Barry45RPM

Yeah. OK.

Flash Gordon

The main issue of reliability among Toyota, Honda, Nissan and MB is a culture difference between Japan manufacturers and Germans', I think, based on my own experience. The Japanese take quality issues much more seriously than the Germans. When something goes wrong, the Japanses will go through hell to find out what caused it to go wrong, and rectify it quickly. Where as the Germans will try to solve the problem, but do not rectify the issues quick enough.
Another good example is the German cameras. Leica, Rollei, and Zeiss were the premier cameras in the world at one time. Where are they now? If MB does not change its culture like Nissan did after Renault took a controlling interest, MB just may take the Zeiss path to the cemetary. Don't laugh, you think Zeiss, Rollei, Leica ever thought they would become almost extinct during their glorious days! You think GM, Ford, Chrysler would ever predict their current demise. You think Motorola, Magnovox, Sylvania, RCA ever thought they would not sell anymore TVs during their glorious days!

I have never bought a Lexus, but my next one will be Lexus.

jimm

Regarding comparing reliability and competitive cars ..
I note that Lexus 460 and 460L owners are going crazy
trying the get the wind noise stopped.

They tried putting the heavier windows from the L into
the SWB but, no change. (Why would there be when the
L is having the same noise, too?)

They also tried a couple of outside things like drilling
holes in mirrors, etc. No improvement.

One guy reported a long trip where he said the constant
noise about blew his head up!

Wind noise is a BAD nuisance .. especially in a luxury
car where you expect super quiet. All companies have
problems, don’t they?

jimm

==========

On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps

Barry45RPM

[QUOTE=jimm;2237106]Wind noise is a BAD nuisance .. especially in a luxury
car where you expect super quiet. All companies have
problems, don’t they?

jimm
You bet! But Lexus will work day & night until they isolate it & eliminate it. They won't ignore it, or pee on the forest fire like MB did with the 03+ E.

Frugal1

People think I'm nuts . . . and I'm definitely alone when I slam my one and only Toyota experience . . . . but that 2005 Sienna I bought was a massive piece of expensive garbage. They LIE about the fuel economy something fierce . . . I got only 1.5 mpg over the 2002 Suburban I traded for that heap. The sliding doors had to be kept full of messy grease or else it sounded like an old wooden ship creaking from the wake. The CD player somehow filled the cd's with dust every two days but worst of all, the AC was only capable of lowering the temperature inside the cabin by 10 degrees (and that coming from the cool garage and after 20 minutes at highway speed). The rear AC vents simply blasted whatever cooling they were capable of right on your face so you "thought" you were cool but a thermometer in the car proved otherwise. The gearing/hp/torque was so bad if it even looked like a hill it had to downshift TWO gears . . . . what crap. There was more but I'm dredging up bad memories so I have to stop now!!

All of that and I lost both lemon law cases. I had a theory that their AWD system was the AC and fuel economy culprit because the exposed metal hardware on the floor was almost too hot to touch . . . but they ignored my theory and sent me packing.

The Lexus LS460 sure looks nice but I'm still very bitter over they way they treated me and it's going to take a long time to forgive them.



One other comment . . . one person above implied that BMW's are LESS reliable than Mercedes? Does anyone else agree with that??? I know this is an MB forum but try to be objective!! I'm close to finally making a decision between the E class, the 530i and the A6 and had BMW solidly on top in the columns for resale and reliability.

jimm

[QUOTE=Barry45RPM;2237336]I totally agree with that Barry. I came within an “inch” of buying a
Lexus 460. Partly because of their reliability history and a BIG part
due to their outstanding electronics! MODERN electronics! Especially
the latest Nav! (Great electronics seem to be of more importance to
me than most others here.)

I pointed out the wind noise because it’s about the only problem I’ve
heard about. And, I agree that Toyota will jump on it and get it fixed!

jimm

==========

On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps

DerekACS

Over the past 20+ years, both my wife and I have owned a good number of MBs and BMWs. Both brands have had their share of problems at different times. Electronic sensors probably remain the most significant bugbear of both brands or any German brand. No question that MB went through a very rough patch during the late 90s (especially C Class) and with the early W211 range. But it seems that the vast majority of members of this forum who own W211s ( especially 2006 and 2007) are extremely satisfied with their MBs.

I currently drive a BMW 335i coupe which I will soon be trading for a Bluetec E320. This may seem like a strange changeover, but for reasons of practicality (my wife has a SLK and we need one sedan in the family), I am giving up one fabulous engine for another amazing powerplant, the Bluetec V6 turbo diesel ! I am also convinced that the build quality of the E Class is superior to any 5 series.

Perhaps you are already aware that the 530i is being replaced by the 535i. The twin turbo motor is a wonderful engine that loves to gobble gas ( how about 14mpg for city driving !!).

In any case, I would not asume that the 5 series has better resale than the current E Class. If you look at the present sales trends in North America and Europe, you would find that 5 Series sales are tanking (down by 20% in the US), while E Class sales are growing rapidly ( up by 20% in the US and by 75% in Canada for 2007 year to date !!). These sales trends will impact resale in a big way.

The biggest negative for the E60 5 Series remains the controversial styling. So many members of this forum and BMW forums continue to mention the styling issue. It's a serious handicap and for many, its a deal breaker.

Underwhelmed

I've driven hondas (always reliable), nissan, mazda, mitsubishi, chevy, rambler, lexus, BMWs, and now mercedes.

On the whole they've been reliable.

Only 2 cars have tried to kill me: Lexus rx300 and BMW 330CI.

The lexus caught on fire at 40k miles on the interstate while my wife was driving it. Burned to the ground. Fire dept said it was electrical in origin. Lexus said it was due to poor oil change frequency (despite the fact that their dealership had done them on time). NHTSA had several reports of similar instances. A letter to lexus gave no response. It never made the media (the firestone tire thing was big at the time).

Statistically I'm sure lexus are reliable.
I will never give them another chance to find out. Nor will I let my family.

jimm

That can’t be a good thing.

How did the dealer relate this to frequency of oil changes?

jimm

P.S. Regarding my coming 1 inch from buying a Lexus 460,
I liked it a LOT better before I drove it! That was a
disappointment. Like my previous 06 DTS, the steering wheel
is huge and it seemed to “wallow,” where the E350 is snappy
and agile .. like my Corvette.

It had plenty of power and rode nice but just seemed “mushy.”

stevenW211

My ex-W211 had tried to kill me with the brake failure and I almost hit the car in front of me!!!
Without argument , dealer replaced the whole SBC free of charge even the 2-year warranty is expired since the notorious SBC has 10yrs warranty.

Underwhelmed

Jimm

Lexus said that based on their 'analysis' there was evidence of a lack of oil changes due to the condition of the oil after the fire. I submit that the change in oil viscosity may have, just possibly, had something to do with the electrical fire that melted through the windshield, dash, burned the front half of the car to roughly the consistency of charcoal, and made for an impressive display at rush hour on one of the busiest stretches of interstate in Dallas.

The dealer must have had a gag order because they directed me to talk to Lexus (who would not talk to me). They were willing to lose a customer rather than act as an intermediary.

Lexus had a chance to do the right thing but I guess they were too worried about their image. I was contacted by an attorney representing a client in Florida whose rx300 caught fire while backing out of the garage and burned his house down. Maybe I should have been litigious...

I discourage anyone I can from buying Lexus. I know that on the whole they are extrememly reliable, but obviously they will go to sickening lengths to protect their reputation. This was our second (and last) Lexus.

Flash Gordon

Lexus would never do what they did to you in Japan! If this had happened in Japan, a senior manager from Lexus would come to your house to apologize for what happened to you! I know, I lived in Japan for several years in one of my overseas job assiganments. They will replace your car in Japan without your asking for it. It's a cultural thing. Funny, how they treat the customers totally different in this country.

ProV1

i don't know how many of you owned last generation W210 E-class, but 97-00 W210s have notorious rusting problem where spring perch frame weld can rust through and break. if the perch breaks while driving, this could lead to serious injury or death because the whole suspension comes apart.

while i have not heard of a casualty from this defect, MB USA has NOT issued any sort of recalls or even acknowledged this problem. In contrast, MB Canada issued a recall and extended rust warranty to 10 yrs.

That's the difference between Toyota & MB. While Toyotas have their problems, recalls are issued immediately. MB flat out denies there's a problem and won't pay a dime. My friends with Honda accords got their entire transmission replaced for FREE 6-7 years after they bought the cars because Honda acknowledged there was a defect. Goodluck getting that from MB.

mkaresh

Toyota dragged its feet on the sludge issue. And Honda did settle a class action suit on that transmission--though admittedly this was to extend the 100,000-mile warranty they'd provided voluntarily to 109,000.

On the research, E-Class owners have been signing up more often recently. As a result, a few model years are now about halfway to the minimum needed to get started.

Vik888

For those of you that think Toyota is better than MB, etc., I hope you've actually owned the cars!

I own a 1995 4Runner .. for production dates 2 months after mine, Toyota offered rebuilt engines due to a defect in the engine. My engine had the defect but they refuse to cover it, so I had to fork over $3k to have it rebuilt.

A family member owns a 2001 Corolla .. sure it gets 35mpg .. but the build quality has been so poor and the car makes strange noises constantly.

Toyota has also had a lot of recalls.

Basically, I wont buy another Toyota/Lexass.

DerekACS

[QUOTE=Vik888;2292460 Toyota has also had a lot of recalls.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, you sure got that right ! See post #16 above.

mkaresh

Other surveys are showing that Mercedes' reliability is improving. Can't say based on my own research yet, because not enough Mercedes owners have been participating. I will have results for nearly 100 other models next month, though.

mkaresh

Continue to seek more owners. Just started collecting data on the 2008 BMW 5-Series, the new 535 seems to be selling very well.

For the details, and to sign up to help out:

Vehicle reliability research

kevmac

I agree. Toyota is overrated in my opinion. There are worse, but I had a brand new 07 Camry and the build quality left much to be desired. Within a month, two of the seatbelt retractors needed replacing. The fabric on the rear seats had rolls because of a poor design that does not allow a tightly fit (for leather or cloth). I had to fix the rubber lining near the windows myself because they were sloppily put together and the bracket for the visor popped out on me. I've had issues with other Toyotas before and always overlooked them, but by 3K miles, I had enough.

A relative had her Lexus ES300 stolen (and recovered) TWICE because the security system was so unreliable. Some of crystals in the LCD headunit of a GS300 she got later stopped displaying for whatever reason and a ball joint busted while she was driving.

I won't even get into Yamaha (owned partly by Toyota), whose motorcycle engine and tranny reliability has been suspect for years.

Vik888

Yup. I had to have my engine rebuilt due to a known defect. Toyota agreed to recall and fix only 50% of the cars. When I google'd the problem, thousands of people that were left stranded with a costly rebuild. Lots of other issues.

On another later model Toyota, it started developing rust around the rear passenger window. Go figure. The driver's side arm rest came off as well. Other minor issues.

No more Toyota's for me.

mkaresh

There are certainly no guarantees, with any car. Often people think that the differences are huge, that some cars never break while others are in the shop "all the time." The reality is that the differences are rarely large.

Making the size of the differences clearer is the main point of my research. Hence the name of the site, "delta" represents a difference in mathematical notation.

jimm

I think your private test is a great idea and will be happy
to give you my progress reports as they play out.

So far:

Got my car June 12.

* In shop for new wiper blades.
* In shop for alignment. (Still pulls to right.)
* In shop 2 times for ESP replacement.

Will keep you informed.

jimm

==========

‘08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black, Parktronic,
Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut, Split rear seat,
Wood/leather steering wheel

Vik888

The alignment if to MB spec on a W211 will result in right pull. Search for it. There is a bolt/camber kit that needs to be installed.

jimm

Thanks, but I got that with the alignment.

jimm

mkaresh

Thanks. You will be able to post your repair history on the site as it accumulates (or doesn't).

But I'm not including the E-Class in the Vehicle Reliability Survey until at least 25 owners are signed up for a model year. For most recent years the number of owners signed up is currently 12 to 14.

If the E-Class was included, the ESP repairs would be reportable, but I exclude the others as maintenance. In your case the alignment might be beyond maintenance, but I can't split hairs on which ones should count and which ones should not because no one reads detailed instructions.