I've been looking to purchase a new daily driver around $15k or so, and the W211 e-class is a car I really like. I was curious how you guys rate its reliability. For around 15k I believe I'm looking at 03-04's with between 60-90k miles from what I have researched so far. What do you guys think?

Thanks

 

Personally I would get a 05 e320,e350 or newer, the 03 and early 04 had the radiator problem with coolant mix in with transmission and cause major transmission problems. E500 had the airmatic which not only feel floaty but unreliable which will fail, usually air leaks in the air spring and struts. Oh almost forgot almost all models had the fuel sender issues. Good luck.

 

I think you've regret it....go 2005-06

 

Never heard of the "fuel sender" issue..What is it?

 

Question has been asked and asked and asked. Research the sight and then decide. You will hear passionate good and bad responses. Just know that these cars at that advanced mileage you are talking about may have some issues that you will have to deal with that may cause you much grief if you roll craps.

 

...and by "grief" he means loads of money. Those model years, at that kind of milage mean you had better be an MB Technician, married to an MB Technician, or wealthy.

 

I have champagne taste, and beer budget, but I love my 03. Going to kill my retirement check, but that's what it's for, right?

 

I am neither of the 3, so I purchased the extended warranty instead:

$3K for 3/36...Piece of mind and I have 18 months to go of the 36 total with $4,000.00 of covered repairs behind me...Well worth the money and I did not have to marry an MB techinican..Some of them guys can be pretty ugly...

 

Where did you get your warranty? I have an aftermarket one due to expire on my 04 E500 with about 84K on the clock. Looking for another one for about 3 years.

If it helps, I'll be out on my warranty. Unless something huge ($2K plus) occurs in the next few months, I'll have lost money on the warranty versus paying the repairs myself. You never know. You could get something incredibly reliable or a complete dud. The 03-04's aren't particularly reliable as a whole though.

 

It's really kind of sad that one can't comfortably keep a Mercedes because it's 6 years old and has over 70k miles on it anymore. It used to never be such a 'crap shoot' in the past. Those early Mercedes were made to last.

Mercedes is no longer Mercedes. They are only resting on their laurels. And that idea of the 'overbuilt' Mercedes will eventually completely fade. There are more choices and more competition these days. The marque has become a logo only. Sure the cars are great to drive.... when they are running. But they're like delicate divas that need constant pampering or they'll have a tantrum.

Last week my SA at the dealership was telling me they still have the same issues even with the new W212, and that many of the components are identical. He claims this "better quality with newer model years" is a myth that was spread to the consumer by Mercedes corporate.

 

Bought a 3 year EasyCare policy from the MB dealer.
It is called Total Care and is close to bumper to bumper.
At first I was told it did not include the air struts on the Airmatic system, but after a year or so both front struts were gone, I took the car back to the MB dealer and after much hoo and haa and this and that they covered it. The Dealer however wanted $345.00 cash for a 4-wheel alignment after they changed the struts but I refused to pay and instead got pretty vocal with the SA and he backed off.

The bill came to $4K with 2 struts and a heat exchanger valve.

Glad I got the warranty..Had about 72,000 when I bought it, 84,000 now.

 

Can any car made today be hassle-free? Lasting forever? In what way?

I think all cars and all marques are simply now too complex to last in the traditional way of say a W124 sedan or the earlier diesels. Those cars were venerable simpletons compared to today's electronic-laden cars. Apples and oranges.

I think the newer Mercedes have improved in many ways. The engines are still fantastic and essentially maintenance-free other than oil changes up to the first spark plug service at 140,000 Km. My E550 has aluminum hood, panels, trunk lid, etc. which will help on the rust front. Suspension components and cross members also aluminum. Brakes are improved. Interior seems very well made to me, especially compared to the W210, which had the infamous cracking dashboard and other issues (sliding steering stalk).

On the other hand, Mercedes - and many other marques - all have the challenge of little niggling issues arising from complexity and electronics. A hand-wind window will almost never break but it's a PITA. Electronic windows will fail. An air suspension is great for many things, but it will leak at some point.

I think it is the perceived unreliability of these relatively minor failings that scare people and lend to the 'these cars aren't built the way they used to be' theory.

When in fact many of them will drive flawlessly for tens of thousands of miles.

My E550 is just about to hit 80,000 Km and no major issues yet. In fact, the car performs so perfectly that when I actually do hear a noise or buzz I really take notice. Compared to some of my older and more 'reliable' Benzes, this car is like a silent phantom.

I really think the days of simple, bullet-proof, fix-it-yourself cars are over. Our cars do so much now that it is inevitable they will require more care in some ways. The upswing is that many of the critical functions have been improved to the point of almost never worrying about them. Ever had to replace a coil pack recently? Rotting brake line? Seized caliper? Clogged fuel filter? These are like the ghosts of Benzes past.

I'm not really arguing with you here, just offering a different perspective as I often ponder this exact issue.

 

p.s. I did, however, buy the ELW for my E550 at purchase.

 

It is not just an issue of reliability but cost. A 6 year old MB should be able to be maintained at a reasonable cost but that's not sometimes the case and this is what the person you responded to was saying -- and I agree with him.

I too bought the extended 7 year 100K warranty for my E550 but chances are slim I will keep the car after the warranty out of fear of the airmatic components having to be replaced, as I'd rather put that money towards a newer car.

You mentioned the engines are bullet proof --sadly not the case for mine E550 engine as it is affected by the counter balance shaft issue (a VERY expensive) repair out of warranty. These two issues are my biggest concerns for keeping the car past 7 years/100K miles.

 

Not that I would prefer to drive a Japanese car, but they tend to last longer and with a lot less repair. Yet they are "electronic laden cars."

All brands of new cars are now relatively maintenance free. Aluminum is used a lot primarily for weight reduction as electronics and passive safety devices have added a lot more weight.

The W210 was the beginning of cost cutting. Unfortunately the new W212 shows more cost cutting and Mercedes announced bin sharing with the C platform (for the first time in its history.) The MSRP reduction announced with the W212s has to come from somewhere and that somewhere isn't by reducing shareholders value, it's by reducing material and production costs.

Just because it's technologically "advanced" doesn't mean it has to fail. Electronic windows have been around for decades (the 1938 Buick was the first.) Air suspension has been around since the 1958 Cadillac Brougham.

I have many products that are cutting edge and they aren't failing.

So it's all made up? All the automotive media editorials and reviews that imply a Mercedes Benz is expensive to own and below average in reliability are incorrect? The depreciation and the TCO (total cost of ownership) is highest among the Mercedes models. I wonder how the "scaring" started? Is there no reality to any of it?

Many of the them will drive flawlessly for tens of thousands of miles. Arguably, many of the older ones will drive flawlessly for hundreds of thousands of miles.

And yes, as I mentioned already, they are great cars to drive.....when running. An older chassis will take on noise no matter the make. An old RR creaks more than a new one. And I will say that a Mercedes will still run smoothly when it's aged, over many other brands. Of course, that's after dumping in inordinate amounts of money to keep it running.

But wait, you said earlier that they require less care now.

The body of Benz present has given us new 'critical functions' to worry about. And with exorbitant prices to repair. A clogged fuel filter costs $100. The poorly designed (and repeating) failure of a fuel sending and pump unit costs $1500.

I'm not arguing either. And I'm being a bit facetious. However, I don't give in to excuses. There are no excuses to make a car so fickle and expensive to own. And I often ponder why some makers can build products that do last while others cannot.

 

So why did you buy the E550?

 

Lol, you are the multi-quote-master.

Well, we are both being a bit facetious and I can't respond to all those quotes, not now anyway. However, I'll try to sum up -

- Japanese cars - at least those on par with Mercedes in terms of technology, are not as bulletproof as the rumors go IMO. Like all rumors, there is truth but it is often exaggerated. Same with Mercedes being expensive to maintain all the time, cost-cutting, not what they used to be, etc.

- look at a W210 and compare it to a late W211 or W212. There is no contest there in terms of quality. It's tangible everywhere. Cost point of the cars new, with inflation, etc. is similar.

- even older MB's had issues. The W124. Bulletproof they say fondly, eyes glazing over with memories of those halcyon days of yore. Then remind them of the AC evaporator issue and the 14-hr repair job to replace it. Those posts of the dash ripped off and wires everywhere still haunt my sleep. Engine wiring harness anyone?

- Consumer Reports, apparently THE source for consumer-based reliability feedback and reporting has given the 2010/11 E-class excellent reliability ratings. It also cites the '08 E-class as an excellent used choice buy. I don't give a huge amount of credence to this publication, instead relying on my own experience and research. But there you go. Apparently they are seeing the improvements and increased reliability or they're on the MB Kool-Aid/payroll/buyoff scheme as well.

 

I said 'in some ways'.

By that I meant a shift in what will require maintenance. Engines? Not so much. Body and rust? Not as much, big improvements there. Electronic modules and software updates? Yes. Niggling little issues like the rear sunshade not retracting fully? Probably. Airmatic having a leak? Check. That funky 6-CD changer panel coming out of the dash all James Bond-like? Love it, but doomed to fail. If my kids don't break it before it fails on its own, I'll give it another couple of years max. Those little buttons on the door handles to lock the car? Already had one go.

 

I don't give CR much credence either. But what I do give credence to is an owner's experience with the car. Type in "Mercedes reliability" in Google and you can have a field day. In fact, I'm sometimes tempted to write a book on worldwide comments and jokes about Mercedes reliability.

Look at True Delta's survey which allows for written qualitative responses of issues that owners face with these cars.

Bottom line is these cars could be built to last longer and cost less to maintain. There's really no excuse why they cannot. Sure, all brands have issues. But statistically speaking, MB has not had a good track record.

My initial post was "it's sad" that people have to be nervous and ask about owning a car that's only a few years old and with relatively low mileage. Unlike the MBs of yesteryear where getting a high mileage badge to put on the grille was an attainable mission. Now it's all about "what warranty should I buy."

And as WBSRFR already pointed out, the repair costs can easily go beyond the actual resale value of the car. The TCO of a current Mercedes is extraordinarily high (and especially factoring in its massive depreciation --- a depreciation that comes in part because of its notoriety of being not exactly reliable.) On top of that he's saddled with the burden of a car that has a known design defect. And you asked him "why did he buy a 550." Why not? Isn't Mercedes supposedly a brand you can trust for longevity and build quality? Unfortunately he learned this after the fact, when Daimler finally decided to 'fess up' on the issue.

And comparing them to other brands and saying that other brands have issues too, doesn't let MB off the hook. The "too many electronics" excuse doesn't hold much water. A rotten apple is still a rotten apple even if there are others in the bunch.

Anyway I'm being pretty mild mannered about this compared to the MBCA members. Go check out their forums. You'd think that any Mercedes built in the past decade or two was the handiwork of the devil himself.

 

Lol, that I fully believe. I'm somewhat old school myself, but resigned to the fact that a Mercedes will always push the boundaries of technology - and with that comes the inevitable headaches - and costs.

Here's a case in point, the air suspension. I got this brochure from this site I think. It's regarding the SAS (Semi-Active Air Suspension) system. The W211 system has enhancements over the previous gen AirMatic.

I'd recommend this as reading for anyone interested. It's incredible how technical and complex this system is, and everything it does behind the scenes. You aren't going to find something like this on a Japanese car. It gives perspective as to the amount of engineering this car has, and how much has gone into making it.

From there, it's not hard to see how making something so intricate completely bulletproof as well is not an easy task.

Cheers.

p.s. I think you'll like the last slide.

 

Excuse me, I am sorry, but are you trying to make some kind of a point with your statement there Mr. Benz Boy?

I bought my E550 because I liked how it drove and looked. Period. If I am to imply your logic in questioning my decision, expecting a well engineered car that is reliable and offers longevity is too much to ask when you pay the highest for a vehicle in its market segment?

Maybe some are happy to look at their three pointed star and it makes them feel good and that's what they pay for but I don't get people (fanboys?) who make up excuses for unreliable workmanship and engineering.

You are kind of acting like Mercedes is one of your children and someone insulted your child. It is just a car. And as a car, someone who buys it can have a reasonable expectation of reliability and longevity. This was precsiely 220S's point and I agree with him completely.

The day MB goes back to designing well engineered cars that can be driven for hundreds of thousands of miles, we will all benefit (MB included). As it stands right now I will mostly likely replace my E550 when it hits around 100K miles as I would pay money for depreciation on a newer car than huge expenses to maintain an older car as they both go against the total cost of ownership and if I am going to pay thousands in maintenance each year I'd rather put that towards the depreciation of a newer car and enjoy driving a newer car. If this keeps up and the E class becomes more or less disposable cars after 100K miles/7 years, it is going to obliterate the resale values of these cars and we will all pay for that.

I believe this is what 220S was trying to explain.

 

fwiw, I even have a pdf of a newer version of that bulletin. Whenever people complain that their airmatic has failed once again, I send the pdf and tell them to look at it.

Still, we send people into space with more sophisticated technology and all is well. There's no excuse for airmatic to fail as much as it does. Just because something is complex doesn't give it a free pass.

p.s., if you got that from this forum, it probably originated from me. I have lots of these bulletins covering most of the MB systems (like keyless go, etc..)

 

Glad I asked this on the forum... although rather disheartening to read.

Thanks for the responses

 

My experience from owning a W211 for a few years-

I think when anyone purchases an MB, they have high expectations - and they should - these cars are not cheap when new and have a reputation of being reliable/dependable/safe. The things that is killing the reputation of the cars in my opinion are the small things that happen to them. Rarely do I read where there W211 has left someone stranded. Occasionally you do get an expensive problem occur (as mentioned with the faulty radiator, airmatic, balancer shaft, etc.) however the majority of these complaints and frustrations build upon small things. Radio not working as expected. Blubs blowing. Power headrest not working. Navigation giving an error, etc.

In 2003, Mercedes attempted to introduce the W211 with a bang and offered many first-available options on the car. If you got a panoramic roof, you could get a solar panel option to run the HVAC fan while the car was parked to cool the interior and keep fresh air flowing. I think the solar panel option was scrapped in 2004. Keyless-Go was introduced. SBC and Distronic were introduced in the E-Class. It took a book just to explain the instrument cluster menus, and they could be confusing. Starting in 2006/2007, Mercedes removed many of the features/gadgets about the same time the reliability went up. Also, many software updates for the COMAND system and other modules in the car were finally perfected and were available for the older 2003-2006 cars. My car is a heavily optioned car for an E320 CDI, and I can tell you the issues I have had with my car almost 100% come from the additional features -

Keyless-Go button replaced on shifter
Door handle for Keyless-Go replaced
iPod integration kit upgraded
COMAND/AGW updates
Cellphone antenna updated/replaced
TPMS sensors replaced
Trunk closer harness replaced
Xenon bulb replaced

All of these items were warranty items except for the Xenon bulb. If I had to pay out of pocket for these items it would get very expensive fast. However the car has never left me on the side of the road and has never acted like it would. I have virtually never had any drivability issues. I personally enjoy the additional features/options my car has, but I would be the first to admit that if the car were a stripped car with no options, it would have almost only had oil changes when at the dealer.

With all these little things requiring an appointment with the dealer to get addressed, peoples frustrations build (and for good reason) however I don't think MB makes junk - their cars are a pleasure to drive and that's why owners put up with their little quirks. I think the benefits outweigh the frustrations, but others may disagree. The RWD platform, the ride and safety features of the car are worth a great deal to me and I expect to always have an MB if I have the means to purchase one.

If you have a Corvette now and appreciate the V8/RWD feel of a car, I think you would enjoy an E500/E550. I had a C4 ZR-1 when they were new and had to put up with a few quirks with that car, but the rest of the experience made it well worth it.

I would just recommend that you do your research before you buy and get the car checked out. If you are looking at an E500, research the radiator issue. If you find a car of interest, make sure that radiator has been replaced. Have a mechanic look at the Airmatic. While the 2003/2004 models do have a reputation from some as being trouble-prone, as others have said, some have 100k of virtually trouble-free mileage from them. If you haven't test drove one, I would recommend you do so. They are a pleasure to drive.

 

I told you there would be some passionate responses good and bad and you are getting your monies worth on your internet subscription this month. Glad you came back