CaptMike

I have noticed a problem while in the Logic 7 mode (ONLY).
Your E320 will probibly do it also, as I have had the car in the shop for 2 days and it can be dupucated on other 2003 cars.

It has also been confirmed as "operates as designed" by MB tech reps.

If you select your fader to the aft most rear and your ballance all the way to the right and listen to a cd or FM in the Logic 7 mode you should hear that the speakers are "cutting in and out".

You may have to listen for about 2-3 minutes. Also if you move the ballance control 1 segment to the LEFT, from the full right position, this may enhance this "problem"


Like I said...when the dealor told me it was operating as designed, I was P***ed. Even more P***ed when they told me the other cars on the lot are going the same thing, I had to go there today a verify for myself on 3 cars that I choose at random...they all did this.


You will get a better listening advantage if you sit in the back right seat.

How many of you hear this?

Ryu

CaptMike, I noticed the exact same problem in my car. It would sound normal when the fader and balance are in their default position, but the sound cuts in and out as you describe when they are move toword right rear.

After careful observation, I believe the problem comes from the right rear spearker, the one on the back shelf(?). Did you try getting the gateway and speakers changed, did that help?

Anyway, I have another question for all Logic7 owners, especially ones from outside North America. My car (Asia spec.) supposedly comes with Logic7, but in the sound menu I do not get the Logic7 option like everyone elses, instead I have these options:

Acoustic (normal stereo), Driver, Language, Surround (default), Surround front, Surround centre, and Surround rear.

My question is, do I really have Logic7 sound system or do I have something else?

CaptMike

Ryu

Thanks for the reply, hopfully other owners will discover this abnormality and post there findings so MB can discover this "problem"

I did have a new audio gateway installed due to a service bulletin
involving intermittent power failure to the audio system.

The cutting in out out problem with the RR speakerS did this before and after the insillation of the NEW audio gateway.

if you listin closely is is not confined to the RR speaker in the back right door, rather it may be in the RR speaker also that is located in the hat shelf by the back window. You can hear this by moving the ballance control 1 segment to the left from the full right position. I do not think this is a speaker problem but a software or aplifier problem. More documentation is needed for MB to have a fix.

Granted, you will not be listing to Logic 7 normally with the fader/ballance in the right rear position. I'm only pointing out that this abnormality can be heard in that position.

I guess individual owners will have to either accept this "glitch" or not since this will not be the setting that they will be listing to music at.

CaptMike

Well, after about 2 years dealing with this problem, I finally pushed for a factory tech rep to hear this anomaly. We met at the dealer and he listened and heard the problem as mentioned above. He then brought a 2005 w/command into the shop and attempted to duplicate it on that car. I told him that it would not do it...the only cars that were doing it were the 03's w/o command. Sure enough, the 2005 did not demonstrate this problem.

He then wanted to see what parts were common and uncommon on both cars....mine and the 2005. When I went to go pick up the car that eve. the shop foreman said that they thought they had it fixed.

Well, I could not believe what I heard from my system. No longer the complained about cutting in/out of speakers as first described.

He told me that they took the audio gateway (of which I have had 3 already) out of the 2005, in which that style has a fan built into the unit, and replaced mine with it. The 2005 which took my audio gateway now exhibits my old problem.

I also asked the factory rep on updates on selecting presets via the steering wheel. He said that they are very much aware of the requests for it but it does not look like a programming update any time soon.

I asked about the ipod installs on previous E model years, and he indicated that might be happening but nothing for sure.

scorchie

Wow, even the latest software on the AGW doesn't fix it? The fan can be retrofit to the older AGW, there is a kit for those who have heat related problems.

-s-

CaptMike

There was an attempted fix which involved retrofitting a fan to a audio gateway, which is what I think your talking about, to try to solve the static problem (separate problem for which I am talking about here.) According to my shop foreman, this did not fix the overheating problem. The gateways that have a built in fan (integrated) is being used to try to eliminate that particular problem.

marksatex

I suggested that MB install a ceiling fan in the trunk to cool the gateway. I even suggested the fan could be purchased on sale or in bulk..... They didn't think it was cute. I mean I had this failure weekly on the 03.

konigstiger

How did they write this up – warranty or goodwill? Would you be willing to email supportive paperwork so that I may duplicate your retrofit? Did Niles have a hand in this – at any level? Lastly, can you actually hear any difference during normal logic 7 listening?

Good work, glad to see I'm not alone
Dan

CaptMike

1. I do not have the paperwork on it yet, however the foreman said that MB still considers the gateway that I had to working without defect and would not normally cover this under warranty. However, they would do this under goodwill...that is what I expect to see on the paperwork.

2. Yes, I would be willing to email you that info.

3. Niles did have a hand in this in this way. He first had the appropriate MB rep contact me to describe the problem. At the end of that telephone conversation with that particular MB rep and subsequent telephone calls between him and the tech rep that I finally ended up meeting with and
my dealer, it was concluded that there was nothing further that they could do for me. It was at that time that this MB rep offered me a CD changer or 1 year extended warranty...both of which I already have. I told him that I would get back to him. I then call Neils again and related my disappointment in the way this was handled. Neils agreed that he did not like it either.
I then received another phone call from the same MB rep Neils had referred me to. It was at that time a appointment at the dealer to meet with the MB Tech Rep. was made.

4. During NORMAL listening I can say that I do hear a difference.

I have a call into Neils as I write this.

scorchie

Actually, no, it isn't because of that. I am referring the documents now.

Service information states:

Audio gateway shuts off, replace fan if AGW overheating.

Static problems, straighten kinked fibre optic wiring, or ensure AGW bracket is properly grounded (may not be due to paint insulation).

While looking through this, I found WIS documentation about what appears to be your problem, as solved in March 2004...

Diagnosis: "Interference can occur with all audio sources in Surround (Logic7) mode. Insert Audio CD. If the subwoofer is muted, the interference in the Surround mode can only be heard clearly when set to Fader->rear. Select surround mode. If interference can be heard, switch to Speech Optimized mode. Rewind CD to point where interference was heard. Check whether interference can also be heard in Speech Optimized mode. If the interference is no longer heard, read out Sahara version (requires DAS version 03/04 or later). If nothing or less than E30 is indicated (6034ME30), remove/install/replace AGW. Otherwise, flash AGW with current AGW software release."

This is valid for up to chassis number 393368 (mine is in there too, I suspect it is 2003 models). Operation number is 827479, which should be in ASRA by now. It should be covered under warranty. WIS document AF82.62-P-1060A.

Run to your dealerships now.

-s-

scorchie

For those living in California, Arizona, Texas, etc. that are hot, if you want the fan, ask your dealership to refer to WIS document AF82.60-P-6030A, which covers retrofitting the fans to older cars (should be warranty).

-s-

konigstiger

If you want a copy of AF82.62-P-1060A, private message your email address. As mentioned, it’s free under warranty and pertains to ALL 211s up to VIN 397491.

CaptMike

After reading AF82.62-P-1060A in its entirety, I do not believe that it related to my problem. As mentioned before, my problem was not that of "interference" as mentioned in the above document.

Although replacement of the Audio Gateway as related to Logic 7 are common in my case and the above document, it appears that customers who are experiencing this "interference" may not be experiencing the my original complaint while in Logic 7.

These very well might be a moot point (we shall see) as the remedy for both cases in a change in the Audio Gateway. It should also be noted that any change to the Audio Gateway should not be for the same part number but for the latest Gateway as installed on "05 automobiles

scorchie

I believe it is the same problem you were experiencing. The documents are translated from German, so although the words may sometimes not be exactly correct, they are the best translation by someone who knows nothing about the problem.

-s-

CaptMike

Your statement would lead me to other questions.....what date was that document published?

When did YOU first learn of this?

konigstiger

Mike thanks for the heads up. Picked my 03 up today and it sounds great - all aound. Had also requested that the zinc coated AGW bracket be installed at the same time as a precaution for static (TSB P-B-82.62/361a) but apparently this part is currently unavailable - none in USA or Germany. Thanks agian. BTW, word on the street is that you're getting a wood/leather steering wheel - excellent choice.

CaptMike

Dan, glad to see that all worked out on your audio. I have not had the static problem for about 1 year now and don't know if they had put the Zink coated brackets in at that time or not.....it do not think they did. If that particular problem arises I will seek out that fix.

The wood wheel came in the day after I ordered it and I scheduled an install for the following day. I should have gone to parts and looked at wheel the day it came in but thought I would just do it the day of the appointment. In any event, after inspecting the wheel in parts, I noticed 4 ripples on the leather (left side) that ran perpendicular to the wheel. I would not be able to live with that so another was order and should be here on Monday.

In regards to SCORCHIEs' comment and lack of reply to my last comment on the
WIS document AF82.62-P-1060A issue, see next post below.

CaptMike

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorchie
I believe it is the same problem you were experiencing. The documents are translated from German, so although the words may sometimes not be exactly correct, they are the best translation by someone who knows nothing about the problem.

-s-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captmike
Your statement would lead me to other questions.....what date was that document published?

When did YOU first learn of this?

(there was not reply to the above post)

I showed the shop forman the WIS document, AF82.62-P-1060A, and he stated that this WIS in fact did not apply to my problem. He stated that this WIS was so far behind all of the updates/falshes ect. I had in my car.

In other words, each flash, replacement, software release ect mentioned in that WIS had been superseeded by later releases of the same and had already been installed in my car, which did not fix the problem at that time.

esport

!

scorchie

To answer your original questions (which I didn't see previously), I learned of the document when I posted it. The date on the document is late April 2004, meaning it was probably published in the June WIS update.

I do not see how it did not apply to your car. If the procedure there would have been followed, you would have had a new Audio Gateway already back then, which you claim has been the solution.

The "flashes ect" do NOT fix the problem, as noted in the document; it is either firmware/hardware that does not get updated during a flash.

Regardless, mine is being replaced under this document, first try. Same with the zinc coated bracket, which my dealership has in stock.

Your shop foreman may not be on top of it all, but you would probably be a better judge of that.

-s-

konigstiger

Which dealership with contact info? They told me there were none available at this time in the U.S. & Germany!

Oldbink

Everyone - My name is Mike and I work for an audio tehcnology company that specializes in surround (you can guess the name). I wanted to give you all some info on Logic 7 and why it MAY be exhibiting this behavior.

Logic 7 is a matrix technology that "creates" surround from two channel (Stereo, FM, CD player) sources. This gives the illusion of surround in the car. Basically, it is supposed to envelop everyone in the car. However, these technologies, SRS Circle Surround, Logic 7, Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS NEO:6, all perform in a similar way. The sound you are hearing may be what we call pumping. It is the decoder having a hard time trying to steer the frequencies in the audio. Because the material is either compressed, of poor quality, and not mixed in surround, the decoder, in this case Logic 7, places material where it thinks it should go. However, typically, you listen to music from all speakers at once, masking this problem. Unfortunately, it is a problem with these technologies. Having said that, these are great technologies that typically sound good and I have been pretty pleased with.

Hope this helps you guys....Let me know if you have any questions..

OB

CaptMike

scorchie....sorry but...

After you reply regarding my shop foreman, I called the regional tech rep for MBUSA that handled my case. He also stated, (without my reference that I had already spoke to my forman) that what I had done up to the install of the gateway that was in the 2005 model, had far exceeded what had been called for in that WIS. I'm not saying that the WIS was never done to my car, I'm only pointing out if that was done, it did not fix the problem.

All updates and fixes that the WIS called for had already been done to my car and my car surpassed that WIS in as far as later updates and the problem was still there even after surpassing the called for items in that WIS.

The "latest" gateway (from the 2005 model) fixed the problem as already stated.

Hope this help you.