This isn't good
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Mercedes C400, BMW X3
This isn't good
"As part of his plan to increase efficiency and productivity in Mercedes-Benz, new CEO Dieter Zetsche plans to cull vehicle options, like those offered by the automaker and its in-house tuning specialist AMG, while most likely including many as standard options. This is the current policy of Lexus, Toyota Motors Co. luxury brand and many Asian and even domestic automakers.
However, there are no current plans to reduce the number of vehicles. “We will surely continue to offer greater variety than a brand such as Hyundai,” said Zetsche. "
Since when does Mercedes want to be mentioned in the same breath as Hyundai?
However, there are no current plans to reduce the number of vehicles. “We will surely continue to offer greater variety than a brand such as Hyundai,” said Zetsche. "
Since when does Mercedes want to be mentioned in the same breath as Hyundai?
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
I applaud the move. IMO M-B should have more features as standard equipment. Personally I think that a 50K + car should have HIDs and leather interior as standard equipment.
Perhaps a "delete" option for those that don't want them - but I would imagine that very few would go that route.
Perhaps a "delete" option for those that don't want them - but I would imagine that very few would go that route.
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From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Here’s the full story based on one direct quote from Dieter:
Automotive News / March 6, 2006 - 6:00 am
GENEVA – Mercedes-Benz will offer fewer customer options in its cars.
“We will surely continue to offer greater variety than a brand such as Hyundai,” Mercedes Car Group CEO Dieter Zetsche said.
But he also said that he plans to reduce overlapping offers, such as two sports packages on the same model.
Some Mercedes models are offered with a sports package that includes a stiffer suspension, bigger wheels and different trim. But they also are available with a package from in-house tuning specialist AMG, which includes similar treatment but different alloy wheels and additional spoilers and cladding.
Carmakers such as Mercedes and BMW boost revenue by offering customer-specified options, but doing so increases the cost and complexity of their production process.
The move is part of Zetsche’s plan to boost productivity at Mercedes.
He wants to:
* Get engineers to consider production processes early in a model’s development
* Reduce manufacturing complexity.
Zetsche said Mercedes’ benchmark for productivity and quality is Lexus, the luxury division of Japanese auto-maker Toyota.
Lexus cars come with more standard equipment than their Mercedes counterparts, but typically offer only a few options.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../60303104/1078
Automotive News / March 6, 2006 - 6:00 am
GENEVA – Mercedes-Benz will offer fewer customer options in its cars.
“We will surely continue to offer greater variety than a brand such as Hyundai,” Mercedes Car Group CEO Dieter Zetsche said.
But he also said that he plans to reduce overlapping offers, such as two sports packages on the same model.
Some Mercedes models are offered with a sports package that includes a stiffer suspension, bigger wheels and different trim. But they also are available with a package from in-house tuning specialist AMG, which includes similar treatment but different alloy wheels and additional spoilers and cladding.
Carmakers such as Mercedes and BMW boost revenue by offering customer-specified options, but doing so increases the cost and complexity of their production process.
The move is part of Zetsche’s plan to boost productivity at Mercedes.
He wants to:
* Get engineers to consider production processes early in a model’s development
* Reduce manufacturing complexity.
Zetsche said Mercedes’ benchmark for productivity and quality is Lexus, the luxury division of Japanese auto-maker Toyota.
Lexus cars come with more standard equipment than their Mercedes counterparts, but typically offer only a few options.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../60303104/1078
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'08 AM Vantage V8 - '03 E500
Now that Hyundai is making XM satellite radio standard equipment on all its models, starting with MY '07, people might well wonder why satellite radio is standard equipment on a $13,000 Hyundai Accent, but a $500 option on a $60,000 Benz. Emphasizing the prestige of the Mercedes marque will get DCX only so far; at some point even Benz buyers will rightly sense that they are being taken advantage of.
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Props to Herr Dieter!
Just like Lexus set MB and BMW as benchmarks to beat in the luxury category over 20 yrs ago, MB and BMW need to benchmark Lexus (Toyota) for production quality and reliability!
As for the options/standard equip, Lexus again sets the benchmark.
Things such as HID, Sunroof/moonroof, leather, power seats, 6spd Auto trans, have been established as "standard" equip by the Japanese lux auto makers.
This leaves, Nav, DVD entertainment, parking dist control, rear view camera, HUD, etc as options.
MB products would be much more competitive if they also followed this route.
Heck for a $50K+ E-class, leather seas isn't even standard? What gives?
Just like Lexus set MB and BMW as benchmarks to beat in the luxury category over 20 yrs ago, MB and BMW need to benchmark Lexus (Toyota) for production quality and reliability!
As for the options/standard equip, Lexus again sets the benchmark.
Things such as HID, Sunroof/moonroof, leather, power seats, 6spd Auto trans, have been established as "standard" equip by the Japanese lux auto makers.
This leaves, Nav, DVD entertainment, parking dist control, rear view camera, HUD, etc as options.
MB products would be much more competitive if they also followed this route.
Heck for a $50K+ E-class, leather seas isn't even standard? What gives?
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From: Staples Center
w211 & w124
Expect your $50K E Class sans HID's, NAV or premium Leather to become a $62K with all of the above as standard equipment. I wonder how many of us would buy our cars all over again if the standard E Class started in the low $60's instead of the $50's even with all the extras.
Judging by how many E Class drivers buy the base model with no options, I'd say not too many.
Judging by how many E Class drivers buy the base model with no options, I'd say not too many.
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
I personally feel that a 50 thousand dollar Luxury car with acres of black buttons with now writing on them screams "You're missing Heated Seats, You Don't have cooled seats, you don't have this , you don't have that...
A luxury car is supposed to come with bells & whistles. Otherwise its just an expensive well made car. The term "Luxury" describes conveniences that "do" things FOR you, so you don't have to do them yourself.
I mean, really, the car doesn't have to come with power windows, but it is a luxury feature added to an already well made expensive car.
If they have to charge more for them because it cost more to make the car in that country, well, so be it, but the age of a well made, stripped, luxury car are OVER. There is too much competition now for the Luxury car dollar.
He is doing the right thing. Those who can no longer afford the E class equipped as it should be will move down to a C Class which will now also include everything it should. Conmsumers drive the market, not manufacturers... and MB has finally heard the marketplace LOUD & CLEAR.
The arrogance of "Vee made zis car as it should be. You vill use it like ziss and not talk back!" is over. Dead.
A luxury car is supposed to come with bells & whistles. Otherwise its just an expensive well made car. The term "Luxury" describes conveniences that "do" things FOR you, so you don't have to do them yourself.
I mean, really, the car doesn't have to come with power windows, but it is a luxury feature added to an already well made expensive car.
If they have to charge more for them because it cost more to make the car in that country, well, so be it, but the age of a well made, stripped, luxury car are OVER. There is too much competition now for the Luxury car dollar.
He is doing the right thing. Those who can no longer afford the E class equipped as it should be will move down to a C Class which will now also include everything it should. Conmsumers drive the market, not manufacturers... and MB has finally heard the marketplace LOUD & CLEAR.
The arrogance of "Vee made zis car as it should be. You vill use it like ziss and not talk back!" is over. Dead.
Last edited by Barry45RPM; Mar 8, 2006 at 03:44 PM.
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From: Obama Land
K Car
Originally Posted by DWP
Now that Hyundai is making XM satellite radio standard equipment on all its models, starting with MY '07, people might well wonder why satellite radio is standard equipment on a $13,000 Hyundai Accent, but a $500 option on a $60,000 Benz. Emphasizing the prestige of the Mercedes marque will get DCX only so far; at some point even Benz buyers will rightly sense that they are being taken advantage of.
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From: Charlotte, NC
'16 528i MSport
I don't get it on the scale that MB should've seen this a while ago. They haven't realized that they are sticking with the same standard equipment from 1999-2000 while others were beginning to offer so much more for so little price tag.
But of course, 50K-60K price tag means you're paying 35K for the tristar emblem itself....
But of course, 50K-60K price tag means you're paying 35K for the tristar emblem itself....
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From: Virginia
2005 Carlsson CD32 E320 CDI Inline-6
Now if he could just make a Mercedes as reliable as a Hyundai...
...that would be progress.
I don't like to admit this in public, but my other car is a Kia Sportage. Bought it used for $1000. That's correct, $1000, as in 1/55th or 1.8% of what I paid for my new CDI. AND I throw countless, abusive, in-town, bad weather, bad road, pot-hole hitting, firewood hauling, grocery-getting miles on the Kia. And it just soldiers on. No stories, I mean 0 problems in thousands of miles. It has $50 tires, $2.99 oil filters, and uses whatever motor oil is on sale.
I don't like to admit this in public, but my other car is a Kia Sportage. Bought it used for $1000. That's correct, $1000, as in 1/55th or 1.8% of what I paid for my new CDI. AND I throw countless, abusive, in-town, bad weather, bad road, pot-hole hitting, firewood hauling, grocery-getting miles on the Kia. And it just soldiers on. No stories, I mean 0 problems in thousands of miles. It has $50 tires, $2.99 oil filters, and uses whatever motor oil is on sale.
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Originally Posted by cdiken
...that would be progress.
I don't like to admit this in public, but my other car is a Kia Sportage.
I don't like to admit this in public, but my other car is a Kia Sportage.
Last edited by HELL ONA HARLEY; Mar 8, 2006 at 10:41 PM.
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Don't laugh... one of my other cars is an '05 Suzuki Forenza! Same story... Fully equipped, (sun roof, Fog Lights Mats, bangin' stereo w/tape & CD, power windows w express down, automatic smooth shifting tranny & more...) Zero problems, decent looking, verrrry long warranty in Years AND Miles, runs on BJs Wholesale Club Regular Gas. The kids fight over which one gets to use it for the night. $12,000
No resale value yet, like Kia....but give them a few years under their belt.
No resale value yet, like Kia....but give them a few years under their belt.
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From: Staples Center
w211 & w124
We can all ***** and moan about how under-equipped our cars are and how they don't give us this or they didn't give us that but if you're posting here you most likely own one of these cars and are therefore a hypocrite.
If I wanted luxury in a well equipped car at a reasonable price I would have gotten an Acura RL. The difference is that I didn't want a just another asian import that doesn't turn a single head. When my car has just had a fresh wash and it pulls out of the driveway people will look and think to themselves "now that's a nice ride". There's just something in a Benz that gives me this warm and fuzzy feeling inside that I just don't get from Lexus, Infiniti or Acura. And for me, that's why I was willing to pay more for less...
If I wanted luxury in a well equipped car at a reasonable price I would have gotten an Acura RL. The difference is that I didn't want a just another asian import that doesn't turn a single head. When my car has just had a fresh wash and it pulls out of the driveway people will look and think to themselves "now that's a nice ride". There's just something in a Benz that gives me this warm and fuzzy feeling inside that I just don't get from Lexus, Infiniti or Acura. And for me, that's why I was willing to pay more for less...
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From: Obama Land
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Originally Posted by Samoan_Ridah
We can all ***** and moan about how under-equipped our cars are and how they don't give us this or they didn't give us that but if you're posting here you most likely own one of these cars and are therefore a hypocrite.
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Wow, well said! The Korean autos have come a long way since the original Hyunday Accent. They're far beyond the Detroit quality and creeping up to the Japanese qual/reliability!
You did not elaborate on your experience w/ your CDI. I'll take a wild guess at it...
you "baby" this vehicle, wash, wax, regular oil changes @ dealer (not $20 Lube Express jobs), regular MB service intervals, avoid potholes like they,re landmines, and spend $100's or even $1,000's a year to maintain all that, right? But, it's all worth it!!!!
You did not elaborate on your experience w/ your CDI. I'll take a wild guess at it...
you "baby" this vehicle, wash, wax, regular oil changes @ dealer (not $20 Lube Express jobs), regular MB service intervals, avoid potholes like they,re landmines, and spend $100's or even $1,000's a year to maintain all that, right? But, it's all worth it!!!!
Originally Posted by cdiken
...that would be progress.
I don't like to admit this in public, but my other car is a Kia Sportage. Bought it used for $1000. That's correct, $1000, as in 1/55th or 1.8% of what I paid for my new CDI. AND I throw countless, abusive, in-town, bad weather, bad road, pot-hole hitting, firewood hauling, grocery-getting miles on the Kia. And it just soldiers on. No stories, I mean 0 problems in thousands of miles. It has $50 tires, $2.99 oil filters, and uses whatever motor oil is on sale.
I don't like to admit this in public, but my other car is a Kia Sportage. Bought it used for $1000. That's correct, $1000, as in 1/55th or 1.8% of what I paid for my new CDI. AND I throw countless, abusive, in-town, bad weather, bad road, pot-hole hitting, firewood hauling, grocery-getting miles on the Kia. And it just soldiers on. No stories, I mean 0 problems in thousands of miles. It has $50 tires, $2.99 oil filters, and uses whatever motor oil is on sale.
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
If you like paying more, don't worry. You will, but the cars will have what they should have... and where in the world did u get the Idea that an Acura is a Luxury car?
Its Honda's Luxury Line, and even they describe it as "near Luxury" or "entry Luxury" in stature.
Its Honda's Luxury Line, and even they describe it as "near Luxury" or "entry Luxury" in stature.
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Its really not quite the "solid block of steel" that a Benz is... The MB philosophy is to over-build the best car they can, and then price it including a predetermined profit margin. The Lexus (and everybody else's) philosophy is to decide what price point you want the car to sell at, and then build the best car you can to come in at that price, including your predetermined profit margin. Its a different building philosophy, and one car will way outlast the other.
Did you ever notice that on every other car you've owned, that after 2 years they don't "feel" the same? They're a little "sloppier", looser, etc. The Benz still feels like the day I drove it home, over 2 years ago... Like a "Solid block of steel", tight. That comes from initial design standards to be "beefier than necessary", not just "as tough as it needs to be".
Did you ever notice that on every other car you've owned, that after 2 years they don't "feel" the same? They're a little "sloppier", looser, etc. The Benz still feels like the day I drove it home, over 2 years ago... Like a "Solid block of steel", tight. That comes from initial design standards to be "beefier than necessary", not just "as tough as it needs to be".
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From: Virginia
2005 Carlsson CD32 E320 CDI Inline-6
Benz definitely has solid hardware....
Its mostly been software problems on mine. Fortunately under warranty, so far. Latest was inop tilt steering. $1200 to fix if not under warranty. Others have been SRS malf (twice), ABS, BAS, ESP malfuntions.
Usually I go about 2500 miles between dealer visits. Terrible.
Usually I go about 2500 miles between dealer visits. Terrible.
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From: oregon
2011 C300
Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
Its really not quite the "solid block of steel" that a Benz is... The MB philosophy is to over-build the best car they can, and then price it including a predetermined profit margin. The Lexus (and everybody else's) philosophy is to decide what price point you want the car to sell at, and then build the best car you can to come in at that price, including your predetermined profit margin. Its a different building philosophy, and one car will way outlast the other.
Did you ever notice that on every other car you've owned, that after 2 years they don't "feel" the same? They're a little "sloppier", looser, etc. The Benz still feels like the day I drove it home, over 2 years ago... Like a "Solid block of steel", tight. That comes from initial design standards to be "beefier than necessary", not just "as tough as it needs to be".
Did you ever notice that on every other car you've owned, that after 2 years they don't "feel" the same? They're a little "sloppier", looser, etc. The Benz still feels like the day I drove it home, over 2 years ago... Like a "Solid block of steel", tight. That comes from initial design standards to be "beefier than necessary", not just "as tough as it needs to be".
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From: Sacramento
'08 AM Vantage V8 - '03 E500
The Acura RL (sold as the Honda Legend in Japan) lists for $750 less than an E350 and is 4" longer and 300 pounds heavier. Pretty comparable, at least to that extent. The prices aren't really all that comparable, though. The RL is stuffed to the gills with standard equipment that costs thousands extra on the E350 - navigation, satellite radio, all-wheel drive, on and on.
Have to agree with Barry, though, that the E is one remarkably tight car. After 2 1/2 years ours still doesn't have a single squeak or rattle. I can't feel any body flex or shake at all over rough surfaces - "single ingot", indeed.
Have to agree with Barry, though, that the E is one remarkably tight car. After 2 1/2 years ours still doesn't have a single squeak or rattle. I can't feel any body flex or shake at all over rough surfaces - "single ingot", indeed.
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Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
Did you ever notice that on every other car you've owned, that after 2 years they don't "feel" the same? They're a little "sloppier", looser, etc. The Benz still feels like the day I drove it home, over 2 years ago... Like a "Solid block of steel", tight. That comes from initial design standards to be "beefier than necessary", not just "as tough as it needs to be".
Wait...you forgot to mention...
the same "thump/clunk" downshift from 2nd to 1st on the 7sp transmission still occurs even after 2 years and countless trips to the dealerships service bay
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
Did you ever notice that on every other car you've owned, that after 2 years they don't "feel" the same? They're a little "sloppier", looser, etc.
My Audi is two years old and has 24K on the clock and is still rock solid. My W211 had a really annoying squeak coming from the drivers side a pillar trim @ 15,000 miles that never went away and totally irritated me up until I turned the car in @ ~30K and 2 1/2 years.
The W211 doors / trunk / hood all closed with authority and I loved that but my other cars have been even better in relation to squeaks and rattles.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
My ONE complaint about MB ever since I have been on this board is their 5 mile long options list, which should have included some stuff as standard...
i.e. Satelite radio (a $50 piece of electronics)
leather seat surfaces everywhere... probably another $200 at their cost
sunroof - come on now.. an option on an MB??
split folding rear seats..
but another plus that I have said would come of this would be the simplification of their production since they won't need two sets of parts for everything, and their workers will need less training and experience to do the job right the first time.
This is I'm sure how Lexus and Acura keep quality up... they don't too many options on their cars, and too many electronics interfaces to sort out... everything is engineered from the get go to work together, because it will have to on every car! In the end, the result is a better equipped car as "standard" and a more reliable car!
i.e. Satelite radio (a $50 piece of electronics)
leather seat surfaces everywhere... probably another $200 at their cost
sunroof - come on now.. an option on an MB??
split folding rear seats..
but another plus that I have said would come of this would be the simplification of their production since they won't need two sets of parts for everything, and their workers will need less training and experience to do the job right the first time.
This is I'm sure how Lexus and Acura keep quality up... they don't too many options on their cars, and too many electronics interfaces to sort out... everything is engineered from the get go to work together, because it will have to on every car! In the end, the result is a better equipped car as "standard" and a more reliable car!
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Originally Posted by mb808
Wait...you forgot to mention...
the same "thump/clunk" downshift from 2nd to 1st on the 7sp transmission still occurs even after 2 years and countless trips to the dealerships service bay
the same "thump/clunk" downshift from 2nd to 1st on the 7sp transmission still occurs even after 2 years and countless trips to the dealerships service bay
No excuse for MB to have a transmission like that. NONE, but nothing else out there says what a Mercedes does. (Yet.) ..& I'll bet that the 7 speed is the best built crappy shifting transmission out there too!
