DavidNJ

So I was thinking, something I do on rare occasions time to time, and had an idea, an even rarer event.

On the Acura TL, the valet trunk lock is an electrical toggle switch in the glove box. Toggling it turns off the electric remote to the trunk. You then lock the glove box to secure. I believe many GM vehicles work this way also.

On the E-class is:

-The trunk remote receiver in the car (and not in the trunk)?

-The connection between the electric door switch and interior trunk release by copper cable (in contrast with fiber optic cable? If so, is that cable buried or accessabile in its bundle?

-Is there a single lead from the remote receiver, interior lock switch, and interior trunk release to the trunk lock?

-Does the Soprano release have its own battery that works in the event of a power failure to the trunk?

If yes to all of these, it may be possible to put an electric switch in the glove box that locks the trunk by disabling all electric releases. No, that is not the old deadbolt. However that deadbolt was way on the overkill side. Anyone desperate enough could have broken in via the rear seat or broken out the lock.

So, this may be a fix for us all.

scorchie

Breaking into my trunk through the rear seat would prove to be quite a laborious task. Anyone trying to do that would never amount to much of a thief... prying the trunk open with a crowbar would be faster and attract less attention.

And really, the valet lock on the trunk is not a deadbolt. It just prevents the trunk latch from opening, by rotating the release lever out of position from activating the pin.

-s-

DavidNJ

And it is no longer there!

Would the electric switch method work. All it has to do is prevent the key from opening it.

Come on scorchie...you know these cars pretty well...

scorchie

I need to look at a wiring diagram... everything is CANBUS network these days and I suspect if you just interrupt the CANBUS signal to the lock, you should be OK and NO electronic method will open it.

When you say "prevent the key from opening it" you're meaning the remote key, right? Because the mechanical key is mechanical and I think it will open it no matter what (dead battery, etc.).

-s-

DavidNJ

N121 on CAN B is (RTL) Remote Trunk Locking Control Module, however wouldn't the single to the solenoid be a simple 12 volt, 1-5 amp shot? Or even less if there is a separate power and control circuit.

scorchie

OK, I looked at the block/wiring/component location diagrams, and I have a few issues... I need to look at a real car because the diagrams and black/white pictures aren't good enough.

On my car though (it is different because it has "remote trunk locking" which is the trunk closer), it appears that there are a number of ways to do this.

1) interrupt power to fuse 33 (which runs the trunk lock control module, but I am not sure what else it powers)

2) interrupt power to the control module (the emergency release button would no longer open the trunk, it is just an input switch like the external switch, door trunk switch, lock switch, etc.)

3) interrupt canbus to the control module (i think this would disable MOST switches)

4) interrupt signal from the control module to the lock release (looks like you could switch the ground to the solenoid coils)

-s-

DavidNJ

So it seems possible. I thought the Soprano release had its own battery. If so, that would allow it to work even if we disabled the rest, unless it ran all the way back to an external control circuit.

Personally, I would avoid the CANBUS if possible. If I recall correctly, that is a big cable and I think it has some sort of protocols on the circuit that could send an error.

#4 sounds good. Where is the wire? If it is in the trunk, you could also but the switch there! That may make for a very short wire run.

Thanks,

David

scorchie

Well, #4 sounds good but the wire needs to be long... it appears that the key switch has no mechanical connection on the newer cars. I have to see a real W211 without trunk closer to verify this. If so, then there would be no good reason to put the switch in the trunk.

If the emergency trunk release has its own battery, that battery needs to supply the coil, the trunk control module, etc. as they all play into the opening of the trunk. It might be that the "own battery" is misconstrued from the secondary battery in the W211. Incidentally, TeleAid does have its own battery, and so does the antitheft alarm.

CANBUS wires are usually a twisted pair, about 20g (relatively small). The bus topology is star passive, meaning all pairs join together in a terminal point with no active electronics. All devices on the CAN can send messages out; all devices can listen. Each device is responsible for paying attention to messages it is interested in and ignoring other messages. The way Mercedes separates CAN signals from devices that should have controlled access is by creating separate CANBUSes with gateways between.

I think it will take some experimentation to find the best solution... but there are at least a few to try. The appeal of the CANBUS solution is that I believe the CANBUS wires for the trunk controller already run to the front of the car.

-s-

JimPurdy

I have seen some cars where the trunk release switch in the car has a key slot so you can lock that switch. This also disengages the remote release.

DavidNJ

Ok, whats the next step?

scorchie

Decide whether you are actually getting your car?

-s-

DavidNJ

I would have to buy the car in just over two weeks. Just before that, pricing on the '05 BMW 530 will be available and I can definitely determine whether the bluetooth phone and sat radio with nav are actually available. We will also have our VIN and be able to determine if our MB has the REST feature or not.

Then we will decide. If the BMW is more than $2-3k more expensive...probably and MB decision. If it is more than $2-3k less expensive, then probably a BMW decision. Otherwise...a long, hard, soul-searching decision. Well, maybe that is an exaggeration, however I will probably spend 2,000 or more hours in the car, so these things count! My bed and my desk chair are the only places I stay longer.

kort677

I think that you are fixated on the wrong things, how about comfort , engine, reliability and costs as a deciding factor. You've done nothing but **** and moan about features that are of questionable value, the command with sat radio is available and the rest feature is a doodad that in the whole scheme of things doesn't do that much.

DavidNJ

kort667,

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even you. The REST is minor to me, the hot/cold thumb wheel is not. If these features weren't important we could all get Honda Accords or some such. We get these cars for the features. Certainly not the build quality, which is clearly behind a Kentucky Camry.

I (we) have had the misfortune when confused management at MB has embarked on decontenting, and we a running one step ahead of missing features. If this car could have ordered as an '04, it would have 4-place climate control with a charcoal filter and recirc (for a trivial $560), heated steering wheel, puddle lamps in the o/s mirrors, etc. If it could have been ordered to international specs it could have Airmatic and heated rear seats. If the engineers weren't looking for ways to save a nickel and make the cars less desireable, the Soprano trunk release would not have eliminated the valet lock. I don't know of ANY other car where the valet lock was eliminated to implement the Soprano escape release.

My wife and I have options. A third BMW 5-series. Or this MB. Each with compromises. I don't like compromises.

scorchie

Going OT but...

Did you know that the engineers didn't eliminate the valet lock... the marketing people did. Engineers hardly ever concern themselves with saving money.

And, the hot cold thumbwheel does not operate when the climate control is in automatic mode. No wonder I never found need for it. (The internal light sensor knows that if it is sunny but cold outside, to direct warm air to the lower heater vents and cool air through the dash vents.)

Finally, everyone has their own opinion and should just choose their cars based on what they want. Rarely will expressing ones discontent on a public forum change the outcome of things... but making those feelings known to marketing people is generally a much better use of one's time.

-s-

DavidNJ

Where in the MB documentation does it say the hot/cold wheel only worked in manual mode. In our BMWs, it works ALL of the time.

I don't think the marketers designed the Soprano lock. They said there had to be one. They might have even suggested, or even engineering suggested as a cost savings, removing the deadbolt. However, that does not mean removing the valet lock.

It is a poor design decision. IMHO a poor decision by engineering. And an even poorer decision by marketing who either wasn't tracking or didn't care about this feature.

David

P.S.
MB is pretty aware of my issues with the heated steering wheel, valet lock, and climate control.

scorchie

Page 168, Part No. 211 584 74 82 USA Edition B 2003, climate control section:

"Only in manual mode is it possible to lower the temperature in the headroom by regulating the cold-airflow using thumbwheel 7 (> Page 164)." (Page 164 shows a picture of the climate controls with #7 being the cold air wheel.)

Page 178, same manual, automatic climate control section:

"Only in manual air distribution mode is it possible to lower the temperature in the headroom by adding outside air using thumbwheel 7 (> Page 174) in the dashboard." (Page 174 shows a picture of the automatic climate controls with #7 being the outside air wheel.)

Apparently only the automatic climate control adjusts the cold airflow through the top center if the light sensor and outside temp sensor report a high-sunlight and cold outside temperature, respectively.

I still believe the sequence was more like: DOT says there must be an emergency trunk release by a certain date. Retrofits must be available free of charge to older cars (and there are, you can get a retrofit for your older Mercedes.) So, a switch was added that feeds into the trunk control module. The existing valet key cut the power to the trunk release (it is NOT a deadbolt) and therefore did not meet the requirements of the emergency trunk release, but this was discovered after the 2003 model year. The valet option was removed to bring the car into compliance until time when a new valet key option can be designed and fitted. Remember, any change to a vehicle takes about 2-3 year to be tested well enough to be in production, thanks to the litigious society of California (I know that NJ is nothing like here).

Again, I respect your opinion and that you have your beliefs, and I urge you to do what I would do: vote with my pocketbook. "Poor decision" is just way too subjective. Maybe in 2-3 years when everything is fixed, the car would be more in line with what you want, but at that point you may not be in the market for such a vehicle. I wish COMAND was available in my CLK55 when I bought it, but it wasn't. So when my build slot came up after a year I came on the forums and moaned about how much stuff it didn't have that I wanted: COMAND, parktronic, TV tuner, MP3 input, folding mirrors, etc. OK, actually, I didn't, I just bought the car and added those things later. On the other hand, when my SLK32 was delivered, it wasn't the way I wanted, so I just didn't buy the car, and set my sights on something else instead.

All the time cars get changed and maybe the changes are better for some people, and worse for others. Just deal with it, or make the changes you feel you need. Maybe you're missing the perspective that the changes are more appropriate for the majority of the people, of which you are not part of (like the elimination of the REST function). People on the forum will try to help you get where you want to go. But you have to have that goal. Continually complaining isn't conducive to outlining your goal, and I think you're starting to see a few members express that.

-s-

DavidNJ

Well, it certainly sounds like MB didn't implement the thumbwheel as flexibly as BMW. On the BMW it works in all modes.

If all the old trunk lock did is cut power, it should be possible to do the same with a switch. Does the key need power to open the trunk? If so, the switch couldn't go in the trunk. If not, it could go where the closing button goes or on the other side from the closing button.

The Soprano release could a have simply had its own lead to provide power to the solenoid. I will stick with poor engineering and poor product management.

My wife and I would love to buy a car with all the features we want. If BMW had just updated the 530 we would have that. No, we got the E60. If MB had just left the features alone on the E-class we would have been happily close. No, they have decontented. Other contenders aren't available in our purchase window (Lexus, Infiniti, Audi). The Cadillac STS is not really any closer than the MB to having the features we want, and in many ways it is further away.

It may be premature to say it, but we may end up sticking with this car.

David