i have owned the following MB Cars:
95 C280
95 C220
97 C230
98 C230 komp
94 E 320 wagon
95 e320 sedan
96-98 E320 sedan
04 C240

Now i have a 2004 e320. For those of you who have previously owned MB cars are you scratching your heads as well here? my e320 trunk lid feels like a F&*%ing nissan maxima. Its light. So does the doors. and the front quarter panels are weak. if you lean on them you can feel them gently recess.
This is a far cry from the Mercedes cars that I owned in the past. This care is NOT a tank anymore. What is with the window switches on this thing? What happened to all the insulation in the car?? why does the interior look like a buffet of lighting colors instead of all amber. White on instruments, blue on some switches etc. Where is the weight and sturdy feel in the steering??
Am i dreaming here???
I can't belive it. This is the first time i have owned a benz where i felt the cost was unjustified.

 

If you don't like it, why did you buy it?

 

well that is an interesting question.
When i first drove the car i was impressed. It took some time of getting to know the car so that i could compare it to the one's i have had in the past. I did realize it was different on the test ride though. But often different means better.
Let me settle your worries: I love the car. BUT i hate it when compared to my MB cars of the past. I would rather have this car than any other car on the market in the same price range. You know the saying a bad day fishing beats a great day at work? That is what i mean: The modern benz is still better than anything out there competing with it imho.
I can't however get over the fact that it feels like poop compared to the ones of the past.

 

oh,
one more reason i bought is that MB has treated me like a king over the years. I am brand loyal. my family is swiss german we have only owned mb or bmw and i favour the mb line of cars.

my transmission also sucks big time

 

Car makers, including DCX, are constantly searching for ways to reduce the weight of their cars. The need to install crush-zone body structures, other safety equipment and of course the various electronic and mechanical systems that make the safety systems work and keep the customers happy. Individually, all the new pieces (from additional air bags to more speakers) may not weigh much, but together they add up to a lot of weight. The makers have to compensate with weight-saving measures in order to keep total weight (and fuel mileage) within reason.

I don't think of the doors or trunk lid of my car as "light", but it wouldn't bother me if I did. I didn't buy the car by the pound. I don't care if body parts are light so long as they are strong, and I think they are. The "carved from a single steel ingot" Benzes of yore are gone and aren't coming back, but that doesn't make the current Benzes flimsy. After three years, my '03 has no body flex, squeaks or rattles at all. None. Oh, and if the front fenders "gently recess", it may be because they are aluminum. That makes them light, but it doesn't necessarily make them "weak."

 

oh. that was very informative. I guess i never considered that. Its like the titanium analogy: lighter and stronger than steel but not inferior. However, you must admit the hybridization with chrystler is smaking about in the car? Surely we can't ignore that one? The MB line is no longer as "exclusive" and i mean technologically/design wise. Back in the day a benz was a benz and no other company shared parts or design.
Also, whats up with the windsheild wipers? Why back to dual instead of one?
i liked the old ones?
i dont want to sound like i am living in the past here but the gist is that my car doesnt seem so unique any longer.

 

One word: Competition

I grew up around 1970s and 1980s MBs, and have had a couple W202s of my own. About to pick up a new W211, and I agree that it's a shame they don't feel as solid as the MBs of the past. But in addition to weight savings mentioned previously, costs have had to be cut to stay competitive with Lexus...which is why there is no longer a complicated but elegant single articulating wiper and instead the traditional two, among many other things. For instance I was very surprised to learn that the only leather in my 2006 are the few square inches on the front seating areas...the backs seats are entirely vinyl on a $58k car.

But don't let the Chrysler marketing fool you...there are very few parts MB shares with Chrysler, and the parts are making better Chrysler products, not inferior MBs. The rear suspension in the current Chrysler sedans is based on the W124 E-class, not the W211.

 

yes but the essence of an MB is what made it an MB. I have had a lexus es 300 and ls 430 company cars in the past. I despised them and the "light" feel to the car and steering. Especailly the feel of the acceleration. The wood interior was chincy and switches etc all felt very cheap. My MB cars switches etc felt very dense and well made. For example, my 97 C230 window switches were rock solid. The 04 C240 felt like a lexus. As you depressed the switch the entire cluster would move. The plastic was wimpy and the wood: resembled the trim of my company ES 300.
as for the vinyl I think that happens to be a plus, only because leather wears and if you own the car a long time the vinyl holds up much better than leather. BUT, i hear many people say that so you are not alone.
FInally what about the command buttons? Why is the volume control wheel so flimsy? It should have reistance and be coated in rubberized material like the ones of the past. Instead I have some plastic wheel that turns if you practically blow on the thing

 

right: so what i mean is that i prefered an mb to a lexus because they were very distinct machines. Now i can not say the same. I guess all along is that I meant my E320 feels like an LS 430. and the trunk thing was because there is no quality feel when opening the doors or trunk. Just like a lexus. There was a time with MB when you "poped the trunk" the lid simply burped open becuse the deck lid was on hydraulic posts. Now it just flys open because its so light.

Door Handles: why are they so far off the line of the car? My C240 was dented because of the door handles. Somone rubbed one of them and subsequently due to the shape the minor pressure caused a bow in the entire door.

 

Yes, the hood and trunk lid are aluminum and are quite light compared to older cars. There are also a number of aluminum suspension parts. All to help keep the weight down and get better gas mileage.

 

Had a '65 Delta 88 that was a tank and my buddy had an MB diesel that was killer but I certainly wouldn't trade my '04 E class for either one of them.

That said, my 380 is so much more vintage MB mindset than the other two, it's not funny but times change and so do priorities. These auto manufactures deal in such a complex market, I'm amazed they get it right as often as they do.

I enjoy all my Benzes for what they are, nothing more, nothing less and I wouldn't trade any of them at the moment. Enjoy your purchase or trade for something that makes you smile.

Life's to short to drive an ordinary car...

 

Aluminum is much better on the fenders, trunk and hood then steel. It will outlast any piece of steel from any of those cars you mentioned.

 

I have a '91 300E and the MSRP on it was $48,800. That's about what I paid for my 2004 E320. Mercedes, like all manufacturers had to find ways to reduce the cost of the car. Everything on the E320 has been cost reduced and it's obvious when parked next to the 300E. The E320 isn't nearly as well made as the 300E but it's a much better car overall.

As for the aluminum, we were staying at East Glacier, Montana on the 3rd of July and got caught in a tremendous hail storm. The damage to the steel roof can be popped out but the aluminum hood and trunk lid have to be replaced. I appreciate the weight savings of using aluminum body parts but when I slam the trunk lid on the 300E it makes the E320 seem cheap.

Time marches on.

 

BUdC
I am terrible at making a point. Let me elbaorate on why i started the post. As i read the forum carefully one theme i see here. FORGET LONG TERM OWNERSHIP. And that is my main gripe. I would buy a benz and smugly think: I will own this thing for 500k easily. YOu proved my point succinctly. 91 300E. 14 years!!! of ownership. Not because you are some kind of pack rat or hippie. BUT i am certain the car is still beautiful mechanically sound and solid after all those years. I dont see that with the new ones. Ever seen a 14 year old lexus. they are dogged out completely.
OK so in 91 you pad nearly 50k for a car. and your freinds and family were impressed because its a bunch of money but those in the "know" especially your MB sales rep realized that if you so desired, you just paid for 14 years of ownership. That in 14 years down the road the interior would be in-tact looking handsome and not faded. The styling was timeless and it would overall last you for as long as you wanted. part of the draw of MB customers was not about "gizmos" and :"whistles" but about making a sensible decision. After all that is one of the reasons MB cars save the newer models seem to look so damn good after 14 years. The styling of a 95 C Class seems to just "work" or an 80's S-Class does not look like a sore thumb on the road like an old Infiniti or Lexus or Toyota for that matter.
BUt now. Now we are not buying long term ownership for 60k. We are just buying a "rich man's Rep" if feels. Or in the very least we are buying a competing product to the asian luxury market. Back in the "day" Lexus wouldnt dare compare their cars to ours. Like Mac and PC used to be.
Now because MB has changed so much they have opened the door for comparisons and much worse quality has slipped quietly into the urinal.

 

brett, Mercedes competes with no one... there is FAR too aggressive of a research and developement group to say they are trying to compete with anyone... Its all about marketing... To me it sounds like you are no longer on the mercedes bandwagon... While most of these vehicles arent that reliable... there is more technology in a current day mercedes then there was in the first space rockets going in to space... Mercedes of yesteryear were advanced for there time, but in NO WAY as complex as they are now... think about this, there is one system in my E500W that controls my suspension, my radio, my CD changer, my engine fuel map, my windows, etc etc... Star diagnostic is FAR more advanced then anything any manufacturer has going now, with the acception of maybe BMWs vehicle program. There are no manufacturers that make vehicles as complex as a benz...

If you want a good read check out this thread over on E46fanatics that I had with a BMW owner...
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=375567&page=2

Ive done a lot of research and even though tests dont show it... know that mercedes is still by far the best car out there.

 

55,
I know it seems like i am "bashing" MB. But just to clarify as i did at the top of the thread: I love my MB's all of the past and even my 04 C240 and o4 E320. I love them. I love to drive them and would buy another car if i was truly dissatisfied. My comparision is inter-brand and not really based on any competing product. Having said that, the MB technology is good and bad. They need to find a balance between advanced and practical. A very good analogy would be the Soviet Built MIG 29 Fulcrum and the US FA-18 Fighter Jets. The US built jets were and are incredible machines capable of the unimagineable. However they are rife with failures and bizzare complications that keep them in the shop often and are "high maintencance" The Soviet Mig 29 had many if not all of the same capabilities but because of their design simplicity were simple to maintain and just as effective. Hopefully its a good analogy.
The issues the MB has is brining these incredible tech advances to the market and blancing with user friendly or reliability issues. The electrical systems on our cars is totally unacceptable--yet other car companies can seem to get it right.
Do you remember the ML series cars when first introduced? Correct me if i am wrong but i thing MB issued a formal apology to shareholders for the lack of quality in their product. To see a product that was outmatched in quality simply slip off the scales over a decade is hard for me. I love MB cars and their vision as well as their entire etho.
The problem is now instead of having my 04 e320 for 14 years i have to buy another car in maybe 5 when they can get these issues worked out.
In no means would i ever suppose to go with any other car though. Its like having a family argument? You know what i mean?

 

Mercedes have made some mistakes and lost track of what they are. Now that Dr. Z is in charge, I expect Mercedes to get back to the basics.

I regret the cost cutting that Mercedes have done but I also understand it was necessary. If my E320 was built at the cost of building my 300E (in today's dollars), I could not afford to buy it.

The E320 is the best long distance road car I've ever owned. After two very long driving vacations (10K total miles), the car has performed flawlessly. The only thing that's gone wrong is that the cover for the SOS switch won't stay closed. I can live with that.

There is one positive thing about all this. In the past I could never justify replacing a Mercedes that never wore out. Now maybe the E320 will force my wife to let me buy another one w/o waiting 15 years

 

I have a 90 300E with 150K its going to die soon...
when its good, I don't think there is any modern car I would rather be driving instead of it. I have tried accord, w203, acuras , w220 etc

w211 is probably not build on the standards of w124, but its the best build car mercedes has for them now.
one thing I have noticed, the latest redesigned models like s-class seem to have good build quality, so
I think when the w212 comes out, they will have the perfect e-class ever. aggressive styling and EVEN more improved steering.

 

uhhh... if you say so.

 

my comment there came on technological advances and safety systems that mercedes has introduced and released and that MOST manufacturers use some variation... 1980 Mercedes was the first manufacturer to include Airbags in a vehicle...

There is no manufacturer out there that has the same history of safety and technological advances in manufacturing... That is what I used to base my opinion...

 

Hmm, a quick search tells a different story; http://inventors.about.com/od/astart...a/air_bags.htm. It seems like Ford was the first company in '71 to make one as a development project and GM was the first to offer it as standard on the '73 Oldsmobile Toronado.

Even more info here: http://www.motorvista.com/airhist.htm.

While I love my car and think it is a great ride I beleive that the general notion is that Volvo has the best safety record. If that is still the case I am not sure of.

-S

 

Actually i thought that was one of life's ironies. That volvo was not nearly as safe as they claimed they were. I am pretty sure that the ford taurus was safer than the volvo in every catagory for many years of testing.

volvo just looks safe!

 

I picked up my information from MBUSAs history site... Ill look for the info, it was certainly a first for Airbags in the USA... I could of mis-interpreted it as it being the first imported vehicle with airbags or something... Also reading that motorvista site, those airbags that were released all seemed to be experimental... for real life testing...

IIRC, mercedes made them standard, and not an option like the american companies... so what I say may still be true, where one offered it as an option but the other standardized it

 

Not true! There are only two companies that actually send teams of investigators out to crashes involving their products - Mercedes and Volvo.

Volvo invented one of the most important safety features of all time, the three point seat belt.

As for testing, the US Federal Government has insisted for years on stupid frontal tests while the Europeans have done real world testing and knew that frontal offset tests were the most important. The Insurance Institute finally saw the light and they now do frontal offset testing as well.

As far as Ford goes, they have had a terrible reputation for safety dating all the way back to the Pinto. All Ford does is satisfy the government's Mickey Mouse safety standards. Standards that let Ford recommend under inflating tires on the Explorer so it wouldn't roll over and that resulted in blowouts.

Standards that has let Ford build the Crown Victoria, Mercury Marquis and Lincoln Town Car for years with doors that jam in a crash and a gas tank that ruptures.

Go here http://www.whnet.com/4x4/crashes.html and page down to see what Ford's F150 did despite having a government 5 start rating.

 

I think volvo is working on a 4 point factory seat belt now too? I think it was volvo... maybe another manufacturer from that area