JP500

I was reading on Wikipedia that the M155 is a "special version" of the M113 family, and the M155 is used in the SLR McLaren. I don't want to ask a stupid question, but if its the same "family" what does that mean really? Aside from having more liters than lets say the 4966 M113 and different bore and stroke and aside from the supercharger, what keeps the two in the same family? and what keeps them so different in power output? Just pondering of the beauty of the M113 and just Mercedes Benz in general and I don't know, like I said im just curious of what the similarities actually are and would appreciate any help and information from you fellow smart Mercedes benz owners ... and if this is off topic for this forum to some of you folks, apologies in advanced but I never saw this question on the forum anywhere so lets crack the topic.

JP500

:/ no one? I thought somebody would lay out all the things but I guess it might be a dumb question comparing the M113 to an M155. Just something I pondered on.

AMGAffalterbach

No absolutely not it is a completely valid question regarding what "family" means with these engines. I just did some additional reading myself, and I'm not 100% sure either but I think they use the same block design (obviously with different bore and stroke) with different internals. Both are three valve per cylinder designs, but one major difference besides displacement is that the SLR is supercharged. With forced induction you will have higher output and torque across the power band whereas the E500 is naturally aspirated, but all of the extra power comes not only from the supercharger, larger displacement, and different internals but also a different compression ratio (8.8:1) running 13psi of boost. When you change the compression ratio of a forced induction engine (usually meaning different pistons and bore) then you can screw a lot more power out of the same amount of boost you ran previously. Furthermore, you then have to consider the upgraded AMG headers and supporting components (camshafts being another example) for the supercharger that allow for comparatively high output. Believe it or not the M273 in my E550 is capable of almost 500hp with a Kleeman Supercharger at only .7 bar so it's not too far off.

Just my thoughts, I could be missing something important but I believe that's what it means. It works off of the same fundamental block layout and design but with different internals, forced induction, headers, cams, compression ratio etc. I know you are probably well versed in how this all works but it helps me to lay it out too in writing to fathom what the difference is, don't mean to insult your likely more adept knowledge on these engines and forced induction

EDIT: I believe the M113 compression ratio is at 10.5:1 from factory, and 8.8:1 is much friendlier for supercharging as with any forced induction you lean up the fuel to air mixture quite a bit as well, another point to consider.

JP500

@AMGAffalterbach, I figured sooner or later you would give me a well put explanation, lol. That makes a lot of sense, I looked into Kleemann as well for the M113's and with their supercharger alone it adds 150 bhp which is amazing, what forced induction can actually do. I was considering keeping my baby for the real long run since I only have 70k miles on it, and then around 100k to go full with all the Kleemann upgrades and just ride the car out until the block blows. But I don't know if its worth it, many of my personal friends tell me not to waste the money, but I don't want another benz as of now, id rather beef up my current one with Kleemann upgrades and just stick with that since I am attached to my w211. What do you think? stupid idea? If I did do the supercharger, headers, camshafts, ecu, what ever else necessary, do you think its wise or dumb? thanks for doing the research by the way you answered whatever I had unanswered so, perfect response... Now just pondering upon the Kleemann possibilities

JP500

....and there was no insult man, your very detailed and precise with you explanations and its always appreciated. You can really learn a lot through these forums and its that much better with helpful members like yourself.

AMGAffalterbach

Thanks buddy it means a lot! I'm in California for a few more days so my responses are expected to be fairly slow. Anyway, you are a bit like myself in that I seem to post a lot of hypothetical and curiosity questions on here that usually don't get as much attention from a wide range of members, but are fascinating and information-rich nonetheless.

To answer your question Kleemann is a very good option (yet extremely expensive in most cases) for modding your M113 engine, if you have the cash they will most definitely be smiling every time you put your foot down. I actually asked about this in my recent thread and Kompression gave me good feedback:

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...fications.html

To summarize, you can probably save more money and gain more horsepower by buying a newer W211 quite easily (E55, E550, E63). I choose not to for a few reasons: I love my E550 and I am attached, I am lucky to own a German car with great mechanical health, and it isn't unique or special just to go ahead and upgrade to a model that thousands upon thousands of other owners drive. A Kleemann Supercharger staged build is something special and unique that may cost more money you won't get back in the long run, but will be a worthwhile mod in countless respects. If you go with a Supercharger and have more money after that (look at getting used parts too) you won't be able to screw out the possible horsepower without proper supporting mods. So consider your options carefully but I have a feeling it might be worth a shot .


EDIT: Also, in considering reliability tuning companies of high-end cars like Renntech, Kleemann, Brabus, etc rarely sacrifice reliability when it comes to modifying your car, and tuning nuances (little things wrong with the car after the mod that make it less comfortable as a daily driver) are few and far between so in that respect it is definitely not dumb. They stand behind their products too.

JP500

Exactly what you said, it would be cheaper to just upgrade to another w211, but I am attached to mine as well and I bought it from an old man who kept it in great mechanical health and it only had 17k miles on it when I got it, so I figured this would make it stand out, it would be unique, and not something that thousands and thousands of other people drive. I'm going to read and research more who out of all of the tuning companies offer the best upgrades for the best price and so on... thanks again man, have fun in California