KBiggZ

YO!

2007 E350 4M, 75000 miles.

Showing ABS/ESP inoperable - wont go away. Have Indy appt on Tuesday but wanted to run the saga by you for any suggestions:

+ I had the dealer replace the pads and rotors at 65000, July of 2012
+ In Dec of 2012 I noticed a clunk under my feet on hard brake - not all the time, not easily reproducible.
+ In March of 2013 the ABS/ESP inoperable message would come on, with the associated effects - turning it off and on eliminated. Still having the clunk on hard brake so I took it to dealer.
+ Dealer replaced drivers side front caliper saying the piston failed, trashing my pads and rotor. All replaced.
+ April 2013 heard clicking on full right hand turn.
+ Now having ABs/ESP situation returning, can't get it to go away
+ On startup, there is a whistle coming from the brake when applied which goes away in 15 seconds or so.

I hate the dealer and am out of warranty. They lied repeatedly during the March service, and I no longer trust them. Could the problems I still have be related to the work they've done, or could the problems have never been fixed?

Any advice on how to troubleshoot before going to Indy on Tuesday to minimize my $$$$$ outlay?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

KB

Plutoe

The only way to find the fault is with DAS Xentry diagnostic software or equal. Have him do a quick test and don't authorize any work until you review a copy of that quick test.

BlackOmega

[quote=KBiggZ;5612178]YO!
[quote]
YOOOOOOOOO!
How many miles on the car then? Most dealers and repair shops warranty their work for at least 12mo./12k miles.
Did you feel the clunk too? If so, was it in the pedal or on the floorboard?

The computer runs a self check typically on start up. So it's not surprising that it would turn off after restart.

Pistons in brakes don't fail unless it's some cheap composite crap, even then, it's VERY rare to have one actually crack.
I also find it rather difficult to believe that a 6 year old car would have a seized piston. While it's not unheard of, it's rather unlikely. Typically the slides in the caliper get stuck, from lack of lube due to improper service. And when they get stuck, they'll cause one of the pads to ride on the rotor constantly. That will cause a lot of heat and can wear out the pads and rotor VERY quickly.
From where exactly? (try to be as specific as you can i.e speed, terrain, is it a solitary click or a series of clicks. etc.

It's starting to sound like you need to find yourself a good honest local mechanic that knows about MB's.
I loathe and detest my local dealer. I swear, they broke my car last time it was in. Wasn't leaking trans fluid before I took it in, after, it started leaving larger and larger drops. Not to mention, they went and ragged on my car. Out of a 320 mile tankful, they dropped my average MPG from 21.3 to 17.8 in a matter of 5 miles.

Where from exactly? Like from under the dash? Does it sound like an actual whistle or rushing air?

The answer is yes. They definitely could have serviced improperly. This becomes especially apparent when it gets colder out.

It's fairly tough to troubleshoot ABS issues without a scan tool. However, basic brake system knowledge can take care of most issues with ABS.


Here's an easy check to see if the components are working properly.

First loosen the lugnuts SLIGHTLY on the front wheels. Raise the front end and support with jack stands.

remove front wheels.

Find your front caliper. The center of it (usually) there is an opening to where you can see the inboard pad and the rotor. Take a flat head screwdriver, coming in at about a 45* angle in to the opening. Stick it either in the slot in the rotor about a 1/2" or so, and pry away from the car. This will compress the piston back into the caliper. After it's compressed, grab the caliper and slide it side to side (from the left side of the car to the right). The whole caliper should slide relatively easily. It should take a little effort, but not a great deal. If you can't move it at all, then the slides are lacking brake grease (note, brake grease IS NOT the same as other greases, it's specific for brakes, usually silicone lubricant).

More often than not, when you apply the brake and you hear a click or a pop coming from the wheel, the slides are binding and not allowing the caliper to move. Once you overcome the force holding them, they'll release and the pad will slap against the rotors. Typically the pop is when the caliper releases.

That's the first thing I would check. The next thing I would check is condition of the ABS sensor wires. Look for any obvious tears, cracks, exposed wires. It's usually a black cable that goes along to the back side/middle of the rotor.

Follow the wire down to the actual sensor and look for metal shavings or piled up rust on the wheel speed (ABS) sensor or the reluctor ring

(the green arrow is pointing to the reluctor ring, the ABS sensor is about 11 o'clock in the picture)



Look for rust on the reluctor ring, or rust/ metal shavings stuck to the wheel speed sensor (it's magnetic). remove any loose rust/ metal shavings.

If there are metal shavings present, there are other issues. However, rust can pile up there and make it difficult for the sensor to read the impulses from the reluctor ring.

Hope that helps.

KBiggZ

Thanks for all the thoughts here - here's what I learned today:


+ I took it to a respected INDY, who put it on the scan tool, and saw codes of 4428 and 4431. They had no info on those codes, nor could I find anything on the NET about those codes. He charged me $0 and said to go to the dealer to get a diagnosis and come back. He offered to troubleshoot it, but said it'd be way faster and cheaper to get that from the dealer.

+ I took it to the dealer, and they came back with a faulty wheel speed sensor (left front) which they said was producing zero data. $50 charge for diagnosis. $350 estimate. I asked why they were confident - the said the sensor was throwing no data, and the car was throwing no other codes which would show something else might be wrong.

+ Back to Indy who quoted $217 for the job. Ordered part and will let you know on Tuesday how it works out. They will check the wiring before putting on the sensor to determine if the sensor is even needed.

Does this make sense or do I have happy ears on?

+ I went back to the Indy, and talked with the tech

Plutoe

That sensor takes about an hour at most to change out----------so I guess you will pay for his front end diagnostics, that he coulden't understand, at the back end.

Then the issue will be where do you go to get the fault cleared!!! Makes sense to me.

KBiggZ

The indy can clear faults - they just didn't know anything about the specific codes. I'll let you all know how it goes.

After driving without ESP for two weeks - this MAY end up being the best $200 ever on a car repair. I miss my buttery couch ride!

BlackOmega

There are manufacturer specific codes that cannot be read even with the best aftermarket scan tools. I happen to work at a dealer so I'm very familiar with this.