip.. It was very controlled. I love the SBC system..

CE750

If we let the logic of the anti-SBC crowd rule engineering, then today's airplanes would still have hydro-mechanical brakes that take up to 33% more runway to stop and destabilize the airplane during hard braking enough to possibly cause it to veer of the runway.. thank God SBC type technology exists on todays transport category aircraft designs!

DWP

Question: If "electrohydralic" isn't just another term for "SBC", and M-B is really dropping SBC in the mid-generation '07 models - what does the "electro" in "electrohydralic" refer to? I don't know about modern non-SBC cars, but my old Datsun will stop when I step on the brake pedal even if the car's entire electrical system somehow disappeared.

CE750

Another point about "old style" brakes that many miss... they fail too!

There are numerous instances of vacuum leaks, or engines quitting and only 1 brake application allowed before the vacuum reserve is gone.. that have lead do accidents.

In SBC, so long as you have electrical power (read battery), you have brakes.

BudC

What people fail to realize is that Mercedes has had electro-hydraulic brakes since the implementation of ABS. About the only thing that's going away is the pump that provides pressure.

I guess if I was daring enough to drive a '63 Buick with Dynaflo transmission down Pike's Peak then I can be daring enough to drive an E320 with a braking system that is powered by an electric pump.

saffrontiger

JohnA,
I saw your sig. A 2004 CDI? Really? I didn't know they had them here in the USA in 2004. Perhaps you meant a 2005 CDI?

shoes

I really liked the SBC brakes on my 2003 SL500, 2004 SL55, 2004 SL500, 2005 SL600, 2003 E55, 2005 E55 wagon and 2005 E320CDI and my 2005 CLS500. Everywhere I went, people could enjoy the sounds of my brake noises. My favorite was the little "squoink" noise it made as you begin to apply pressure to the brake pedal. Also, my passengers always enjoyed bobbing their heads in response to my inability to brake any of these cars smoothly.

I don't own an SL, E or CLS Mercedes because of these brakes. Instead I have to drive ugly BMW's that stop, steer and handle like well engineered cars should.

konigstiger

Damn! They told me I was getting a 2006 CLS500, *******s!

glojo

You might not have any taste in vehicles or know how to drive, but I like your sense of humour. Well said Oh and you got half your description right about BMW's... They are so ugly


Regards,
John