LIONHEAD

Thinking of getting a '05 ML350. The '85 300SD with over 220,000 miles is getting towards the end of it's useful life. I like the new '06 MLs but figured we can probably get a good discount on a W163. I've driven a couple of them and they are ok. The Lexus RX seems to ride better but I'm looking for a SUV with AWD, large cargo (for business and carrying small packages) and can sit 7 peeps with price range under $40K. Your thoughts.........

Barry45RPM

I had a ML 350 as a loaner (w 700 miles on the clock). To me it felt like it was a 1984 Benz. Built like a tank, with the same amenities...nice looking from the OUTSIDE, but an unrefined, crude , OLD design mentality vehicle. Who would want a new vehicle like that today? Its been around WAY too long. Yes it was a pioneering vehicle, built to what they thought people would want in a vehicle like that, but You will have it all if you can wait for the next gen or get the Lexus. I'd wait.

scorchie

Mine was very reliable, and I think it is a good vehicle if you are looking for something that is "utility" ... there are a lot of discussions that go on that compare the M-class to other vehicles and concentrate on ride, handling, performance. But it seems most of them seem to leave out the "utility" part of the comparison. Since you, and I, and many others that do these comparisons probably have another car that suits our "luxury" or "performance" needs, I am not sure why people look for these qualities in the M-class (maybe they all have pickups already too). Nevertheless, to me what was more important that I could go to the store, buy a new 24 cf refrigerator and stick it in the back of the M-class and CLOSE THE HATCH. I also was able to bring home the four 35x12.50" mud tires from the tire mounting place, again in the back with the door closed. My G-class couldn't even carry its own tires!

I feel the handling and performance are adequate: it doesn't do the twisties like an X5, but in the mountains the power of the V8s was certainly enough to bring 5 people and all their equipment to and from the slopes. I would definitely spring for the V8 if you can, maybe even go for a used V8 over a new V6. The 2002 interior is further refined from the 2000 upgrade, and the design is similar to the previous generation of midsize MB cars (W202/W208/W210). I prefer that design as being more "teutonic" instead of what we get today, which seems to be geared to the Lexus crowd.

Anyhow, take a look and decide on those points that are important to you. It might help if you let us know your thoughts first.

-s-

LIONHEAD

You guys made some great points. Refinement vrs. Utility. I'm leaning towards utility for our needs as it's going to be a work vehicle sometimes hauling small cargo but nice enough if we need to visit clients. The S and E are for luxury occasions. The other cars I'm looking in the price range is the Lexus RX330, Volvo X90, VW Touareg, BMW X5 (maybe alittle out of the price range), and if I want to save some $$$.... just get a '05 Toyota 4Runner. I will have to check out cargo space on the RX330 as it maybe too small for my needs. If anyone have any insight on the other vehicles (pro or cons)....please let me know.

Thanks!

Omegaonne

Suv that can seat up to 7, with AWD, can carry cargo and be fuel efficent. Plus have all the goodies like leather, sound and nav and most important be reliable? Well my brother just got an 04 Honda Pilot for $26,000. They're clearing all the 04's out. I think the 05 has more power? like 260 hp instead of 240? Anyways, I don't like the ML much. But for the money and all, I would get the Honda or even the Acura MDX. Same car though.

Omegaonne

Ohh I forgot, My brother also had the RX330. He said it was ok, but he said the pilot was a lot less bumpy.

sosh

I have had 2 ML's, a 98 Ml320 and my current 02 ML500. Both have been excellent. They were reliable and offered utility and comfort. The 98 was a bit crude and lacking in features and amenities but the 02 is vastly improved in those areas. I do have a W164 on order for Aug delivery. My take on the Lexus and I have driven one is that its very economy car like. Its in fact mostly Toyota Camary. I find it too small to put 3 across the back seat, feels light and cheap and does not handle well in my estimation. However be advised that the fit and finish of the ML while acceptable is certainly not what the German mfg MB's are. I do not really know If you will be able to purchase one under 40K and if you can it certaily will not be loaded with options

cte430

My wife just got an '05 ML500 SE. Very good prices are available. Having been one of the first kids on the block with the W211 when it first came out (E500 since upgraded ) I did not want to play that game again. Plus, my wife does not have the patience I do to constantly be at the dealer getting all the bugs out.

My first choice (even though it was her car, LOL) was the Touareg. Drove the V8 and was very impressed. Gotta love that interior. Fit 'n finish as good or better than our E's. Spent some time lurking on VWvortex and that car has been a disaster quality wise. Most of the bugs should be worked out by now, but was still scared away. We also looked at the XC90 and almost went for that. With the great relationship I have with my MB dealer, we thought the ML would be the best bet for her. She's approachng 1,000 miles and so far loves it.

Like others have said, it is much more "trucky" than the other SUVs out there. Even though there is a 3rd row option, we did not get it. The ones that we saw, there is very little room. The Volvo seems to have a decent 3rd row. No 3rd in the VW as well.

khaug

I almost bought an ML 320 in '98 when they first came out. Fortunately, our dealer had a one-year waiting list and I ended up in a 4Runner. It gave me 75,000 trouble-free miles, needing only replacement of an oxygen sensor during this period. The '98 MLs were catastrophes, and succeeding models have been little better in terms of reliability, per Consumer Reports data.

We're now on our second 4Runner, an '03 LTD 4WD V8. I use it to tow my track car. It has been perfectly reliable, needing nothing at 40K miles. The power train is as smooth and quiet as an S-class Benz, and the ride and handling come close to IRS standards in spite of its solid rear axle. The only things I can fault are the quality of some of the interior materials and the Buck Rogers styling.

While Toyota products lack M-B cachet, I'd unhesitatingly compare our 4Runner to the current ML in terms of performance and general functionality. And I don't think any knowledgable person would debate which will be the more reliable or durable, or depreciate less.

lig

Oh man... the ML is my least favorite M-B. I'd rather drive a C-Class.

"Made in Alabama" just doesn't do it for me. The looks are waaay too "soccer mom" IMO.

Y2KE320

I had a 2000 ML320 and hated it, wait for the next gen coming next month looks like it's more refined. Go to germancarfan.com and get the info on the 06

topspin4hand

I pleaded with my wife to consider the ML. I think it's a very good SUV. Plus that model year doesn't have the bugs of the earlier versions, from what I've heard. The wifey unfortunately wanted the Lexus GX470, which I must admit is an excellent truck for the mid 40's price tag.

Le Burpor

As you are thinking more of 'utility' then get a Toyota Land Cruiser (different name in the US??).

Pros:
- Great for off road driving
- Not a major heart ache if it's scratched during off road or when utilizing it for heavy work
- It's BIG! Heaps of space
- Doesn't look too bad
- The V8 has good power and it's cheap!
- Comfortable interior and seats 7.
- Electronics are flawless

Cons:
- hmmm???!!!!???
- Not presitgious......

I had the Lexus LX470 which is the same body as the Land Cruiser. Great vehicle except I was always worried about taking it off road and moving a lot of stuff.

brlazar2

my e500 is in for 1st service and alot of "minor" warranty repairs.....i was given an ml500 on thursday as a loaner and then we got hit with 14" of snow here in philadelphia ( go eagles).point being that i have 5 days to road/snow test the ml.
next point, my wife drives a grand cherokee w/ high output engine and her lease is up in 2 weeks.
we have driven the acura mdx, honda pilot, volvo xc90, vw toureg, toyota 4 runner, highlander and sequoia, infiniti fx 35 and 45, new jeep w/hemi, lexus rx330 and gx470. granted, a wide range among 4 x 4s on market.
the ml fails miserably in comparison.........very very out dated design and way overpriced for what it is.
for the money, i feel acura mdx is best deal out there, although it lacks any semblance of character.........it is too generic was what wife felt. vw toureg w/v8 was great but expensive with limited storage area. 4 runner was my choice but wife felt way to masculine. in the end we put deposit on lexus gx470 as it is large w/o being huge, fast, decent gas mileage for class, interior is knocked out and lexus quality abounds.
ml just pales in comparison......instrument cluster was same as my 95 c36 amg. it is fast and it did ok in 1 ft of snow.......but after testing all above, i would say wait for next model or check out the competion......you will do better than this old design, ugly backed, out of date, 1st go round of a m-b 4x4. but thats just my opinion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

scorchie

One thing I need to mention is...

If you are ever underneath an M-class, and look at the quality that went into the chassis design (forged aluminum control arms, thick beefy sway bars, Brembo brakes on 2000+ V8s), you would see that you're getting a really good bargain (since the interior was obviously held back on to obtain the cost savings).

I fear the W164 is going to go with the "perception is 9/10ths reality" deal and have a lot of nice interior appointments and a rather cheap chassis (actually, in March I spent some time under some W164s and R-classes and would say that... yes, that has happened).

I would say that the Toureg is probably one of the best choices out there now. It's pretty tough and well built, despite reliability issues on the early ones.

Everytime I drive a Toyota 4Runner, all I can think about is "when will the brakes start vibrating and the steering wheel start shaking" because it always seems to happen in the mountains. Undoubtedly the engine is very reliable and its tough and a good deal and so on, but the interior still doesn't do it for me either.

-s-

Brav

Personally, I think the ML is one of the uglier SUVs on the road, save for the Pontiac thing. I like the Touraeg, X5, and Rover.

moa4r

I would personally hold offf until the new ML or buy a touareg. the current (old) ML is outdated.

LIONHEAD

looks like I won't be able to check them out for a couple of weeks...i tore my calf/achilles yesterday working out on the bench. maybe it will be just in time to check out the '06s.

alewifebp

I have never come away too impressed with the ML. True, I think that the off road capabilities are fine, and I'm sure that the chassis is up to the task. The demonstrations of its abilities at various MB events evoke feelings of capability.

But, having said that, who here is really going to be taking their $50K+ machine through the mud and up the side of a mountain? Most people that buy these things look for the following: they just want to be "high" up and above the road, everyone else has an SUV, so they might as well get one too, they like the idea that it "could" go off road, but it will most likely never see anyting except snow, snow capabilities, and storage capabilities.

Given that the utility that your probably require is space and snow traversal, I think that the MDX is actually a little better suited (pretty large storage space), and is beefy enough for the snow. Something like the RX is a little too soft, but just like the ML, has car tires rather than truck tires anyway.

Interior and feature wise, the current model is bad. No smart key, no dual zone climate, antiquated gauges with no MFD, one of the most horrible stereo control clusters that I have every seen (a tiny volume control all the way to the right with tiny buttons), and a laborious process to simply insert some CD's in to the changer.

I think though that the next generation ML will be much better, although I think that they are pushing them a little bit more towards the sporty side of the spectrum, as well as being smaller inside. Possibly the rumored ML-X will give you more space and a more capable off roader.

Needless to say, I would definately wait.

klenbore

I had two ML's a 2000 ML320 and a 2003 ML500 Inspiration. I traded the ML500 for an 04 E500 4matic. The 00 ML320 had lots of issues even had a MB rep get involved due to all the problems I had with it. I went through four, yes that's four, MCS head units in the ML320. Had lots of fit and finish issues with it too.

While most of the problems were non-existent in the 03 ML500. Both ML's had unacceptable wind noise when the sunroof was open. You didn't pass too many gas stations in the ML500 either, best it made was 14 MPG.

That being said, both rigs were great on bad (snow, ice, wet) roads. It was actually scary how well they handled as you didn't notice how bad the driving conditions actually were. You're driving position was just about perfect. Taller than a sedan but not to tall that wifey can't get in without side running boards. We miss the spacious room of the ML as the E is rather tight for back seat passengers. The cargo capacity was was great too. Plenty of room with the rear seats down.

Admittedly, the ML was a more practical vehicle for our neck of the woods (Montana), but the E500 is a true Mercedes when it comes to fit, finish, handling, etc, etc.......

Just my 2-cents worth.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Sorry L.H.... No opinion on what SUV to get, Just hope your O.K and back on your feet soon.....

hotmalma

have you considered the new M Class coming in a few months?

LIONHEAD

Thanks Bud......I guess the only good thing is it's dead of winter here in Chicago and rather have it happen now then Spring/Summer.


Thanks guys for all the input. Once I can get to the dealers again I'll have to check all of them out.

Ervin TBH

I would buy a used Land Cruiser. It's not particularly high tech, but it was one of my favorite trucks. Absolutely bullet-proof!

I had an MDX, and although it was a nice drive it just didn't look good to me. My wife loved it, though.

glojo

Hi Lionhead,
It is a pity that the estate is not a popular vehicle in the US as I believe it is an excellent, versatile presentable car, that even comes with the 4Matic option. However if it has some sort of weird 'image' then that is a problem.

The new M-class has had better reviews compared to the ML. It's annoying that the new vehicle does NOT have the latest 350 engine that you will soon be seeing in the E-class.

If you are thinking of buying new, then I would prefer the new model compared to the old even though there might be a 'few' bugs to iron out. The new vehicle evidently has much more room over its predessor, and that was one of my many complaints about the ML.

On our news we have seen some startling\scary demonstrations in the US of people who do not like SUV's. Graffitti in driveways, harrassing housewifes taking their children to school and even damaging these vehicles? Is this scare mongering on behalf of the journalists, or is there a problem that you might accidentally get involved in?

Regards and good luck,
John