Shudder while braking
08-23-2017, 12:27 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Shudder while braking
First, I know from the title that it sounds like it's the brake rotors but let me describe it more in detail (it's a bit long). TLDR at the end.
I've been driving my 2003 E320 (at 280,000km) quite hard recently (4000km in 2 days) and I've noticed that when I brake fairly lightly, the steering wheel wobbles side to side and it can be felt throughout the car. The car doesn't pull to either side though. When I brake harder, there is a louder shuddering almost like something is bouncing up and down.
So far sounds like brake rotors but the weird thing is, if I brake a certain way, either easing it in or sometimes braking harder, the shuddering and vibration will go away. This leads me to think it has something to do with the suspension.
When I came back I had my wheels changed because they were very worn and unevenly so. The rear camber was way off. After having my wheels changed, the vibrations and shuddering were still there. But after realigning the wheels the problem seemed to go away until I just did some highway driving and the problem seems to have returned to the same severity as before. I think some bumps may have put the wheels out of alignment again.
To me this seems like some kind of suspension problem. But I recently had both front lower and upper ball joints replaced (ball joint pointing down was not replaced). Any idea what could cause this issue? I'm trying to narrow the problem down before I start replacing more things.
FYI the rotors and brake pads looked fine, I haven't measured them for warping but there is still plenty of material.
TLDR: Is it possible that brake rotors are warped even if the shuddering while braking only sometimes occurs?
I've been driving my 2003 E320 (at 280,000km) quite hard recently (4000km in 2 days) and I've noticed that when I brake fairly lightly, the steering wheel wobbles side to side and it can be felt throughout the car. The car doesn't pull to either side though. When I brake harder, there is a louder shuddering almost like something is bouncing up and down.
So far sounds like brake rotors but the weird thing is, if I brake a certain way, either easing it in or sometimes braking harder, the shuddering and vibration will go away. This leads me to think it has something to do with the suspension.
When I came back I had my wheels changed because they were very worn and unevenly so. The rear camber was way off. After having my wheels changed, the vibrations and shuddering were still there. But after realigning the wheels the problem seemed to go away until I just did some highway driving and the problem seems to have returned to the same severity as before. I think some bumps may have put the wheels out of alignment again.
To me this seems like some kind of suspension problem. But I recently had both front lower and upper ball joints replaced (ball joint pointing down was not replaced). Any idea what could cause this issue? I'm trying to narrow the problem down before I start replacing more things.
FYI the rotors and brake pads looked fine, I haven't measured them for warping but there is still plenty of material.
TLDR: Is it possible that brake rotors are warped even if the shuddering while braking only sometimes occurs?
08-26-2017, 06:51 AM
#2
Super Member
To answer your question, yes it is possible the rotors are warped even if the shuddering only happens on occasion.
Just be aware that "warped" may not be the correct term to use. It is possible that the rotor has uneven brake pad deposits on the surface of the rotor. This can happen under heavy braking applications and coming to a complete stop with the brake still on. For example, coming from high speed to a stop light, and still holding the brake on while the light is red. Structurally the rotor is fine, but the pad material may have attached to an area of the disc.
You could have the rotor machined, but because new OEM (Zimmerman) rotors are so cheap, why not just replace them including the pads? I just checked and to replace the rotors and pads, front and rear, would cost under $300 in parts.
Just be aware that "warped" may not be the correct term to use. It is possible that the rotor has uneven brake pad deposits on the surface of the rotor. This can happen under heavy braking applications and coming to a complete stop with the brake still on. For example, coming from high speed to a stop light, and still holding the brake on while the light is red. Structurally the rotor is fine, but the pad material may have attached to an area of the disc.
You could have the rotor machined, but because new OEM (Zimmerman) rotors are so cheap, why not just replace them including the pads? I just checked and to replace the rotors and pads, front and rear, would cost under $300 in parts.
08-26-2017, 01:19 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
To answer your question, yes it is possible the rotors are warped even if the shuddering only happens on occasion.
Just be aware that "warped" may not be the correct term to use. It is possible that the rotor has uneven brake pad deposits on the surface of the rotor. This can happen under heavy braking applications and coming to a complete stop with the brake still on. For example, coming from high speed to a stop light, and still holding the brake on while the light is red. Structurally the rotor is fine, but the pad material may have attached to an area of the disc.
You could have the rotor machined, but because new OEM (Zimmerman) rotors are so cheap, why not just replace them including the pads? I just checked and to replace the rotors and pads, front and rear, would cost under $300 in parts.
Just be aware that "warped" may not be the correct term to use. It is possible that the rotor has uneven brake pad deposits on the surface of the rotor. This can happen under heavy braking applications and coming to a complete stop with the brake still on. For example, coming from high speed to a stop light, and still holding the brake on while the light is red. Structurally the rotor is fine, but the pad material may have attached to an area of the disc.
You could have the rotor machined, but because new OEM (Zimmerman) rotors are so cheap, why not just replace them including the pads? I just checked and to replace the rotors and pads, front and rear, would cost under $300 in parts.
Interestingly, i had a feeling the vibration was coming from the front left wheel so I took a look at the wheel bearing. It looked OK except the grease was a bit darker so I reapplied the correct grease and tightened it to spec. The steering wheel shake seems to happen less often now, especially at lower speeds.
The car still shudders when braking at higher speed but it doesn't shake the steering wheel. From what I've read this suggests an issue with the rear rotor.
Also, this might be better for a second topic but I noticed that my rear tires have a noticeable negative camber. I had an alignment check and they said it was -1.5 which seems to be within spec from what I've read. I'm just worried that they will prematurely wear out my tires like my last ones. Would such a negative camber indicate worn out rear suspension? I've attached a picture of the rear wheel.
