E-Class #1 in Class JD Power IQS
06-12-2007, 12:38 PM
#76
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I express it in this manner because it only pisses MB yahoos like you off. MB owners who are aware that MB needs to shape up( and has) are not angry. Only people who are ignorant and snobby can't stand it when someone complains about the crap that they got from their cars and and the manufacturer.
I also complain about my GS on the Lexus board about how the suspension could be better but I don't get Lexus yahoos telling me to shut up. Obviously I can't complain about their customer service since it has been exceptional up to now.
You don't see me going to hassle the owner who complained about his RX330 getting on fire because if he had a problem with his car or his dealings with Lexus he has the right to complain and post his opinions any way he likes. What you think idiots like you badgering me will stop me from posting my problems.
I also complain about my GS on the Lexus board about how the suspension could be better but I don't get Lexus yahoos telling me to shut up. Obviously I can't complain about their customer service since it has been exceptional up to now.
You don't see me going to hassle the owner who complained about his RX330 getting on fire because if he had a problem with his car or his dealings with Lexus he has the right to complain and post his opinions any way he likes. What you think idiots like you badgering me will stop me from posting my problems.
So, the only complaint you've had with your GS is the suspension? Great, I think the suspension could be improved in various MBs as well (too soft in the AMGs, still).
There is a huge difference between other board members who have complained and expressed their feelings about Mercedes and you. I'll leave it to you to figure out what the difference is or let others point it out for you.
06-12-2007, 04:59 PM
#77
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I think you misunderstood the intent of my posts. I do not deny the problems (and the fact they exist) of Mercedes-Benz automobiles. I do not deny the problems you have had with your vehicles. I do not deny anything.
So, the only complaint you've had with your GS is the suspension? Great, I think the suspension could be improved in various MBs as well (too soft in the AMGs, still).
There is a huge difference between other board members who have complained and expressed their feelings about Mercedes and you. I'll leave it to you to figure out what the difference is or let others point it out for you.
So, the only complaint you've had with your GS is the suspension? Great, I think the suspension could be improved in various MBs as well (too soft in the AMGs, still).
There is a huge difference between other board members who have complained and expressed their feelings about Mercedes and you. I'll leave it to you to figure out what the difference is or let others point it out for you.
06-12-2007, 06:26 PM
#78
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2015 E250 BT 4M
This thread started out with very positive news for Mercedes and the E Class in particular.
Unfortunately, one very angry and unreasonable owner has hijacked this good news to vent his never ending venom.
If I were Mercedes-Benz USA, I would negotiate with this gentleman to buy back his car(s) on two conditions :
1. an agreement to keep silent about all matters pertaining to the reputation of Mercedes-Benz, and
2. an agreement that he never purchase another Mercedes product, new or used, ever again and that he never sets foot in a Mercedes dealership for the rest of his life.
I feel pity for any Mercedes dealer that he goes near.
06-12-2007, 08:12 PM
#79
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06-12-2007, 08:57 PM
#80
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2015 E250 BT 4M
Only MB is offering diesels in Canada at the moment: E320 Bluetec, ML 320CDI, GL320CDI, R 320CDI and Smartfor2. These five models accounted for almost 40% of MB sales in Canada for May. If you deduct the Smart sales, all the remaining modesl had a 20% diesel share.
06-13-2007, 12:52 AM
#81
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Man you always waver on what you say. Again you go back on your word. You say "Man please you're so lost it isn't worth responding to you any more" now you say "Not unless you say something particularly stupid. I have the feeling I'll be responding soon." This is what I mean that it is impossible to argue with someone as Stupid as you.
Since you are not capable or understand what it means to be on one side of a debate I will no longer respond to you then. I will just keep posting what I want to post since you are a waste of time.
Since you are not capable or understand what it means to be on one side of a debate I will no longer respond to you then. I will just keep posting what I want to post since you are a waste of time.
M
06-13-2007, 12:55 AM
#82
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I express it in this manner because it only pisses MB yahoos like you off. MB owners who are aware that MB needs to shape up( and has) are not angry. Only people who are ignorant and snobby can't stand it when someone complains about the crap that they got from their cars and and the manufacturer.
I also complain about my GS on the Lexus board about how the suspension could be better but I don't get Lexus yahoos telling me to shut up. Obviously I can't complain about their customer service since it has been exceptional up to now.
You don't see me going to hassle the owner who complained about his RX330 getting on fire because if he had a problem with his car or his dealings with Lexus he has the right to complain and post his opinions any way he likes. What you think idiots like you badgering me will stop me from posting my problems.
I also complain about my GS on the Lexus board about how the suspension could be better but I don't get Lexus yahoos telling me to shut up. Obviously I can't complain about their customer service since it has been exceptional up to now.
You don't see me going to hassle the owner who complained about his RX330 getting on fire because if he had a problem with his car or his dealings with Lexus he has the right to complain and post his opinions any way he likes. What you think idiots like you badgering me will stop me from posting my problems.
This proves what I just stated. Everyone gets this yet you feel the need to repeat it again, you're the most clueless person I've seen here. You're too caught up in your personal agenda to realize that I have agreed with you on most of what you've mentioned here, only objecting to the way you keep harping about it like we don't understand what you're saying. Just because you keep repeating something over and over doesn't mean you're going to change anyone's mind here. You're only making yourself look foolish.
M
06-13-2007, 09:38 AM
#83
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This proves what I just stated. Everyone gets this yet you feel the need to repeat it again, you're the most clueless person I've seen here. You're too caught up in your personal agenda to realize that I have agreed with you on most of what you've mentioned here, only objecting to the way you keep harping about it like we don't understand what you're saying. Just because you keep repeating something over and over doesn't mean you're going to change anyone's mind here. You're only making yourself look foolish.
M
M
You also said "Not unless you say something particularly stupid. I have the feeling I'll be responding soon." Not only do you repeat yourself you can't even make up your mind what the hell you are going to do.
06-13-2007, 09:46 AM
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Yes, I agree !
This thread started out with very positive news for Mercedes and the E Class in particular.
Unfortunately, one very angry and unreasonable owner has hijacked this good news to vent his never ending venom.
If I were Mercedes-Benz USA, I would negotiate with this gentleman to buy back his car(s) on two conditions :
1. an agreement to keep silent about all matters pertaining to the reputation of Mercedes-Benz, and
2. an agreement that he never purchase another Mercedes product, new or used, ever again and that he never sets foot in a Mercedes dealership for the rest of his life.
I feel pity for any Mercedes dealer that he goes near.
This thread started out with very positive news for Mercedes and the E Class in particular.
Unfortunately, one very angry and unreasonable owner has hijacked this good news to vent his never ending venom.
If I were Mercedes-Benz USA, I would negotiate with this gentleman to buy back his car(s) on two conditions :
1. an agreement to keep silent about all matters pertaining to the reputation of Mercedes-Benz, and
2. an agreement that he never purchase another Mercedes product, new or used, ever again and that he never sets foot in a Mercedes dealership for the rest of his life.
I feel pity for any Mercedes dealer that he goes near.
Before you call me an unreasonable customer do you actually know what I had to go through?
And MB wouldn't have to make me promise to never buy another one again because I wouldn't anyways.
Last edited by rieger; 06-13-2007 at 09:49 AM.
06-13-2007, 10:00 AM
#85
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Guys PLEASE! You've reduced this thread to a 3 Stooges "Poke in the Eye" level. Its gone on far too long, and neither of you will convince the other that he is wrong. Ever.
Please! Enough.
Please! Enough.
06-13-2007, 01:27 PM
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Sorry for the diversion but ticks me off when Germancar1 tells me to get out when I was posting my opinions.
Back to the subject. It's good to here the E and S-class had good IQS but MB needs good IQS in the B and C class to draw in new customers and to keep them or otherwise BMW will get the younger and up and coming new customers with the 1 and 3 series. Main competitor may not be Lexus but BMW ( already the largest luxury manufacturer )once they get the Bangle design out of their system.
Back to the subject. It's good to here the E and S-class had good IQS but MB needs good IQS in the B and C class to draw in new customers and to keep them or otherwise BMW will get the younger and up and coming new customers with the 1 and 3 series. Main competitor may not be Lexus but BMW ( already the largest luxury manufacturer )once they get the Bangle design out of their system.
06-13-2007, 03:25 PM
#89
Super Member
The JD Power is only the "Initial Quality" survey. It has nothing to do with the reliability of the make. The "only" reliable data regarding the reliability of the car is the annual Consumer Report ownership survey which takes into account of the long term ownership of a specific model.
There is a big difference between Initial Quality and long term reliability. All of us are more interested in the long term reliability. Problems with the Initial Quality is usually easily fixed under new car warranty! In addition, during the warranty of your car, how often do you have to take your car to the dealer for repair is also very important. But when your warranty runs out, that's when the rubber meets the road.
There is a big difference between Initial Quality and long term reliability. All of us are more interested in the long term reliability. Problems with the Initial Quality is usually easily fixed under new car warranty! In addition, during the warranty of your car, how often do you have to take your car to the dealer for repair is also very important. But when your warranty runs out, that's when the rubber meets the road.
06-13-2007, 05:09 PM
#90
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2017 C63s Cabriolet
The JD Power is only the "Initial Quality" survey. It has nothing to do with the reliability of the make. The "only" reliable data regarding the reliability of the car is the annual Consumer Report ownership survey which takes into account of the long term ownership of a specific model.
There is a big difference between Initial Quality and long term reliability. All of us are more interested in the long term reliability. Problems with the Initial Quality is usually easily fixed under new car warranty! In addition, during the warranty of your car, how often do you have to take your car to the dealer for repair is also very important. But when your warranty runs out, that's when the rubber meets the road.
There is a big difference between Initial Quality and long term reliability. All of us are more interested in the long term reliability. Problems with the Initial Quality is usually easily fixed under new car warranty! In addition, during the warranty of your car, how often do you have to take your car to the dealer for repair is also very important. But when your warranty runs out, that's when the rubber meets the road.
06-13-2007, 07:31 PM
#91
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Conclusions of CR v's J.D.Power & Associates
You have a lot more faith in Consumer Reports than many others do.
IMO, "Initial Quality" is usually a good predictor of long term reliability.
CR's research methodology is at times questionable. There have been several instances where CR has had to retract their conclusions about various products. Remember, CR only receives data from a small percentage of their subscribers. They base their conclusions on a relatively small sample size.
In the case of Mercedes-Benz owners, what percentage of these owners do you believe subscribe to CR ? Perhaps 5 - 10% ? And, of those, what small percentage (possiblly 5% ?) would actually take the time to fill out an extensive questionaire ? In my view, of this tiny percentage of MB owners, the dissatisfied ones will predominate if there are any problems to report, thereby skewing the results. Satisfied customers often do not bother to register their approval.
Unlike Consumer Reports, J.D.Power & Associates can access a random sampling of owners' addresses provided by the manufacturer. This is a critical difference in the scope and validity of the sample population.
For the above reasons, I for one place more faith in J.D. Power's conclusions than I ever will with CR.
06-14-2007, 02:21 AM
#92
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Let me repeat this for you again than you said ""Man please you're so lost it isn't worth responding to you any more" you say "you're the most clueless person I've seen here." So it looks like I am not the only one who likes repeating myself. So before you say "Wow this coming from a person who repeats the same thing over and over" why don't you read your own posts first.
You also said "Not unless you say something particularly stupid. I have the feeling I'll be responding soon." Not only do you repeat yourself you can't even make up your mind what the hell you are going to do.
You also said "Not unless you say something particularly stupid. I have the feeling I'll be responding soon." Not only do you repeat yourself you can't even make up your mind what the hell you are going to do.
For the record, no one told you to get out, I asked why are you here. When you don't get you really don't get it, as is your case. You would have to be a total idiot to see that people don't care for your posts or more importantly your posting style. Again, why would a person who harps about MB having so many problems be on a MB board? In the past you said just to mess with what you call "MB Yahoos", yet I'm the one with the problem here? Clueless, utterly clueless you are.
You'll waste no more of my time.
M
Last edited by Germancar1; 06-14-2007 at 02:24 AM.
06-14-2007, 08:01 AM
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The IQS is actually broken down to 2 aspects 1. physical defects and 2. design defects. Does anyone have access to this detailed info so they can post it up? This would give us a better understanding of the severity of the problems since physical defects can be easily fixed at the dealer while design defects are a little more difficult.
06-14-2007, 12:03 PM
#95
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I have no intention to debate about the importance of Initial Quality and the lack of faith in Consumer Report annual car owners survey. All I want to say is that I am, like most other prudent owners, interested more in long term reliability. To me, if you have to see the dealer for many repairs even during the warranty period, it is not acceptable. My daily rider, 2004 G35X with 39K, has never been to the dealer for repairs. To me, that's acceptable reliability
Maybe my bar is higher than some others.
Maybe my bar is higher than some others.
06-14-2007, 12:21 PM
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As far as MB is concerned, the recent evidence strongly suggests that quality control is improving greatly. Your point about long term reliability is valid; we all want that for our cars.
06-14-2007, 12:22 PM
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2007 E63
The IQS is actually broken down to 2 aspects 1. physical defects and 2. design defects. Does anyone have access to this detailed info so they can post it up? This would give us a better understanding of the severity of the problems since physical defects can be easily fixed at the dealer while design defects are a little more difficult.
06-14-2007, 01:36 PM
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Except for its 3000 Mile "Get Acquainted Check-Up", my car has needed NO trips to the Service department, no repairs or adjustments. It has been perfect. That rates a #1 in my opinion.
06-15-2007, 03:09 AM
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Lexus GS 450h
Another brilliant post. You're right things have changed. Even the dependability surveys have changed from 5 to 3 years at JDP I think. You're very right about the Koreans too. Thing is though I'd love to see the Koreans stick it to the Japanese just like the Japanese stuck it to the Americans and Germans. If a company like Hyundai can build a Lexus for less money and equal it on quality then Japan INC. is in deep sh*t.
The Europeans will always have their styling and driving qualities to save them to a degree, but duplicating a Lexus is going to be quite easy for the Koreans IMO, because the Lexus itself isn't anything original. Duplicating a German car has proven much tougher, especially when it comes to BMWs. Lexus did build a Japanese Mercedes, but the time when Mercedes needed to fear Lexus' LS is over. They're run too far up in price and they've never got the ride/handling mix quite right, nor the look and feel. Japan INC may find themselves being crushed between the Koreans and the Germans in the next 5-10 years. Germans are masters, especially Mercedes at building big and expensive, and BMW is a master at the other end. Where does that leave Lexus? Out in the wind if the Koreans do what I think they're going to do.
Lexus would have never become so popular if it weren't for Shremp and his bungling of Mercedes' quality and R&D cuts during 1998-2004 or so. If Mercedes does manage to get all their cars in the top 3 of their respective categories in the IQS and more, much more importantly the 3 year dependability surveys, Lexus is going to see some tough times. Reliability is what drove thousands of former MB drivers to Lexus, not styling, performance, or anything remotely car like, it was all dealership treatment and reliability, things MB can fix. Seemingly they are doing just that, but Lexus still doesn't make a single car that drives like a German car, something they either aren't willing or can't do. Anyone can do smooth and quiet.
M
The Europeans will always have their styling and driving qualities to save them to a degree, but duplicating a Lexus is going to be quite easy for the Koreans IMO, because the Lexus itself isn't anything original. Duplicating a German car has proven much tougher, especially when it comes to BMWs. Lexus did build a Japanese Mercedes, but the time when Mercedes needed to fear Lexus' LS is over. They're run too far up in price and they've never got the ride/handling mix quite right, nor the look and feel. Japan INC may find themselves being crushed between the Koreans and the Germans in the next 5-10 years. Germans are masters, especially Mercedes at building big and expensive, and BMW is a master at the other end. Where does that leave Lexus? Out in the wind if the Koreans do what I think they're going to do.
Lexus would have never become so popular if it weren't for Shremp and his bungling of Mercedes' quality and R&D cuts during 1998-2004 or so. If Mercedes does manage to get all their cars in the top 3 of their respective categories in the IQS and more, much more importantly the 3 year dependability surveys, Lexus is going to see some tough times. Reliability is what drove thousands of former MB drivers to Lexus, not styling, performance, or anything remotely car like, it was all dealership treatment and reliability, things MB can fix. Seemingly they are doing just that, but Lexus still doesn't make a single car that drives like a German car, something they either aren't willing or can't do. Anyone can do smooth and quiet.
M
Anyway, kudos to Benz, lets hope this begins a TREND and is not a one year thing. Glad to seem them improve so well.
