Dealer says ATF change not required!!
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
I'm going to agree with the latter part of N_Jay's post for big round numbers, but disagree with #7. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that with BMWs, if you let it get past 60, 70K or so without a fluid flush, you're better off just leaving it alone.
Granted that's a Bimmer, not a Merc, so your mileage may vary. The best thing to do is to change it every 30K or so, consistently, for the life of the car. If you get Daddy's hand-me-down all the better, because you know how it was treated and maintained.
Granted that's a Bimmer, not a Merc, so your mileage may vary. The best thing to do is to change it every 30K or so, consistently, for the life of the car. If you get Daddy's hand-me-down all the better, because you know how it was treated and maintained.
A good bit of my information comes from an email exchange with ZF service (ZF Builds the BMW transmissions, or should I say, BMW uses ZF transmissions).
Our MB Transmissions, while not from ZF, are very similar in design and materials.
The "Myth" retains its credibility this way.
Very few people wake up one morning and say, Hey, I have not changed the transmission fluid in 100K miles, lets do it now.
What happens is you notice something "just a little off", or "not quite like it used to be" and think, Hmm, better change the fluid before it goes bad. (When in fact is already going bad).
Then after the change when the transmission fails, the change is blamed instead of the failure to maintain the car properly from the beginning.
EDIT: Well when my son got his granddad's (my father Audi) the service records showed it at 125K with no transmission fluid changes (2000 A6 in the days when the German car companies were trying to be "environmentally conscious" by reducing fluid changes to the minimum necessary and transmissions were being quoted as "lifetime").
In giving the car a once over and deciding to change the fluid, I came across two very reputable shops selling the same "Don't change it story". A hunt for solid information lead me to ZF Service North America.
Hello Neil,
There isn't any risk if you drain and fill the fluid. Sometimes flushing a high mileage vehicle can cause problems because you may disrupt settled debris. I recommend changing the fluid and filter. The viscosity of the fluid breaks down over time and the ability to maintain the features of the additives can deminish. You may notice some changes in the shift quality at first if you have a 6 speed. The module may take some time adapting to the new fluid.
Kind regards,
Joe Laubinger
ZF Services, LLC.
1-800-321-0784
There isn't any risk if you drain and fill the fluid. Sometimes flushing a high mileage vehicle can cause problems because you may disrupt settled debris. I recommend changing the fluid and filter. The viscosity of the fluid breaks down over time and the ability to maintain the features of the additives can deminish. You may notice some changes in the shift quality at first if you have a 6 speed. The module may take some time adapting to the new fluid.
Kind regards,
Joe Laubinger
ZF Services, LLC.
1-800-321-0784
Last edited by N_Jay; Dec 5, 2014 at 09:45 AM.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 33
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From: Bay Area, CA
2003 e500
I have an '03 E500 with around 105K . I bought mine about a year ago and got the transmission fluid changed around 95K (since there were slight shift irregularities).
Ever since I got the fluid changed I can tell it made a big difference.
Plan to keep up with the fresh fluid every 30K miles.
Ever since I got the fluid changed I can tell it made a big difference.
Plan to keep up with the fresh fluid every 30K miles.
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: CA
cls55
still going strong
I have an '03 E500 with around 105K . I bought mine about a year ago and got the transmission fluid changed around 95K (since there were slight shift irregularities).
Ever since I got the fluid changed I can tell it made a big difference.
Plan to keep up with the fresh fluid every 30K miles.
Ever since I got the fluid changed I can tell it made a big difference.
Plan to keep up with the fresh fluid every 30K miles.
Im on 108k miles and I have not change the ATF. Looked into the VMI to see if the previous owner changed it but nope, wasn't changed.
My car does seem to burn oil especially driving 80+ but my SA told me thats normal given the high mileage. His words not mine...
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 33
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From: Bay Area, CA
2003 e500
Does your car lunge forward when downshifting into 1st?
Im on 108k miles and I have not change the ATF. Looked into the VMI to see if the previous owner changed it but nope, wasn't changed.
My car does seem to burn oil especially driving 80+ but my SA told me thats normal given the high mileage. His words not mine...
Im on 108k miles and I have not change the ATF. Looked into the VMI to see if the previous owner changed it but nope, wasn't changed.
My car does seem to burn oil especially driving 80+ but my SA told me thats normal given the high mileage. His words not mine...
But the reason I had the fluid changed a while back was because in 1st gear, if i kept it between 1,000 and 1,500 rpms the engine would act funny and almost bounce (like if it was trying to get into 2nd). But once I accelerated past that I would never have any issues.
Do your problems only happen when its cold? Does it still lunge after the car has warmed up?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Mine has always had a hard upshift out of second (remember in normal mode these cars start in 2nd) when cold and slowing.
We notice it because we have a stop sign about 500 feet from our driveway just at the point it should be upshifting so we are about to put the brakes on.
It has always done it (Purchased at 42K miles) have had ATF changed twice, about 50K and about 100K.
Dealer said it is due to high idle when cold. It only happens for the first minuet of driving.
We notice it because we have a stop sign about 500 feet from our driveway just at the point it should be upshifting so we are about to put the brakes on.
It has always done it (Purchased at 42K miles) have had ATF changed twice, about 50K and about 100K.
Dealer said it is due to high idle when cold. It only happens for the first minuet of driving.
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 78
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From: CA
cls55
No mine does not lunge.
But the reason I had the fluid changed a while back was because in 1st gear, if i kept it between 1,000 and 1,500 rpms the engine would act funny and almost bounce (like if it was trying to get into 2nd). But once I accelerated past that I would never have any issues.
Do your problems only happen when its cold? Does it still lunge after the car has warmed up?
But the reason I had the fluid changed a while back was because in 1st gear, if i kept it between 1,000 and 1,500 rpms the engine would act funny and almost bounce (like if it was trying to get into 2nd). But once I accelerated past that I would never have any issues.
Do your problems only happen when its cold? Does it still lunge after the car has warmed up?
In reply to the OP, your dealer is probably right about not switching out the ATF at this point. The car is worth less than 10k and if the transmission goes its a 6k+ job. My suggestion would have been to swap the valve body of the car for a newer one but given that your already 100k+ there's no need.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: CA
cls55
Point i am trying to make is that if the transmission ceases, the cost to repair it is more than 60% of the current value of the car. There is a greater risk of breaking the tranny with a fluid flush than the old oil being in there so why not wait till the later actually happens before splurging the cash.
I think the OP should take his chances and skip the ATF flush, drive it till the tranny collapses IMHO. I was in the same situation a couple months back but going through the forums I came across various opinions on whether to do the flush or not cause it is a sensitive topic for lack of a better word.
I saw people in w221's suffering after just performing a flush and others who hadn't seen an issue with no ATF change. My friend was getting an oil change done on an Acura at Goodyear and the SA advised against swapping the ATF due to the same reasons mentioned in this thread since he hadn't performed it in 100k miles.
I think the OP should take his chances and skip the ATF flush, drive it till the tranny collapses IMHO. I was in the same situation a couple months back but going through the forums I came across various opinions on whether to do the flush or not cause it is a sensitive topic for lack of a better word.
I saw people in w221's suffering after just performing a flush and others who hadn't seen an issue with no ATF change. My friend was getting an oil change done on an Acura at Goodyear and the SA advised against swapping the ATF due to the same reasons mentioned in this thread since he hadn't performed it in 100k miles.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Aren't you just buying into the myth?
Note: We are talking about a proper drain and refill, not a "Power Flush" by some wonderful machine touted by places like AAMCO.
I think the OP should take his chances and skip the ATF flush, drive it till the tranny collapses IMHO. I was in the same situation a couple months back but going through the forums I came across various opinions on whether to do the flush or not cause it is a sensitive topic for lack of a better word.
I saw people in w221's suffering after just performing a flush and others who hadn't seen an issue with no ATF change. My friend was getting an oil change done on an Acura at Goodyear and the SA advised against swapping the ATF due to the same reasons mentioned in this thread since he hadn't performed it in 100k miles.
If that were in fact true, don't you think someone would be selling special fluid that has all the properties of old, with the missing properties of new?
