E-Class #1 in Class JD Power IQS
06-15-2007, 10:32 AM
#101
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A comment about the Koreans taking on the Japanese...having some experience working with engineering groups in both countries, I saw a vast difference in the methods of each in terms of quality. Both were tenacious, but the Koreans carried about in a sloppier, fast and loose mentality, when it came to product. Whether or not this carries over to auto production may or may not be the case.
06-16-2007, 01:03 PM
#103
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Another brilliant post. You're right things have changed. Even the dependability surveys have changed from 5 to 3 years at JDP I think. You're very right about the Koreans too. Thing is though I'd love to see the Koreans stick it to the Japanese just like the Japanese stuck it to the Americans and Germans. If a company like Hyundai can build a Lexus for less money and equal it on quality then Japan INC. is in deep sh*t.
The Europeans will always have their styling and driving qualities to save them to a degree, but duplicating a Lexus is going to be quite easy for the Koreans IMO, because the Lexus itself isn't anything original. Duplicating a German car has proven much tougher, especially when it comes to BMWs. Lexus did build a Japanese Mercedes, but the time when Mercedes needed to fear Lexus' LS is over. They're run too far up in price and they've never got the ride/handling mix quite right, nor the look and feel. Japan INC may find themselves being crushed between the Koreans and the Germans in the next 5-10 years. Germans are masters, especially Mercedes at building big and expensive, and BMW is a master at the other end. Where does that leave Lexus? Out in the wind if the Koreans do what I think they're going to do.
Lexus would have never become so popular if it weren't for Shremp and his bungling of Mercedes' quality and R&D cuts during 1998-2004 or so. If Mercedes does manage to get all their cars in the top 3 of their respective categories in the IQS and more, much more importantly the 3 year dependability surveys, Lexus is going to see some tough times. Reliability is what drove thousands of former MB drivers to Lexus, not styling, performance, or anything remotely car like, it was all dealership treatment and reliability, things MB can fix. Seemingly they are doing just that, but Lexus still doesn't make a single car that drives like a German car, something they either aren't willing or can't do. Anyone can do smooth and quiet.
M
The Europeans will always have their styling and driving qualities to save them to a degree, but duplicating a Lexus is going to be quite easy for the Koreans IMO, because the Lexus itself isn't anything original. Duplicating a German car has proven much tougher, especially when it comes to BMWs. Lexus did build a Japanese Mercedes, but the time when Mercedes needed to fear Lexus' LS is over. They're run too far up in price and they've never got the ride/handling mix quite right, nor the look and feel. Japan INC may find themselves being crushed between the Koreans and the Germans in the next 5-10 years. Germans are masters, especially Mercedes at building big and expensive, and BMW is a master at the other end. Where does that leave Lexus? Out in the wind if the Koreans do what I think they're going to do.
Lexus would have never become so popular if it weren't for Shremp and his bungling of Mercedes' quality and R&D cuts during 1998-2004 or so. If Mercedes does manage to get all their cars in the top 3 of their respective categories in the IQS and more, much more importantly the 3 year dependability surveys, Lexus is going to see some tough times. Reliability is what drove thousands of former MB drivers to Lexus, not styling, performance, or anything remotely car like, it was all dealership treatment and reliability, things MB can fix. Seemingly they are doing just that, but Lexus still doesn't make a single car that drives like a German car, something they either aren't willing or can't do. Anyone can do smooth and quiet.
M
Also you say that lexus never got the handling and ride quite right, but that is because maybe they didn't want their cars to ride exactly like a MB. If you go to the BMW and Audi forums they say the same about MB's ride and handling. Its not that they can't but maybe they choose not to have the same ride and handling as MB. Maybe in the future they may produce something more for the American and European market but currently they are gearing more towards the Asian market where many people that own Lexus, BMW or MB are driven by chauffeurs and where the roads are bumpier hence the softer ride. Also maybe the are looking at the baby boomers getting older and that they may want a softer and more luxurious ride.
Maybe this is a dumb question on a MB forum but who thinks that lexus has peaked and is on the way down.
I think that the luxury market is still growing and that BMW, MB and Lexus will all grow in their own niche markets.
Last edited by rieger; 06-16-2007 at 02:38 PM.
