Sat radio....
11-24-2003, 09:33 AM
#26
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03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by Rob Hephner
Maybe check the facts a little folks.
Sirius has money in the bank and is not in debt.
Maybe check the facts a little folks.
Sirius has money in the bank and is not in debt.
http://www.zacks.com/research/report...ype=qbs&t=SIRI
http://www.zacks.com/research/report...ype=qbs&t=XMSR
Quote: MB takes a lot of time to select the parts all the way down to the right type of botls and nuts, why would you think that they would stop here?
Wow! MB selects the right type of nuts and bolts! Did you notice MB had to replace around 10,000 cars this summer!!!! or did you recently emerge from a coma?
On this forum alone using the search term 'problems' there are over 450 threads most of which detail MB complaints.
https://mbworld.org/forums/search.ph...enumber=1:eek:
Last edited by drb; 11-24-2003 at 10:03 AM.
11-24-2003, 05:45 PM
#27
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I guess I missed the replacement of 10,000 cars! Are you sure about that number?
People come to the web to *****, so counting threads is pointless.
The Nav system problem was the fields inability to troubleshoot the problem, not a vendor or manufacturer problem... Same equipment a year later, and gee no problems... If you want to complain about MB service centers that is a different topic, and I would be on your side of the opinion.
And how about that value to the shareholder? Would you be telling customers to buy XM right now?
People come to the web to *****, so counting threads is pointless.
The Nav system problem was the fields inability to troubleshoot the problem, not a vendor or manufacturer problem... Same equipment a year later, and gee no problems... If you want to complain about MB service centers that is a different topic, and I would be on your side of the opinion.
And how about that value to the shareholder? Would you be telling customers to buy XM right now?
11-24-2003, 06:40 PM
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03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by Rob Hephner
I guess I missed the replacement of 10,000 cars! Are you sure about that number?
People come to the web to *****, so counting threads is pointless.
The Nav system problem was the fields inability to troubleshoot the problem, not a vendor or manufacturer problem... Same equipment a year later, and gee no problems... If you want to complain about MB service centers that is a different topic, and I would be on your side of the opinion.
And how about that value to the shareholder? Would you be telling customers to buy XM right now?
I guess I missed the replacement of 10,000 cars! Are you sure about that number?
People come to the web to *****, so counting threads is pointless.
The Nav system problem was the fields inability to troubleshoot the problem, not a vendor or manufacturer problem... Same equipment a year later, and gee no problems... If you want to complain about MB service centers that is a different topic, and I would be on your side of the opinion.
And how about that value to the shareholder? Would you be telling customers to buy XM right now?
I gave you the count of the problem threads based on the ***** you point out. Of course, you miss the whole point, being there are lots of complaints about MB quality, and I pointed this out as a counter to your observation that MB spends lots of time deciding on nuts and bolts.
Indeed, anyone who has closely watched the navi situation knows full well that it was a vendor problem. Check the threads, and you will enlightened.
AGAIN, I'm not complaining about MB. You however, seem clueless about the facts. I'm putting you on my ignore list as I'm sick of your babble.
11-24-2003, 06:40 PM
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03 E320, sport package, moon roof, sound upgrade, brilliant silver, charcoal leather, heated seats..
Originally posted by Rob Hephner
I guess I missed the replacement of 10,000 cars! Are you sure about that number?
People come to the web to *****, so counting threads is pointless.
The Nav system problem was the fields inability to troubleshoot the problem, not a vendor or manufacturer problem... Same equipment a year later, and gee no problems... If you want to complain about MB service centers that is a different topic, and I would be on your side of the opinion.
And how about that value to the shareholder? Would you be telling customers to buy XM right now?
I guess I missed the replacement of 10,000 cars! Are you sure about that number?
People come to the web to *****, so counting threads is pointless.
The Nav system problem was the fields inability to troubleshoot the problem, not a vendor or manufacturer problem... Same equipment a year later, and gee no problems... If you want to complain about MB service centers that is a different topic, and I would be on your side of the opinion.
And how about that value to the shareholder? Would you be telling customers to buy XM right now?
I gave you the count of the problem threads based on the ***** you point out. Of course, you miss the whole point, being there are lots of complaints about MB quality, and I pointed this out as a counter to your observation that MB spends lots of time deciding on nuts and bolts.
Indeed, anyone who has closely watched the navi situation knows full well that it was a vendor problem. Check the threads, and you will enlightened.
AGAIN, I'm not complaining about MB. You however, seem clueless about the facts. I'm putting you on my ignore list as I'm sick of your babble.
11-25-2003, 12:49 AM
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Guessing at a number is not a fact, it is a guess. (I think you will find the number is well below 1K, kind of a far cry from 10K)
XM has marketed well, thus leading to thier overvaluation.
How is it a vendor problem if the exact same units are now in the 2004 models?
Ignoring me gets you out of explaining yourself, but does not make what you say true, now does it?
XM still has a sat problem that you ignored...what about that?
XM has marketed well, thus leading to thier overvaluation.
How is it a vendor problem if the exact same units are now in the 2004 models?
Ignoring me gets you out of explaining yourself, but does not make what you say true, now does it?
XM still has a sat problem that you ignored...what about that?
11-25-2003, 10:35 AM
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2016 E400 4-Matic Coupe, 2002 Chev 2500 HD Crew, 1983 Porsche 911SC,
Um....can't help but chime in here.
the new Nav unit IS from a different vendor. Becker.
The old one was made by Bosch.
There was some news recently from MBUSA regarding the change of suppliers due to the quality issues.
Just a clarification of facts.
the new Nav unit IS from a different vendor. Becker.
The old one was made by Bosch.
There was some news recently from MBUSA regarding the change of suppliers due to the quality issues.
Just a clarification of facts.
11-25-2003, 06:33 PM
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2016 E400 4-Matic Coupe, 2002 Chev 2500 HD Crew, 1983 Porsche 911SC,
Are you sure about that?
Rob,
I am pulling my info from this article I read which has been posted here several times. Perhaps I am still wrong...but clearly Bosch is referenced here as having been the supplier of the previous Nav units, and Becker is now the supplier of the new units.
Autoweek: Mercedes Quality
(08:58 Sep. 15, 2003)
Bugs bite Mercedes-Benz quality; glitches lead to go-slower approach
By DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News
FRANKURT -- Top executives at Mercedes-Benz admit that a wave of increasingly complex electronic products proved so difficult to debug that the German automaker is modifying its first-at-all-costs approach to technology.
Quality glitches caused by Mercedes' Comand system proved maddeningly difficult to fix two years ago, forcing the automaker to boost product testing by 50 percent.
Problems with Comand, which integrates the onboard navigator, entertainment system and phone, forced Mercedes to buy back 2,000 E-class sedans from U.S. customers. The quality glitches also created tensions with Robert Bosch GmbH, a key Mercedes supplier.
This is the first time Mercedes-Benz has acknowledged the widespread quality problems. During an interview with Automotive News at the Frankfurt auto show, a top company executive said Mercedes is working hard to improve its ranking on consumer quality surveys.
"We have a problem because we are the technology leader," said Juergen Hubbert, the DaimlerChrysler board member responsible for Mercedes cars. "We were not talking about (the improvement) because you have to see it. On the next survey you will see we are on our way."
Hubbert was referring to J.D. Power's most recent Initial Quality Survey, which measures a vehicle's quality three months after it is purchased. The survey, which was released in spring, ranked Mercedes 15th among brands, barely above the industry average.
Problems began to crop up two years ago, when Mercedes-Benz had trouble integrating Comand's features. Bosch supplied the system's navigator.
When Mercedes-Benz connected Comand's electronic systems, the screen would go blank and systems would malfunction. The system created other glitches. For example, the system inadvertently would activate the electric seats and drain the battery.
A Bosch source says Mercedes asked the supplier to integrate Comand's features after Mercedes had trouble doing so. But the effort to debug Comand strained Bosch's engineering resources.
According to a Mercedes executive, Boschplacated its angry customer by firing a top executive in its Blaupunkt unit, which produces navigators, radios and other electronics. The Mercedes source did not name the executive, and the Bosch spokesman declined to comment.
But it is known that senior Bosch executive Stephan Rojahn left the company without explanation late in 2001.
Rojahn, a highly regarded manager who was on Bosch's fast track, was responsible for Blaupunkt. Rojahn later joined Durr AG, a manufacturer of paint equipment.
Comand's quality glitches proved difficult to track down. The electronics would fail sporadically, making it difficult to identify and fix problems.
"When you looked into it, it never happened again - until the next time," Hubbert said.
As problems persisted, consumers began to downgrade their opinions of Mercedes quality. According to J.D. Power data, Mercedes owners reported 132 problems per 100 vehicles, just above the industry average of 133 problems.
"Seven out of our top 10 problems are with electronics, communications, telematics, radio, telephone - activities where we had put a lot of electronic systems in the car," said Hubbert.
The good news, according to the company, is that the electronics problems have been fixed.
"What we have and what we deliver to the market is of significantly higher quality than it ever was," said Hans-Joachim Schoepf, executive vice president for Mercedes-Benz's car development and engineering.
To improve quality, Mercedes-Benz increased its product testing by 50 percent. "We do more testing than we ever did, especially with debugging," Schoepf said. "The real problem is that we underestimated the debugging phase in new electronics systems, especially multimedia."
The company also redesigned its Comand system so that it can diagnose a problem without the customer's intervention.
"If something happens in the system, it repairs itself," Schoepf says. "You won't see it as a customer."
Mercedes also has dispatched employees to its suppliers to become technology experts. The company has assigned staffers to Motorola, Nokia and Siemens, among others.
"If you want to work together with your supplier you have to have expertise," said Schoepf. "Otherwise, they can tell you anything."
Schoepf also says Mercedes made sure that dealers were kept informed so that they could fix vehicles as they came in for service.
Mercedes-Benz eventually changed suppliers, awarding the navigator contract to Harman/Becker Automotive Systems.
Bosch's other contracts with Mercedes have not been affected.
"It was clear the multimedia side has nothing to do with the fuel injection, sensor or the engine control unit," Schoepf said.
The experience has not deterred Mercedes-Benz from its goal of being the auto industry's technology leader in safety and fuel economy.
For example, Mercedes considers its Pre-Safe crash avoidance system, which activates the brakes when it senses an impending crash, to be a key safety technology.
But company executives are debating the need to adopt less essential technologies quickly. For example, Mercedes-Benz has not moved quickly to introduce Internet access or text message service.
Mercedes executives are troubled by the brand's drop in quality ratings. But Joachim Schmidt, head of worldwide sales and marketing, argues that customer loyalty remains high.
"We have problems but ... we are very successful in terms of sales and we are very successful in terms of brand awareness," Schmidt said. "We have the highest loyalty rate in the automotive industry."
Schmidt says Mercedes dealers have been able to fix nearly all problems.
"We have customers that have high expectations," he says. "There is no sign that the situation is grave. Our image is great."
I am pulling my info from this article I read which has been posted here several times. Perhaps I am still wrong...but clearly Bosch is referenced here as having been the supplier of the previous Nav units, and Becker is now the supplier of the new units.
Autoweek: Mercedes Quality
(08:58 Sep. 15, 2003)
Bugs bite Mercedes-Benz quality; glitches lead to go-slower approach
By DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News
FRANKURT -- Top executives at Mercedes-Benz admit that a wave of increasingly complex electronic products proved so difficult to debug that the German automaker is modifying its first-at-all-costs approach to technology.
Quality glitches caused by Mercedes' Comand system proved maddeningly difficult to fix two years ago, forcing the automaker to boost product testing by 50 percent.
Problems with Comand, which integrates the onboard navigator, entertainment system and phone, forced Mercedes to buy back 2,000 E-class sedans from U.S. customers. The quality glitches also created tensions with Robert Bosch GmbH, a key Mercedes supplier.
This is the first time Mercedes-Benz has acknowledged the widespread quality problems. During an interview with Automotive News at the Frankfurt auto show, a top company executive said Mercedes is working hard to improve its ranking on consumer quality surveys.
"We have a problem because we are the technology leader," said Juergen Hubbert, the DaimlerChrysler board member responsible for Mercedes cars. "We were not talking about (the improvement) because you have to see it. On the next survey you will see we are on our way."
Hubbert was referring to J.D. Power's most recent Initial Quality Survey, which measures a vehicle's quality three months after it is purchased. The survey, which was released in spring, ranked Mercedes 15th among brands, barely above the industry average.
Problems began to crop up two years ago, when Mercedes-Benz had trouble integrating Comand's features. Bosch supplied the system's navigator.
When Mercedes-Benz connected Comand's electronic systems, the screen would go blank and systems would malfunction. The system created other glitches. For example, the system inadvertently would activate the electric seats and drain the battery.
A Bosch source says Mercedes asked the supplier to integrate Comand's features after Mercedes had trouble doing so. But the effort to debug Comand strained Bosch's engineering resources.
According to a Mercedes executive, Boschplacated its angry customer by firing a top executive in its Blaupunkt unit, which produces navigators, radios and other electronics. The Mercedes source did not name the executive, and the Bosch spokesman declined to comment.
But it is known that senior Bosch executive Stephan Rojahn left the company without explanation late in 2001.
Rojahn, a highly regarded manager who was on Bosch's fast track, was responsible for Blaupunkt. Rojahn later joined Durr AG, a manufacturer of paint equipment.
Comand's quality glitches proved difficult to track down. The electronics would fail sporadically, making it difficult to identify and fix problems.
"When you looked into it, it never happened again - until the next time," Hubbert said.
As problems persisted, consumers began to downgrade their opinions of Mercedes quality. According to J.D. Power data, Mercedes owners reported 132 problems per 100 vehicles, just above the industry average of 133 problems.
"Seven out of our top 10 problems are with electronics, communications, telematics, radio, telephone - activities where we had put a lot of electronic systems in the car," said Hubbert.
The good news, according to the company, is that the electronics problems have been fixed.
"What we have and what we deliver to the market is of significantly higher quality than it ever was," said Hans-Joachim Schoepf, executive vice president for Mercedes-Benz's car development and engineering.
To improve quality, Mercedes-Benz increased its product testing by 50 percent. "We do more testing than we ever did, especially with debugging," Schoepf said. "The real problem is that we underestimated the debugging phase in new electronics systems, especially multimedia."
The company also redesigned its Comand system so that it can diagnose a problem without the customer's intervention.
"If something happens in the system, it repairs itself," Schoepf says. "You won't see it as a customer."
Mercedes also has dispatched employees to its suppliers to become technology experts. The company has assigned staffers to Motorola, Nokia and Siemens, among others.
"If you want to work together with your supplier you have to have expertise," said Schoepf. "Otherwise, they can tell you anything."
Schoepf also says Mercedes made sure that dealers were kept informed so that they could fix vehicles as they came in for service.
Mercedes-Benz eventually changed suppliers, awarding the navigator contract to Harman/Becker Automotive Systems.
Bosch's other contracts with Mercedes have not been affected.
"It was clear the multimedia side has nothing to do with the fuel injection, sensor or the engine control unit," Schoepf said.
The experience has not deterred Mercedes-Benz from its goal of being the auto industry's technology leader in safety and fuel economy.
For example, Mercedes considers its Pre-Safe crash avoidance system, which activates the brakes when it senses an impending crash, to be a key safety technology.
But company executives are debating the need to adopt less essential technologies quickly. For example, Mercedes-Benz has not moved quickly to introduce Internet access or text message service.
Mercedes executives are troubled by the brand's drop in quality ratings. But Joachim Schmidt, head of worldwide sales and marketing, argues that customer loyalty remains high.
"We have problems but ... we are very successful in terms of sales and we are very successful in terms of brand awareness," Schmidt said. "We have the highest loyalty rate in the automotive industry."
Schmidt says Mercedes dealers have been able to fix nearly all problems.
"We have customers that have high expectations," he says. "There is no sign that the situation is grave. Our image is great."
11-26-2003, 01:21 AM
#34
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The problem with the Command system was simple, very simple. Yes, Bosch was involved but not at the component level that you might think.
While the fallback occured against Bosch, I would have to say that it was because of thier inability to solve a very simple problem, if you want more info PM me.
That was not the intent of this thread or why I posted, the reason wa to talk about why Sirius and not XM.
I have done quite a bit of testing with both systems (as it is my job) and I can tell you that MB has made the right choice. If you do not believe me or them in that matter going with XM will certainly still be better than FM or AM.
A note on mounting of the antenna, while in some areas you may get away with putting the antenna inside the vehicle, for the best coverage it sshould be put on the roof of the vehicle.
While the fallback occured against Bosch, I would have to say that it was because of thier inability to solve a very simple problem, if you want more info PM me.
That was not the intent of this thread or why I posted, the reason wa to talk about why Sirius and not XM.
I have done quite a bit of testing with both systems (as it is my job) and I can tell you that MB has made the right choice. If you do not believe me or them in that matter going with XM will certainly still be better than FM or AM.
A note on mounting of the antenna, while in some areas you may get away with putting the antenna inside the vehicle, for the best coverage it sshould be put on the roof of the vehicle.
