Benzdom

I'm currently looking at an E320 with 170 000 miles, which is priced at $7000. I think it does not have airmatic (but I have to check).

I wonder if it would be a good idea to buy a 2003 model with that high mileage.

I heard about the SBC pump issue with its actuation limit (which could be reached any day now on a car at this mileage), which would result in a crazy expensive repair.

I have heard different opinions on the w211, ranging from very reliable to very expensive to maintain.

Your input is much appreciated!

starbrite

2003 MY was the first, so logically it was the least reliable.

With that high mileage many things are going to start failing. Buy a newer year (if budget allows) and FAR LESS mileage.

homeofstone

Check Consumer Reports, MSN autos, Edmonds.com.

Benzdom

I checked Consumer Reports. 2003 seems to have been the best year up to 2008.

But these Consumer Reports surveys are for new and low mileage cars, and this doesn't apply to 150 000 mile plus cars.

Benzdom

Thanks. With older models like the 124 and the 210 high mileage wasn't exactly an issue - as long as the car was well maintained.

So this is no longer the case with the w211?

djmallya

Mine, has 192k and is still going strong.

06E5004ME

^ is what people who participate in misleading reliability surveys think.

Anyone who knows anything about owning a car will tell you that old low mileage cars require the same if not more maintenance as they are not driven. One of the worst things you can do to your car is not drive it. Seals, fluids, hoses start degrading with age and will need to be replaced just as the high mileage cars.

If you are thinking of buying a 211, then do the research on each car you are looking at. I find that these cars tend to stay with only a few owners. A good amount of them are 1 owner cars. People who buy these cars usually can afford to maintain them, so generally high mileage cars had most of the issues taken care of either under warranty or during their ownership. At 100k miles, Airmatic components are likely to have been replaced at least once. Control arms, bushings, ball joints are most probably new as well.

I have 150k miles on mine and it is by far the most reliable car I've owned (had 2 Audis and 1 BMW before). Engine and transmission are extremely solid as they are designed and built by MB and not outsourced like on other German cars. Other areas are just maintenance related and a well-maintained car is a reliable car. This goes for any car out there.

With that said, I do agree with first MY being less "reliable". You look at all 1st gen E6X BMWs, B6 or C6 Audis, they all had problems that were ironed out couple years down the road. So, if anything, look for a newer 211 with more miles not the other way around.

Benzdom

Thank you. This is very helpful!

I have heard it quite often that higher mileage is not a problem with a Mercedes, as long as it had a good owner who took care of things.

Barry45RPM

Even on a well taken care of Benz everything you will need to do is a lot more expensive on a Benz than on any domestic or Japanese car.

German cars in general have expensive parts and mechanics' hourly rates. If "affording the routine repairs from time to time" is anticipated to be a stretch for you, forego the percieved image of driving a Benz and get something more comfortable for the pocket until you can get a more recent model year... maybe one with an extended warranty so you will drive worry free, and really enjoy the experience. At your car's high milage you can bet that you will be in the shop more than you want to. Its not really IF, but WHEN on any component in your car.

Even routine maintenance and parts prices are tough to swallow... I love my '07 E550, but I look at my friends who spend far less maintaining their cars a little wistfully.

starbrite

No, it's what people learn who have been on this forum 5 years longer than you.

homeofstone

Totally agree. You have to pay to play.

Benzdom

I have the impression that when some people say Mercedes maintenance is expensive, and others say, it's not that expensive, they are talking about the same numbers and it depends on the person.

I had a 123 before, and went for an oil change every 2500 miles and paid close to 80$ at an independent mechanic.

A 210 or 211 oil change would be about 230$ I suppose, but only every 10 000 miles. Then there are the smaller services which I inquired (and forgot the actual numbers because I thought them reasonable).

For someone who'd like a 40$ oil change - he should own a Toyota.

The one thing that makes a difference to me is repair cost.

The w211, for example, has the high performance hydraulic brake system, and the pump for it needs replacement after a certain number of brake pedal pushes. And this IS very expensive.

I'd also avoid an airmatic car, as it causes - so I heard - regular and expensive repairs.

So, in regards to maintenance, I don't think the cost is so high (even though it may be double or more than for a Toyota or Ford). It's worth it to me to drive a car I like.

The key question for me is repair cost - and for this I started this thread.

It's OK to pay a few hundred in regular intervals to keep a car going. But 2000 - 3000$ a year in repair cost would be a strain. A $3000 SBC pump repair I would consider as awful.

My old 123 cost about $500-$700 a year in repairs, which I consider to be a low repair budget. It was in the shop once a year. I'd consider a $1000 repair budget a year as acceptable (even though it would be great if it didn't happen every year, of course. Even on my worn 123 I had years where I had no repairs, just oil changes and brakes).

06E5004ME

I don't see how you being a member on this board longer than me makes your knowledge of these cars superior to mine, but whatever. You're right. OP, do NOT touch a 211 with high miles even with a 10 foot pole. Find yourself a low mileage 2003 that has been parked for 2-4 years and thank people who have been a part of this forum for 5 years longer than me for their "wisdom". <- Sarcasm.

I worked on all of my cars with my own hands and had a high mileage 211 for over 2 years now and 20k+ miles. After 70-100k miles is when you can actually start judging how "reliable" a car is.

All I am saying is that an 03 320 making it to 170k miles is a statement of reliability in itself. I don't know this but from what I understood is that an SBC pump on the car that OP is inquiring about is original. If you think that one SBC pump every 100k+ miles is unreliable, then I'd agree with you, but you'd spend more on tires in that time frame and when you look at it, SBC is an amazing system and has various advantages over the cars without it. Besides, if your car is prone to SBC failures, you are covered under 150k mile warranty from MB. Again, I don't know about you, but I can afford that once every decade or so.

06E5004ME

Benzdom, I do not see why your mechanic would charge you more for a 211 oil change. It's the same as any other car: drain oil, replace filter, fill it up. There is nothing special or difficult about that. Mobil1 0W-40 can be bought at Walmart for ~$25/5qts. Filter is another $15 (FROM THE DEALER). For $230, he better vacuum and detail the car too.

SBC pump should not run you $3k. The pump itself is ~$1200 brand new from MB dealer. No way it takes ~20 hours to replace it. I was actually looking into it and the procedure seems to be fairly straight forward and would probably take me 6hrs max. to replace it.

As for Airmatic, Arnott makes front and rear shocks/air springs. Front ones run at something like $450/each and rear air bags are ~$700 for 2. Do these components cost more than regular quality shocks/springs? Somewhat more. Do they go "regularly"? If you consider 50k-75k miles as regular, then yes. Oh, and Arnott offers lifetime warranty on these.

starbrite

Never said that. You made the statement that " ^ is what people who participate in misleading reliability surveys think."

What makes you think that I participate in misleading reliability surveys?

My comment to the op is based on many posts in this forum regarding the '03 w211. Nothing said about superior knowledge. Just many more years of READING posts on this forum. The end.

Benzdom

Thanks, 06. In regards to the SBC, once every ten years isn't bad, of course. But if you buy a ten year old car, and two months later you have a $2000 repair - that's what I meant.

Thanks for the other updates. I really like the w211. The seats and the cabin are great, and it has a beautiful ride.

In regards to the oil change price at my mechanic: it may be the price for a service, which includes the oil change, but is not limited to it.

06E5004ME

I was talking about the second part of your statement of buying a w211 with less miles as I agree with your first part of 03 MY having issues.

The reason I said that is that it is very subjective do judge a car's reliability. The common "less miles, the better" is misleading to say the least as the age is just as if not more important when talking about possible issues that may arise during the ownership of used car.

What I find is that an average person thinks that German cars are unreliable and expensive to own. When a friend of mine tells me, "But you have Airmatic and SBC which are a nightmare", I ask him how long do these systems last on average. You can do some digging around and you will find that most SBC failures are covered under the recall/150k mile warranty. Airmatic components last on average between 50-75k miles which is comparable to the lifespan of the regular coil spring set up. Do Airmatic components cost more? Yes, but it says nothing about the system's reliability.

In all, well maintained 05+ W211 with 100k+ miles beats owning low mileage 03-04 every day in my book.

Benzdom

One probably has to check the engine of a possible car in regards to the balancing shaft problem. Not sure if the e320 engines were at all affected.

One interesting thing is the Consumer Reports Used Car review, where the 03 model year looks better than the 04 and 05 model year. I don't know why this is. I really trust you guys with your experience.

Generally I found that w211 have very high asking prices on Los Angeles craigslist, usually about 30% above Blue Book value for private parties (I only look at private parties).

06E5004ME

I do not know anything about the balance shafts being a problem on older V8s or older V6s. Must've been the 350/550 issue.

Craftysince86

some guy on the "how many miles does you w211 have?" has a 03 e320 with like 300k

mines at like 110k right now with no serious problems *knock on wood*

Benzdom

I checked around, there was a shifty looking 2005 model with 190 000 miles. Why shifty? Because the license plate came out with no result on Carfax, and was probably photoshopped in the image.

And then I am going to see a 113 000 miles 2003 for 7500$, price reduced because it had an accident five years ago (not a salvage title, front end damage was fixed at Mercedes service center). Checking Carfax on that one.

What do you guys think. I read the recommendation for a 2004 or 2005 model, but I can only buy what is in my budget and the market offers.

PortAxePlayer1

As a rule of thumb buy the newest Model year you can afford. If that's an MY03 then try having a look of what repairs it has been subject to.

These cars can suffer electrical gremlins that will make you want to kick the car. Thing is, make sure you don't get a lemon.

Also, mileage is not an issue, if it feels and runs great then mileage becomes irrelavant if you are aware of the stuff that might need replacing down the line.

Benzdom

Thanks PorteAxePlayer1.

The car has a very detailed maintenance history until 2011, when the lien was paid off. It had been maintained at a dealership, oil changes/maintenance every 6500 miles. SBC pump (hydraulic unit) replaced 2010.

I will look out for electrical problems and definitely will do a pre-purchase inspection where they will take a look at the front end (where the accident was) to see if everything is still good there.

PortAxePlayer1

You're Welcome!

Would you mind giving us the VIN of the car? I'll get you the datacard of the vehicle. That'll help you make sure the car is stock and has all the options and features it had back when it rolled out of the factory.

Benzdom

Thanks! I sent you a PM.