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E-Class (W211) 2003-2009

SBC and NHTSA

 
Old 02-28-2017, 12:17 PM
  #51  
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I am counting reported SBC failures and this one is about 11th failure with 4rd report confirming that the emergency system works.
I know it sucks, but it works.
That for 13 years the system is on the road.
Lot of panic topics are about maintenance reminder, when owners ***** about price tag.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:31 PM
  #52  
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The backup brakes worked on mine too, but like everyone else has said, very little braking power.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:03 PM
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... and no warning whatsoever. Imagine seeing a red light at 60mph, stepping on the brakes, barely getting any brake power and blowing straight through the intersection. Guess who that happened to?
This guy
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Old 03-01-2017, 04:19 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by kajtek1 View Post
I know it sucks, but it works.
No, it doesn't work. You should experience it before drawing any conclusions.

Real problem is that this was happening years ago when this cars where much younger. So it may happen with replaced SBC unit again. I was looking at new S coupe to replace this aging CLS500, but after yesterdays experience with red warning, i decided to look somewhere else. MB just committed suicide in my book.
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:08 PM
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I've been practicing driving with no power-assist on all my vehicles.
Actually once PS pump broke on my 7-tons motorhome when I was leaving campground to go home.
I drove 200 miles, including 25 miles of mountain, curvy road with no power brakes and no power steering.
Not a task I would recommend to everybody, but I managed.
So when you tell me you had hard time to stop less than 2-ton car without power assist, I feel no pity.
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:58 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by kajtek1 View Post
I've been practicing driving with no power-assist on all my vehicles.
Actually once PS pump broke on my 7-tons motorhome when I was leaving campground to go home.
I drove 200 miles, including 25 miles of mountain, curvy road with no power brakes and no power steering.
Not a task I would recommend to everybody, but I managed.
So when you tell me you had hard time to stop less than 2-ton car without power assist, I feel no pity.
You are obviously not paying attention. It is not without power assist!
IT IS PEDAL TO THE FLOOR AND BARELY
ANY BRAKING ON REAR WHEELS!!!


I know that it sounds unbelievable. But when somebody dies people will begin to pay attention. Better now. We are driving our own coffins.
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:35 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by kajtek1 View Post
So when you tell me you had hard time to stop less than 2-ton car without power assist, I feel no pity.
Yeah, your not listening. I've driven my Vanagon camper(much heavier than a W211) without power-assist brakes and it doesn't compare.

A backup booster would have been the right thing to do.

It might sound cool to be so flippant about our situation, but not everybody is a macho man. Even with a replaced SBC, it'll happen again with no warning. I'm not confident for my wife to drive this car let alone hand it down to my kid which I was planning on doing.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:06 PM
  #58  
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Well, I got 12 years and 180,000kms out of the first SBC, so I'm not going to worry about it again until 2027. The car will likely either be on a scrap heap by then or some one else's problem.
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Old 03-04-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by marc hanna View Post
Well, I got 12 years and 180,000kms out of the first SBC, so I'm not going to worry about it again until 2027. The car will likely either be on a scrap heap by then or some one else's problem.
That is if the second one will last as long as the first one. But that may not necessarily be like that and than you are suddenly driving 60 mph without brakes.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:59 PM
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Have those that have experienced reaching the "predetermined service limit" on the SBC without any prior warnings filed the incident with the NHTSA? There is a sticky at the beginning of this forum for doing so.

John
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:53 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by hangit06 View Post
Have those that have experienced reaching the "predetermined service limit" on the SBC without any prior warnings filed the incident with the NHTSA? There is a sticky at the beginning of this forum for doing so.

John
I don't think there is such thing.
1 member posted that he pushed the service to the limit and after driving with white warning for a month he's got red warning.
Another month of ignorance and computer put car in limp mode.
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kajtek1 View Post
I don't think there is such thing.
1 member posted that he pushed the service to the limit and after driving with white warning for a month he's got red warning.
Another month of ignorance and computer put car in limp mode.
There is no white warning. Strait in the red warning and no brakes!
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:25 AM
  #63  
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My comment was tongue in cheek because it is a software induced reduction in braking power. It is not the same as a master cylinder failure or brake line rupture in a conventional system.

John
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by hangit06 View Post
My comment was tongue in cheek because it is a software induced reduction in braking power. It is not the same as a master cylinder failure or brake line rupture in a conventional system.

John
I can't believe that anybody in his right mind can program almost complete brake failure without any warning. Besides that, why would everything work just fine after restarting engine?

It is system failure with a very poor backup. Almost no backup. I can see that it is hard to believe, but personal experience can be extremely dangerous. I had one, fortunately at very low speed.
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:32 AM
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mishar - you had system failure, when we are talking about maintenance program.
Complete different issues.
Why you had failure that disappear on restart?
I can only guess, but hanging motor brushes do such things.
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:05 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by hangit06 View Post
NHTSA and SBC
I have been in contact with the NHTSA regarding the SBC service threshold issue. They advised me to have as many owners of vehicles with these units to contact them via safercar.gov and file a complaint. This is only way the NHTSA will take any action.

This is a safety issue since the brakes go into backup mode with no prior warning. At the very least MB should issue a recall to interrogate the units with STAR DAS.

Thanks for your help.

John

Below is what I submitted to the NHTSA website. It will ask for date of incident, but just use the date you file.

This vehicle is equipped with Sensotronic Brake Control that has a service threshold. When this threshold is reached the brake system defaults to non power assisted hydraulic mode to the front wheels only. This occurs without any prior warning and results in increased stopping distance. I have sent a copy of the Mercedes service bulletin S142.46-P-0012A which addresses this issue. Mercedes stopped installing this system in 2006. At the very least, Mercedes should issue a mandatory recall to interrogate these vehicles with STAR DAS to determine how close to the service threshold the SBC unit is and replace them at the dealer's expense. This is a major safety issue that needs to be addressed.
This is tread starter message. So what are you talking about?
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:34 PM
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I am talking about filing your episode with the safercar.gov as stated in my thread starter.

John
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:49 AM
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I know, but I am not in US. Would it make any sense?
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:13 AM
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no.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:04 PM
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I guess the whole thing started with wrong assumption as SBC does give plenty of maintenance warnings.
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kajtek1 View Post
I guess the whole thing started with wrong assumption as SBC does give plenty of maintenance warnings.
When does one get these warnings?
My vehicle has 155k miles on the original SBC. I've had four red blinking SBC failures with no white warnings whatsoever. Luckily only one of them was at high speed and resulted in a dangerous situation. I only learned that the SBC has a service limit by reading up on this forum.

Yes, I have filed with the NHSTA. Thanks
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:53 PM
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Did you have it scanned for codes?
Chances are you made false report quoting failure as maintenance warning.
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kajtek1 View Post
Did you have it scanned for codes?
Chances are you made false report quoting failure as maintenance warning.
Can you describe what the maintenance warning looks like?

What I've experienced is driving normally and as soon as I press the brake pedal, the instrument cluster blinks red and there is almost no power in the brakes. The message in the cluster says something to the effect of "reduced braking power, visit workshop". I then turn the car off, restart it, and everything is back to normal with no maintenance messages.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:17 PM
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I believe he is referring to a white stop sign warning stating "service brakes, visit workshop" that has appeared on some of the owner's dashboard. Some have ignored the white warning for a period of time and the red stop sign/reduced braking occurred. Others, according to their posts, had no white stop sign warning prior to the red!

These are not maintenance failures. This is preprogrammed "end of service life". See attached.

John
Attached Thumbnails SBC and NHTSA-sbc-doc.jpeg  
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hangit06 View Post
These are not maintenance failures. This is preprogrammed "end of service life". See attached.

John
Do you really think shutting off your brakes without warning is programmed?
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