New JD Power Ratings
05-06-2003, 08:11 PM
#1
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New JD Power Ratings
Just saw a story on CNBC about the new automotive JD Power ratings, Lexus, Caddy and Infiniti were in the top spots with Lexus having multiple winners. Mercedes Benz ranked AVERAGE and slipped even more from the last survey due to "the introduction of the new E Class and which did not do as well as the former model" I' m sure the new CLK added to the drop...I can attest to that
05-06-2003, 08:39 PM
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14 'E550
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: May 6, 2003
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—New and redesigned model launches often demonstrate high initial quality, which may dispel the myth that quality always suffers during new-vehicle launches, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Initial Quality StudySM released today. An analysis of all replacement-model launches and major vehicle redesigns since 1998 shows an average decline of only 5 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) in initial quality in the launch year, which is usually more than regained in the year after launch.
"Consumers often delay purchasing a model in its first year, waiting for the manufacturer to get the so-called bugs out," said Joe Ivers, partner and executive director of quality/customer satisfaction at J.D. Power and Associates. "Yet, the quality of most new-model launches is actually very good. Some manufacturers have virtually eliminated the launch-year quality drop-off. A few have even demonstrated a pattern of launching models with better initial quality than the models they replaced."
Launch-year initial quality for replacement models at Mitsubishi, for example, has averaged 26 PP100 better than predecessor models in recent years. Newly launched/redesigned vehicles from Hyundai, Toyota and the Chrysler Group also record better initial quality on average than the models being replaced.
The study also finds that for the first time since 1998, the industry has not shown year-over-year improvement in initial quality overall, and remains flat at 133 PP100. Between 1998 and 2002, the industry achieved steady improvement, averaging 6.7 percent per year.
"The initial quality drive for improvement among some manufacturers has been stalled by new-model launches that were especially challenging," said Ivers. "For other manufacturers, existing models show some deterioration that offset initial quality improvements elsewhere."
However, several manufacturers have accomplished significant improvements in initial quality in 2003. Suzuki is the most improved nameplate, improving 31 percent over 2002, due largely to the successful launch of the all-new Aerio. Mercury, Kia and Jaguar also have improved by 22 percent, 21 percent and 14 percent, respectively.
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., is the highest-ranking corporation in the 2003 IQS, followed by Porsche Cars North America, Inc., BMW of North America and American Honda Motor Co. Lexus is the top-ranked nameplate.
At the model level, Toyota Motor Sales vehicles rank highest in six segments, Ford Motor Company vehicles rank highest in five, General Motors Corp. in three and American Honda and DaimlerChrysler vehicles each rank highest in one segment.
The study shows that the initial quality gap between Domestic, European, Japanese and Korean brands continues to narrow. While Domestics trailed their European and Japanese counterparts by at least 19 PP100 five years ago, Domestics and Europeans are now equal, and both trail the Japanese by 9 PP100. Korean manufacturers have demonstrated substantial five-year improvements in initial quality. In 1998, 116 PP100 separated Korean brands from the Europeans, which led the industry. By 2003, the quality gap between the Koreans and the industry-leading Japanese fell to 26 PP100.
The study also reveals that vehicles built by German and Japanese manufacturers in their native markets record higher average initial quality overall than those built in their North American plants. Vehicles produced in Germany by BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen, and those produced in Japan by Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota demonstrated overall higher initial quality than the vehicles built by their North American plants. There are exceptions, such as vehicles produced by Acura, Mazda and Subaru in North American plants, which show higher quality than other vehicles built at their assembly plants in Japan.
"It is important to note that often these manufacturers build different models in North America, and that some of these designs may be more difficult to build," said Ivers. "However, standardizing quality regardless of the model, platform or plant is becoming a core requirement of a global competitor."
With regard to specific models, only the Honda Accord and Civic and Toyota Camry and Corolla are produced in both North American and Japanese plants. Honda Accords built in Japan have a nearly 25 PP100 advantage over those built in North American plants, while Civics built in North America have a nearly 15 PP100 advantage over their Japanese-built counterparts. Toyota Corollas built in both Japan and North America are almost identical in initial quality. There was insufficient sample to provide the same analysis for the Camry.
2003 IQS Assembly Plant Awards
For the second consecutive year, Toyota’s Tahara, Japan, car plant receives the Platinum award for worldwide plant quality with a score of 63 PP100. Toyota sweeps the plant awards in the Asia Pacific region, with the Motomachi, Japan, assembly plant receiving the Silver plant award and the Tsutsumi, Japan, assembly plant receiving the Bronze. The General Motors Oshawa #1 plant in Ontario, Canada, and its new Lansing Grand River, Mich., plant receive the Gold and Silver North/South American plant awards, respectively, while Ford Motor Company’s Atlanta plant receives the Bronze. In Europe, BMW’s Munich, Germany, assembly plant receives the Gold award, DaimlerChrysler’s Bremen, Germany, Mercedes-Benz plant receives the Silver, and Ford Motor Company’s Torslanda, Sweden, Volvo plant receives the Bronze.
The 2003 Initial Quality Study is based on responses from more than 52,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2003 model-year cars and trucks who were surveyed after 90 days of ownership. This industry benchmark study for new-vehicle initial quality is now in its 17th year.
Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is an ISO 9001-registered global marketing information services firm operating in key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting, training and customer satisfaction. The firm’s quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually. Media e-mail contact: michael.greywitt@jdpa.com or john.tews@jdpa.com
No advertising or other promotional use can be made of the information in this release without the express prior written consent of J.D. Power and Associates. http://www.jdpower.com
# # #
For charts go to:
http://www.jdpower.com/auto/se...tID=1
And click on "2003 Initial Quality", press on charts for full size.
Summary:
1.Lexus
2.Cadillac
3.Infiniti
4.Acura
5.Buick
6.Mercury
7.Porsche
8.BMW
9.Toyota
10.Jaguar
11.Honda
12.Volvo
13.Chevy
14.Audi
15.MB
All above industry average
.
.
.
.
25.VW
.
34.MINI
.
37.Hummer(LAST)
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—New and redesigned model launches often demonstrate high initial quality, which may dispel the myth that quality always suffers during new-vehicle launches, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Initial Quality StudySM released today. An analysis of all replacement-model launches and major vehicle redesigns since 1998 shows an average decline of only 5 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) in initial quality in the launch year, which is usually more than regained in the year after launch.
"Consumers often delay purchasing a model in its first year, waiting for the manufacturer to get the so-called bugs out," said Joe Ivers, partner and executive director of quality/customer satisfaction at J.D. Power and Associates. "Yet, the quality of most new-model launches is actually very good. Some manufacturers have virtually eliminated the launch-year quality drop-off. A few have even demonstrated a pattern of launching models with better initial quality than the models they replaced."
Launch-year initial quality for replacement models at Mitsubishi, for example, has averaged 26 PP100 better than predecessor models in recent years. Newly launched/redesigned vehicles from Hyundai, Toyota and the Chrysler Group also record better initial quality on average than the models being replaced.
The study also finds that for the first time since 1998, the industry has not shown year-over-year improvement in initial quality overall, and remains flat at 133 PP100. Between 1998 and 2002, the industry achieved steady improvement, averaging 6.7 percent per year.
"The initial quality drive for improvement among some manufacturers has been stalled by new-model launches that were especially challenging," said Ivers. "For other manufacturers, existing models show some deterioration that offset initial quality improvements elsewhere."
However, several manufacturers have accomplished significant improvements in initial quality in 2003. Suzuki is the most improved nameplate, improving 31 percent over 2002, due largely to the successful launch of the all-new Aerio. Mercury, Kia and Jaguar also have improved by 22 percent, 21 percent and 14 percent, respectively.
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., is the highest-ranking corporation in the 2003 IQS, followed by Porsche Cars North America, Inc., BMW of North America and American Honda Motor Co. Lexus is the top-ranked nameplate.
At the model level, Toyota Motor Sales vehicles rank highest in six segments, Ford Motor Company vehicles rank highest in five, General Motors Corp. in three and American Honda and DaimlerChrysler vehicles each rank highest in one segment.
The study shows that the initial quality gap between Domestic, European, Japanese and Korean brands continues to narrow. While Domestics trailed their European and Japanese counterparts by at least 19 PP100 five years ago, Domestics and Europeans are now equal, and both trail the Japanese by 9 PP100. Korean manufacturers have demonstrated substantial five-year improvements in initial quality. In 1998, 116 PP100 separated Korean brands from the Europeans, which led the industry. By 2003, the quality gap between the Koreans and the industry-leading Japanese fell to 26 PP100.
The study also reveals that vehicles built by German and Japanese manufacturers in their native markets record higher average initial quality overall than those built in their North American plants. Vehicles produced in Germany by BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen, and those produced in Japan by Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota demonstrated overall higher initial quality than the vehicles built by their North American plants. There are exceptions, such as vehicles produced by Acura, Mazda and Subaru in North American plants, which show higher quality than other vehicles built at their assembly plants in Japan.
"It is important to note that often these manufacturers build different models in North America, and that some of these designs may be more difficult to build," said Ivers. "However, standardizing quality regardless of the model, platform or plant is becoming a core requirement of a global competitor."
With regard to specific models, only the Honda Accord and Civic and Toyota Camry and Corolla are produced in both North American and Japanese plants. Honda Accords built in Japan have a nearly 25 PP100 advantage over those built in North American plants, while Civics built in North America have a nearly 15 PP100 advantage over their Japanese-built counterparts. Toyota Corollas built in both Japan and North America are almost identical in initial quality. There was insufficient sample to provide the same analysis for the Camry.
2003 IQS Assembly Plant Awards
For the second consecutive year, Toyota’s Tahara, Japan, car plant receives the Platinum award for worldwide plant quality with a score of 63 PP100. Toyota sweeps the plant awards in the Asia Pacific region, with the Motomachi, Japan, assembly plant receiving the Silver plant award and the Tsutsumi, Japan, assembly plant receiving the Bronze. The General Motors Oshawa #1 plant in Ontario, Canada, and its new Lansing Grand River, Mich., plant receive the Gold and Silver North/South American plant awards, respectively, while Ford Motor Company’s Atlanta plant receives the Bronze. In Europe, BMW’s Munich, Germany, assembly plant receives the Gold award, DaimlerChrysler’s Bremen, Germany, Mercedes-Benz plant receives the Silver, and Ford Motor Company’s Torslanda, Sweden, Volvo plant receives the Bronze.
The 2003 Initial Quality Study is based on responses from more than 52,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2003 model-year cars and trucks who were surveyed after 90 days of ownership. This industry benchmark study for new-vehicle initial quality is now in its 17th year.
Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is an ISO 9001-registered global marketing information services firm operating in key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting, training and customer satisfaction. The firm’s quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually. Media e-mail contact: michael.greywitt@jdpa.com or john.tews@jdpa.com
No advertising or other promotional use can be made of the information in this release without the express prior written consent of J.D. Power and Associates. http://www.jdpower.com
# # #
For charts go to:
http://www.jdpower.com/auto/se...tID=1
And click on "2003 Initial Quality", press on charts for full size.
Summary:
1.Lexus
2.Cadillac
3.Infiniti
4.Acura
5.Buick
6.Mercury
7.Porsche
8.BMW
9.Toyota
10.Jaguar
11.Honda
12.Volvo
13.Chevy
14.Audi
15.MB
All above industry average
.
.
.
.
25.VW
.
34.MINI
.
37.Hummer(LAST)
05-06-2003, 08:55 PM
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2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
A saw this CNBC interview as well and here is my summary:
MB slips in new JD Powers Initial Quality Survey in the AVERAGE category.
In a just completed TV interview at CNBC, a JD Powers spokesman says that
Mercedes-Benz quality slipped, because of the introduction of the new E-Class, which has more
problems than the previous E-class,
and pulled the only "average quality" ratings for MB of the last couple years further down in this new survey.
Top 3 automakers:
LEXUS, CADILLAC, INFINITY
Worst 3:
HUMMER, LAND ROVER, KIA
PS:
The JD Powers spokesman also commented, that the new MURANO by INFINITY ranks very HIGH in INITIAL QUALITY.
MB slips in new JD Powers Initial Quality Survey in the AVERAGE category.
In a just completed TV interview at CNBC, a JD Powers spokesman says that
Mercedes-Benz quality slipped, because of the introduction of the new E-Class, which has more
problems than the previous E-class,
and pulled the only "average quality" ratings for MB of the last couple years further down in this new survey.
Top 3 automakers:
LEXUS, CADILLAC, INFINITY
Worst 3:
HUMMER, LAND ROVER, KIA
PS:
The JD Powers spokesman also commented, that the new MURANO by INFINITY ranks very HIGH in INITIAL QUALITY.
05-06-2003, 09:00 PM
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2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
Originally posted by nyca
i wonder what questions they ask, it sounds like it depends on how "finicky" the owners are.
i wonder what questions they ask, it sounds like it depends on how "finicky" the owners are.
LEXUS ranked tops in 5 years straight because the owners are too old to be "finicky"? :o
05-06-2003, 09:56 PM
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E500
My experience differs from the article in one respect. Where they mention that typically European manufacturers' cars built there score better than their models built in North America. My 03 E500 has had more problems in 5 months than my wife's 99 ML320 has had to date. We purchased it new. And those vehicles (98 & 99) were notorious for problems.
05-06-2003, 10:02 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RJC
[B]
[B]
Originally posted by Beltfed
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: May 6, 2003
Summary:
1.Lexus
2.Cadillac
3.Infiniti
4.Acura
5.Buick
6.Mercury
7.Porsche
8.BMW
9.Toyota
10.Jaguar
11.Honda
12.Volvo
13.Chevy
14.Audi
15.MB
It's so comforting to know Mercedes is ranked below Buick,Mercury and Chevy... 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: May 6, 2003
Summary:
1.Lexus
2.Cadillac
3.Infiniti
4.Acura
5.Buick
6.Mercury
7.Porsche
8.BMW
9.Toyota
10.Jaguar
11.Honda
12.Volvo
13.Chevy
14.Audi
15.MB
It's so comforting to know Mercedes is ranked below Buick,Mercury and Chevy...
Trending Topics
05-06-2003, 10:14 PM
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04' E500 w/Appear. PKG, Panorama Roof
Ok come on... You and I know that while some cars may be getting better ratings currently as MB has struggled with some "cutting"-edge" tech stuff.
We all know tha the competition is stiff from Lexus, BMW, but we did not buy the car because it was a total apple to apple comparision. BMW is a bit more sporty than we liked, but the Lexus was (LS430) seemed like a boat. We had a Lexus SC400 for 12 yrs and LOVED IT! But the MB has a special place in our hearts.
JD POwers rating is also skewed if you think of it... MB owners who have ANYTHING go wrong are PISSED!!! Chevy owners have gotten better quality, vehicles, but hey with 0% financing there a bunch of Chevy drivers that will NEVER see a MB.
And my $45,000 Chev Suburban, the bad boy it is supposed to be???? Totally died out on the road with 1500 miles on it no power no electrics.... nothing.... Some sort of main module failure.... And the U jopints clank like their old.....
Just my 02
We all know tha the competition is stiff from Lexus, BMW, but we did not buy the car because it was a total apple to apple comparision. BMW is a bit more sporty than we liked, but the Lexus was (LS430) seemed like a boat. We had a Lexus SC400 for 12 yrs and LOVED IT! But the MB has a special place in our hearts.
JD POwers rating is also skewed if you think of it... MB owners who have ANYTHING go wrong are PISSED!!! Chevy owners have gotten better quality, vehicles, but hey with 0% financing there a bunch of Chevy drivers that will NEVER see a MB.
And my $45,000 Chev Suburban, the bad boy it is supposed to be???? Totally died out on the road with 1500 miles on it no power no electrics.... nothing.... Some sort of main module failure.... And the U jopints clank like their old.....
Just my 02
05-06-2003, 10:26 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by marksatex
Ok come on... You and I know that while some cars may be getting better ratings currently as MB has struggled with some "cutting"-edge" tech stuff.
*Sadly none of the 7 problems I have are cutting edge stuff
But the MB has a special place in our hearts.
*This is very true for me but I'm beginning to wonder
JD POwers rating is also skewed if you think of it... MB owners who have ANYTHING go wrong are PISSED!!!
*The higher rated Porsche, Audi ,BMW and Jaguar etc. owners are just as finicky and get just as pissed trust me I've owned them.
And my $45,000 Chev Suburban, the bad boy it is supposed to be???? Totally died out on the road with 1500 miles on it no power no electrics.... nothing.... Some sort of main module failure.... And the U jopints clank like their old.....
*Sorry to hear about the problems with your Suburb, hope all is well now...want to trade it for a 03 silver CLK 500...LOL
Just my 02
Ok come on... You and I know that while some cars may be getting better ratings currently as MB has struggled with some "cutting"-edge" tech stuff.
*Sadly none of the 7 problems I have are cutting edge stuff
But the MB has a special place in our hearts.
*This is very true for me but I'm beginning to wonder
JD POwers rating is also skewed if you think of it... MB owners who have ANYTHING go wrong are PISSED!!!
*The higher rated Porsche, Audi ,BMW and Jaguar etc. owners are just as finicky and get just as pissed trust me I've owned them.
And my $45,000 Chev Suburban, the bad boy it is supposed to be???? Totally died out on the road with 1500 miles on it no power no electrics.... nothing.... Some sort of main module failure.... And the U jopints clank like their old.....
*Sorry to hear about the problems with your Suburb, hope all is well now...want to trade it for a 03 silver CLK 500...LOL
Just my 02
05-06-2003, 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by karl k
LEXUS ranked tops in 5 years straight because the owners are too old to be "finicky"? :o
LEXUS ranked tops in 5 years straight because the owners are too old to be "finicky"? :o
The only thing MB has over Lexus is performance. To many, this would be enough for them to choose a MB over a Lexus. But then, why stop there, most would consider BMW to have better performance than MB, so why not BMW?
I think it takes numoerous factors for one car to be chosen over another. IMO, Lexus certainly beats MB when it comes to price, value, luxury, customer service, and electronics.
Lexus is restyling the LS for 2004. I am strongly considering it.
OT: Man, this site is slow!
05-06-2003, 11:57 PM
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'06 ML500 w/Apperance pkg & '07 SL550 w/AMG pkg
The problem that I have with these awards is that they are "Initial Buyer Satisfaction". What I would like to know is how "satisfied" these same customers are 5 or 6 years down the road. I know people are going to say that my view does not count, as I work for the "MAN" and they are telling me what to say, but that is not the case. Those other manufactures have just as many problems as the MBZ or they would not have a service dept. or provide a warranty. Now, I understand that this point may not be very stable, but it is reality.
I believe it all boils down to something we all understand very clearly. Look at it this way, you buy a product and it is reliable and does what is suppose to without failure. You mention this product to a few people and tell them how much you like how it is working for you. Now, take that same product and have it not do what it is supposed to and you are telling everyone you know how much a piece of crap it is and keep telling people until they are tired of hearing it from you. The moral is, if a product does what it is suppose to it goes unnoticed, but if the slightest bit less than what we expect, watch out as we have to tell eveyone we know how SH*TTY that item is!! Just my $0.02!!
I believe it all boils down to something we all understand very clearly. Look at it this way, you buy a product and it is reliable and does what is suppose to without failure. You mention this product to a few people and tell them how much you like how it is working for you. Now, take that same product and have it not do what it is supposed to and you are telling everyone you know how much a piece of crap it is and keep telling people until they are tired of hearing it from you. The moral is, if a product does what it is suppose to it goes unnoticed, but if the slightest bit less than what we expect, watch out as we have to tell eveyone we know how SH*TTY that item is!! Just my $0.02!!
05-07-2003, 12:10 AM
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14 'E550
Originally posted by Baby Jocko
I think it takes numoerous factors for one car to be chosen over another. IMO, Lexus certainly beats MB when it comes to price, value, luxury, customer service, and electronics.
I think it takes numoerous factors for one car to be chosen over another. IMO, Lexus certainly beats MB when it comes to price, value, luxury, customer service, and electronics.
Value......that's debatable, the LS430 is not that cheap (the Ultra Luxury package car is about $70k). While still cheaper than an Sclass, I wouldn't exactly classify it as a value.
Customer Service.......I get treated well at MB, but Lexus does have great CS.
Electronics.......Absolutely disagree, MB is an innovator where Lexus (and most other Japanese makes) copy the Germans.
We'll see what Lexus does for 2004. Hopefully the car won't be a snooze mobile like the current LS430 is.
05-07-2003, 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by Beltfed
Electronics.......Absolutely disagree, MB is an innovator where Lexus (and most other Japanese makes) copy the Germans.
Electronics.......Absolutely disagree, MB is an innovator where Lexus (and most other Japanese makes) copy the Germans.
Either you are not familiar with the Lexus brand or you are not much of an electronics buff. Otherwise you would clearly see how Lexus has beaten MB badly when it comes to electronic inovation. Every electronic feature MB has, Lexus has either already done or don't care to do it.
Let's see...how many Siemans products can compete with Matshu****a, Sony, or JVC. I do have a Siemans phone system though!
We'll see what Lexus does for 2004. Hopefully the car won't be a snooze mobile like the current LS430 is.
05-07-2003, 01:00 AM
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14 'E550
Originally posted by Baby Jocko
[B]Either you are not familiar with the Lexus brand or you are not much of an electronics buff. Otherwise you would clearly see how Lexus has beaten MB badly when it comes to electronic inovation. Every electronic feature MB has, Lexus has either already done or don't care to do it.
[B]Either you are not familiar with the Lexus brand or you are not much of an electronics buff. Otherwise you would clearly see how Lexus has beaten MB badly when it comes to electronic inovation. Every electronic feature MB has, Lexus has either already done or don't care to do it.
Where has Lexus beaten Mercedes? What did they offer first that MB didn't. Enlighten me, because I'm having trouble coming up with anything Lexus actually offered first before MB.
I'm quite familiar with the Lexus brand, almost too familiar.
05-07-2003, 01:14 AM
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Originally posted by Beltfed
What did they offer first that MB didn't.
What did they offer first that MB didn't.
- Laser Cruise (Distronic)
- Parking assist (Parktronic)
- Rear view camera (No MB match yet)
- DVD naigation (MB late to the party)
- Rear entertainment (MB late to the party)
- Keyless Go (Lexus late to the party)
- Tele Aid (not rocket science - Lexus indifference?)
- Massaging seats
- Ventilated Seats
- Cornering Headlights (MB late to the party)
Last edited by Baby Jocko; 05-07-2003 at 11:11 AM.
05-07-2003, 02:01 AM
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To solve this agrument up with one simple thing:
Mercedes-Benz started it all. Without them, who knows if any other company would exist.
IMHO, German > *
Remember kiddies... "Life is too short and the road is too long to drive anything but a Mercedes-Benz"
Mercedes-Benz started it all. Without them, who knows if any other company would exist.
IMHO, German > *
Remember kiddies... "Life is too short and the road is too long to drive anything but a Mercedes-Benz"
05-07-2003, 04:27 AM
#18
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I do not think that automakers actually design electronics as navigation and another fancy stuff. Probably BMW is an innovator here with their iDrive. And other makers, like Audi just follows to BMW's initiative. MB has a lot electronics I think introduced first, like smart key, keyless go, braking system, diagnostics, engine and transmission control. Fiasco with navigation issued just bad connection with partners who actually did the navigation. I think MB should fire a person who made so obvious mistake and brought the maker in trouble. I hope that MB learned the lessons. I expect improving quality and planning, otherwise my next car won't be MB.
05-07-2003, 10:34 AM
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Dema-
From everything I have seen and heard, I wouldn't call BMW an innovator when it comes to the iDrive. The iDrive has been a total failure for BMW, a few of the 7 series have been involved in accidents due to iDrive. My guess, is that if BMW could go back in time and take iDrive out, it would. It has been a total failure for them.
Regime l Life-
I agree with you, although its not really an answer, MB did start it all.
In my opinion technology has gone too far in cars recently, all the companies are trying to outdo the other, but all the electronics are failing (or having problems) excpet for the Japanese, who just copy the Germans and test each product throughly. The Germans are getting beat at their own game.
Just my thoughts...
From everything I have seen and heard, I wouldn't call BMW an innovator when it comes to the iDrive. The iDrive has been a total failure for BMW, a few of the 7 series have been involved in accidents due to iDrive. My guess, is that if BMW could go back in time and take iDrive out, it would. It has been a total failure for them.
Regime l Life-
I agree with you, although its not really an answer, MB did start it all.
In my opinion technology has gone too far in cars recently, all the companies are trying to outdo the other, but all the electronics are failing (or having problems) excpet for the Japanese, who just copy the Germans and test each product throughly. The Germans are getting beat at their own game.
Just my thoughts...
05-07-2003, 11:40 AM
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I just rode in an Acura TSX yesterday... TOUCH screen DVD nav, WITH voice recognition for everything... radio... climate control... dvd... phone if you want it. This is not an expensive luxury car. Wake up and smell the sushi... Maybe the Germans ought to partner with Fujitsu, Mitsu, and Sony, rather than Bosch, Becker, and Harmon Kardon...
-NavNut
-NavNut
05-07-2003, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by NavNut
I just rode in an Acura TSX yesterday... TOUCH screen DVD nav, WITH voice recognition for everything... radio... climate control... dvd... phone if you want it. This is not an expensive luxury car. Wake up and smell the sushi... Maybe the Germans ought to partner with Fujitsu, Mitsu, and Sony, rather than Bosch, Becker, and Harmon Kardon...
-NavNut
I just rode in an Acura TSX yesterday... TOUCH screen DVD nav, WITH voice recognition for everything... radio... climate control... dvd... phone if you want it. This is not an expensive luxury car. Wake up and smell the sushi... Maybe the Germans ought to partner with Fujitsu, Mitsu, and Sony, rather than Bosch, Becker, and Harmon Kardon...
-NavNut
I just find it hard to spend so much money on such a small car. How is the rear seating? I think the new TL will do well, if the TSX is so well-equipped. It is the bigger sibling after all.
05-07-2003, 01:21 PM
#22
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I actually sat in the back seat also... I am not a small guy... I'm only 5' 10" tall, but I do weigh 230#... I was very comfortable in the back seat with the front seat adjusted for someone my size also. It was not at all cramped. It the TL has even more interior compartment space as opposed to just being larger on the outside, then it will be a phenomenally spacious car. Don't know about all that...
I do think the new TL is hideously ugly... but the TSX, although the clearly lesser sibling, and certainly lacking in luxury appointments like wood trim, I did think the styling was very nice, and it was amazing what you can get in a car for UNDER $30K... with nav, leather, voice recog... I'm not sure where you got $34... maybe after tax and title...
-NavNut
I do think the new TL is hideously ugly... but the TSX, although the clearly lesser sibling, and certainly lacking in luxury appointments like wood trim, I did think the styling was very nice, and it was amazing what you can get in a car for UNDER $30K... with nav, leather, voice recog... I'm not sure where you got $34... maybe after tax and title...
-NavNut
Last edited by NavNut; 05-07-2003 at 01:24 PM.
05-07-2003, 02:40 PM
#23
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Originally posted by monakh
I am curious NavNut, how much that TSX was--probably closer to 34K, I am sure.
I just find it hard to spend so much money on such a small car. How is the rear seating? I think the new TL will do well, if the TSX is so well-equipped. It is the bigger sibling after all.
I am curious NavNut, how much that TSX was--probably closer to 34K, I am sure.
I just find it hard to spend so much money on such a small car. How is the rear seating? I think the new TL will do well, if the TSX is so well-equipped. It is the bigger sibling after all.
No nav: $26,800
W/ nav: $28,800
If you are paying $34,000 for one, find a new dealer. The back seat in the TSX is marginal, in other words about like the C-class.
The JD Power Initial Quality Survey reports owner problems during the first ninety (90) days of ownership. The Long Term Reliability Survey and the IQS don't always jibe but often do. Lexus tops both lists and Mercedes continues to drop.
Saturn took a big hit this year. Honda and Toyota had tough product rollouts too, so Mercedes isn't alone in that respect.
05-07-2003, 09:23 PM
#24
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These cars offer tremendous value and excellent build quality for a great price...the only thing lacking is the panache.
05-07-2003, 10:28 PM
#25
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2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
Originally posted by NavNut
I just rode in an Acura TSX yesterday... TOUCH screen DVD nav, WITH voice recognition for everything... radio... climate control... dvd... phone if you want it. This is not an expensive luxury car. Wake up and smell the sushi... Maybe the Germans ought to partner with Fujitsu, Mitsu, and Sony, rather than Bosch, Becker, and Harmon Kardon...
-NavNut
I just rode in an Acura TSX yesterday... TOUCH screen DVD nav, WITH voice recognition for everything... radio... climate control... dvd... phone if you want it. This is not an expensive luxury car. Wake up and smell the sushi... Maybe the Germans ought to partner with Fujitsu, Mitsu, and Sony, rather than Bosch, Becker, and Harmon Kardon...
-NavNut
Daimler Chrysler has Strategic Prtnerships with:
Mitsubishi Fuso Truck and Bus
Corporation, Mitsubishi Motors
Corporation, Hyundai Motor
Company.
http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/index_e.htm
