GearHead

I was actually surprised how light the X3 felt when the doors were slammed shut. BMW's cost cutting is showing its ugly face from cheapy interior and now flimsy doors. It is priced too high. The X5 is a much better buy than the X3 (IMHO).

On the topic on alternatives, have you guys seen the prototype Acura RL (uncovered during the NY Auto show) --- 300HP with allwheeldrive. It appears to have a long list of standard features including adaptive BiXenon headlights, voice activation real time traffic reporting and Navi, bluetooth integration, telematics and blah blah blah ... I think it is aimed straight for the W211, E60 and others within this league.

nyca

I saw the RL, its nice, but I didn't like it as much as the M45:

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e60/4931655-1.html

but that's just my own tastes.

But you are correct, the Japanese sense vulnerability in this segment. BMW blowing the design on the 5, the E perhaps with some quality concerns and being at the high end on price/value in this segment, the new A6 with that large grill and that damn MMI joystick, etc.

GearHead

You are right in terms of the upcoming M45. It sure beats the current generation. It looks like a grown up G35.

I have not warmed up to the Nissan/Infinti designs --- too angular for my taste (at least for now). Maybe this doesn't apply to the upcoming M45, in some of the current Infinti's, I find them having too much hard plastic content in the interior --- just as bad as the current Bangled BMW interiors.

For high end vehicles, IMHO designers need to create timeless designs. The Jags, Porsches have had the same mystic since the 60s. What turned me on to the W211 is that the classy lines. I think that this design will fall into the journals of a timeless design. 20 years from now, the passion should still be there and if it's there, man, the design had succeeded. Based upon my initial assessment, I think the upcoming R171 -- SLK will fall into the same league.

As for myself, since I baby and keep my cars, I hate to get something that looks good today, it's a maybe tomorrow and definitely bland in the future.

Apologize for straying away from the original intent of this thread.

Rudegar

Is the de-contenting for all models? That is, is M-B trying to get a low-price de-contented W211 (I'll call it a "new" E320), a mid-level (what was the E320 and may become the E350), a high level E500 and a super car E55? That would fit with BMWs U.S. line up of 525i, 530i, 545i and M5.

Or is this de-contenting for all models? I can't BELEIVE they would de-content an E500 or E55. What the h--- would be the point??

nyca

we were commenting earlier in this thread - what can they be saving in costs by deleting the entrance lamps, lumbar, ac duct to the storage compartment, etc? $200 tops, if even that?

at the same time, the C class is adding content. likely because MB doesn't do as well in that segment against the competition. the lesson here is - they are doing this on the E class, because they can, its a strong seller in its segment, and most buyers won't notice these changes.

nyca

and now on another thread - someone is saying their dealer told them that 4ZONE climate control will no longer be available on the 2005 E320, even as an option.

onpaws

Boston, MA. Build Date 03/30/04. These features have indeed been removed on my 2004 E500 4Matic.

Rudegar

onpaws: Which features are you referring to that have been removed? My E500 was a Jan 04 build date. The only thing "removed" was the rubber pad which can be added to the ashtray opeing--and when I asked about it, they assumed it was just missing and ordered me one.

beluga

before deciding on e320, i did look at X3. i'm wondering if the fact it's built in austria by steyr & puch has something to do with this. they also build MB G class, aka Gelandewagen, but more to the point i believe they built *early* W211/E-class, which had lots of quality problems, as regular MBWorld readers know.

onpaws

Hi Rudegar,

It follows the description as this:
"The illuminated entry system does not include entrance lamps beneath side mirrors. The front center armrest storage compartment is not climate-controlled. The windshield is tinted but does not include a shaded upper band. "

I have not tested the following deletions:
"The front passenger seat does not include adjustable lumbar support. The windshield washers are heated only at the nozzles. The reservoir and hoses are no longer heated."

Also my paint code is 744, not C744.

Rudegar

Woof! That is shocking if the paint code means they have retreated from the nanotech clearcoat. Also, I am really surpised about the entrance lamps. My windshield doesn't have the color band at the top although it may be because I have the Appearance Package and the blue tint?? I just don't get it! $60+K and this penny-pinching?? And dropping the maintenance in '05! M-B is really changing fast. Hope some good changes occur soon.

Did the dealer tell you these things in advance? Are these exclsuions 4Matic only?

schristo

The new paint is being used at the Sindelfingen plant outside of Stuttgart.

The S 4matic is assembled at Sindelfingen and is using the new paint.

The E 4matic is assembled at the Austria plant that has not yet changed over. The Austria plant also assembles the G class.

onpaws

No these things were not mentioned, although I don't expect the salesperson to know such minutiae. I bet my salesperson did not know much about Nano-paint or about which factory each model is built at.

It's sad to know that my 4matic neither has: 7G-Tronic, Nano-Paint, nor the features on this topic (in addition to the lack of ability to add the AMG sport package). The sacrifice is way too high.

Md_Benz

For what its worth, I just picked up my new E500 (build 3/04) and there is no entrance lamps under the mirrors, console is not climate controlled, and the windshield is tinted but no shaded band at the top. My paint color is 723. I'm not sure about the other decontenting.

Rudegar

So I guess many of us are windering why this decontenting is happening. On a $65,000 car (an E500 with options), are they

1. Trying to save a few hundred dollars to tweak margins?
2. Doing above because they lack pricing power to increase price more than they already have in February rather than decontent?
3. So concerned about quality that they have to reduce complexity (seems unlikely as the things deleted are not techy).
4. Other???

I know some have posited some theories. Any others?

glojo

Excellent question, is down grading like this something that has happened before, or is this a precedent?

Usually car manufacturers add accessories to improve sales or to sell off the remaing stock of a model whose production run is coming to an end??????

On European E-class the blue tint windscreen is fitted to the most expensive of the range, namely the Avantgarde and E55. I believe the Elegance has a tinted screen with an upper shaded band??

Regards,
John

IluvS500

well even if the W211 is being stripped of some minor details, I would still buy it over a new 5er anyday.

Apollo

Hi

My car is 3 weeks old and there is no mat for ashtray, not really bothered about this though. It does have entry lights under mirrors.

I have noticed something else. I had a loaner E class about 6 months ago. The map pockets on the back of the seats were made of leather with leather seating. Mine are not, they are MB Tex. Looks like another cost cutting excercise hoping no one would notice.

Do MB think we do not pay enough for these cars. They are by no means cheap. Those marketing guys are going to destroy the brand. They are probably not bothered as most marketing people only stay in one place a couple of years before moving on. They will be able to include their cost cutting savings on their CV as an achievement. The real damage will only become apparent years after they are gone.

While I am ranting - my view is that this is happening along with poor quality for one of two reasons. They are trying to recover the Chrysler loses or keep up with the over paid German workers who keep holding the company to ransom.

Now that's better!

IluvS500

I say MB should ditch Chrysler

Barry45RPM

For SURE M-B should ditch Chrysler and/or Mitsubishi. They're never going to make Chrysler a "world class" car, and it IS draining M-B coffers. (Not as much as Mitsubishi, though) Also, the sharing of M-B parts with Chrysler, even though its previous generation stuff, while good for Chrysler is inappropriate.

rarenaro

it seems that two cars of recent build - those of Md_Benz and Apollo have different items on them. One has the dis-contented items, the other does not. I wonder if we order a 2004 E500 E-class today - would it have the items or not. Dealers (I know anyway) are standing by the statement that all these items are in recent builds - but will not be there for 2005. This is strange indeed. Any thoughts?

nyca

once the assembly line for the car gets a set of parts - like the mirrors with no entrance lights or the new non climate controlled storage compartment - those parts get put on the car, they don't care what model year it is. the posts that first started these threads were correct, the newest builds are getting de-contented, its hit or miss as to which day the line runs out of parts to make a particular car.

MB doesn't think the typical buyer will notice this stuff - so they take it out, and use the $200 savings to increase the "money in the trunk" for the Pacificas which are clogging dealer lots. Its that simple.

What I want to know - what are they going to do in 2006, when the base E is supposed to be an E350 with 7G transmission? Will they increase the price $2000 to cover that? And what happens when they have the mid-model run facelift for this car, they typically ADD little bits of equipment (like they just did with the C) at that time, how are they going to swing that?

Apollo

Hi

Couple of points:

I have just picked mine up from the factory and they work very much just in time. Only a few hours parts on site. So I doubt the change is based on when they run out of the existing parts. I wonder if they are doing this to pay for the new 7G auto transmission without increasing the price, if this is going on all the autos. Or maybe it is because they now have more capacity than sales so they can discount. Whatever it is the wrong move, one of the things that attracts me to MB is the attention to detail.

HotWheels500

Just looked at a 2005 E320 CDI at the dealer in Fairfield, CT USA. No entrance lamps on outside mirrors; console has split top doors with climate controlled bottom compartment; top compartment is wired for phone; no strap on back armrest; low draft air diffusser on center dash didn't seem to do anything, but maybe I don't know how to work it. Couldn't check out other parts reported as decontented.

Pierre Louis

Levind:

I agree these changes seem confusing.

My 2005 E320 CDI has the lights underneath the doors to light up the sidewalk, which may be better than having them on the side mirrors.

Wonder if the CDI has a different engine set-up not allowing for the extra hardware needed for 4 zone A/C?

What is the rubber mat to replace the ash tray????

I have the panoramic roof, heating package (including heated steering wheel), audio package, and lighting package. Very awesome vehicle. 31 mpg at 75 mph.

I will be using a Colgan bra (car is black/charcoal) and mirror covers since the area is ripe with bugs and little rocks.

Pierre