http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/imp...rts-sedan-5th/

Again, another somewhat lukewarm review. But bear in mind, that TTAC has had lots of positive reviews of MBs in the past. I think that they were just a bit disappointed that the W212 isn't that vast an improvement. On the other hand, it remains steadfast as a good, basic, comfortable highway cruiser. Nothing terribly exciting but certainly nothing horrible, either.

I took one out (550) for an extensive run the other day, thanks to my dealer. I like the W212 in many ways, but it's not a dramatic enough change from the 2009 model. At least not enough to change cars for me. If I were coming from something like a 2003-2006 model, then yes, very likely. But I'm personally going to wait until the first or second facelift (also a bit safer to wait and get any potential bugs worked out; hey, let's never forget the 2003 MBs ), or until the next real motor change version. And when the car has had some real world road time and hopefully some more substantial changes.

Or move up to a CL63. Or over to a M5. I'm not sure where MB is heading these days, we'll see.

p.s., owners here should login to TTAC and post their own comments. Lots of mixed (and some uninformed) comments are posted on the review.

 

Wow, another last place finish for a new E-Class?

I saw a couple 212's in the past couple of days, ironically one today cut me off (the car probably felt the negative vibes ), the rear and rear 3/4 views are really the cars worst, also I never really realized how large and bulky the taillights are. Also interesting how quite a few reviewers are saying how they appreciate the styling of the previous model as well.

Since this Thread is about a review of mid-size Luxury Sedans, I feel this should be appropriate: I've been following the F10 5-Series for a while now, and am pretty confident it will EAT the competition alive, and will really set a wide gap between it and the E-Class.... IF BMW can get the interior right this time.

As well, I've found out some interesting stuff about why the Bangle generation looked so sloppy and awkward. I've heard due to the Rover debacle, BMW was flat out broke, and the R&D for the Bangle cars were so low, proportions weren't perfected, and styling wasn't able to have its full "vision" realized, resulting in messy cars.

This new gen seems to be really refining things, and the proportions of this 5-Series are EXCELLENT. As of right now, I'm planning on waiting until the M-Sport packages come out (probably mid-2011-2012 unfortunately), and grabbing a 550 or 535 with it. I'll keep my E too as it'll be worth peanuts by then anyway.

 

Yep, the F10 is definitely going to step up the ante. BMW's going with FI now (those twin turbos sitting in the valley are a unique design and will allow the M5 to exist with an 8 instead of a 10; cooling is the tricky part, I'd think. )



MB is going to have to go to FI, too. And once the W212 is out this year, the next big change will be no more NA motors in the E63 and probably 550 (maybe 350, too?) And that's partly the reason why I'd sit tight on thinking about a W212 E63 right now (as much as I like NA motors.) After the F10 is released, the W212 will play catch up and then we should see some substantial changes going on.

I'm waiting in anticipation for the F10, too. The kidney grills look so much better now, too; the proportions are closer to the grills of the great looking E38. The M5 (or the M package 550i) will be enticing for sure.

 

Agreed ^^.

That white looks great too, actually it looks like a coupe in front of that 5-GT.

Yeah, I even heard the 550 will be a TT V8, so things should be interesting. And I have no doubts M-B will up the ante for the entry motor, and AMG version as well in the coming years.

Agreed about the kidney grilles. I love that I see a lot of E39 in this car as well, and that whole green-house and hoffmeister kink are very "classic BMW" IMO, which is great as I love how BMW took a step back and went "traditional" instead of "space age" for this car.

Can't wait. BTW I'm gonna wager the early M5's will be reliability plagued, especially with those cooling issues, we'll see if that leaks down to the lower models.... If so that'll be a huge help for M-B in staying competitive.

 

is that a 5GT in the back??? i feel the new 5er will be closer to the 3 series than 5GT...

 

Yeah, it is.

From what I've read, from "insiders", it's supposed to look like a hybrid between the current 3'er, 7'er, and outgoing 5'er. Many say they see a lot of E90 3 in it. I'm not big on the E90, so we'll see how the final product comes out.

What I find very interesting about this car, and as many others have noted, is how much E46 3-Series, and E39 5-Series influence this car seems to have in it, especially proportions-wise, as it seems BMW have really ditched the funky proportions of the initial "Bangle-Era" cars.

 

1 out of 5 in the handling dept ? 5th place ? This review appears to be total BS and reeks of Mercedes Benz hate.
If the W212 E class was given a 1 out of 5 for handling, Than what does that say about the handling of the W211 E class ? Would he rate the W211 E ?
0 out of 5 ? I'd love to see his review on the previous E350..
Every magazine that I have read explains how the new E is much improved over the old E in steering feel and handling. Car n Driver <- the biggest BMW homer even mentioned how the new E is much closer to BMW like steering and is " on a lesser dose of Vicoden " I drive the new E550 and can tell you that the car handles just fine, its perfectly balanced and handling is a complete non issue. Just reading some of the comments after the article, you can just sense the hate in some of these people. Vicious comments, LoL.. Nobody is forcing any one to drive a Mercedes Benz product.
I've seen a review of the new E550 vs the BMW 550I and the new V8 Jag.. The E550 comes out on top in 1st place. Is the 350 that much worse ?

 

I red original Car&Driver test, where E-Class was on 5th position.
I'm not a big fan of 2010 E class, but those guys comparison is full of BS.
They comparing 6 cyl E Class to another 4 cars, which all are 8 cyl cars.
Why they don't compare E550 instead of E350.
Whatever design is - MB is still a great car and simple test drive proves it very easy.

 

The problem with TTAC (although some people might argue that it's the good thing about TTAC), is that the reviews are not written by an editorial board like Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc.. They are individual reviews (in fact, TTAC was started by disgruntled C+D people.)

The argument people use in favor of TTAC is that they don't take any auto mfg's ad revenue. They say whatever they feel like about cars and the car industry. Some of it's pretty scathing.

The review is not a comparison of the past E Classes, and the reviewer was reviewing this specific car and not in reference to any previous E Class (except for the design mention.) It's an "import sports sedan comparison." Today Michael Freed did the review of the 4th place car, the Lexus GS350. (The Infiniti M35x was 6th place.)

For the record, in today's review Lexus also gets 1/5 in handling. MBs and Lexuses are definitely "softer" cars. No one can argue that. Hey, the MB got 5/5 for "ride." It's for certain the most comfortable! That's what the E Class is all about, comfort. But a canyon tosser, it's not. Sorry. MBs never were and still are not. You have to make a compromise between comfort and handling, no way around it.

There are plenty of TTAC MB reviews (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cat...mercedes-benz/) They are good and bad (they also do some reviews on older classic MBs.) Michael Karesh (a member here and owner of True Delta) also did a review of the W212 on TTAC last month. There's a TTAC reviewer who is in the MB camp and especially drunk on AMG koolaid. Jay Shoemaker's reviews are relatively positive, esp the AMGs.

imho, MBs have never really been a true enthusiast's car in the public's 'motosports' sense, despite a well-established history of racing. It's always been a different demographic. Sensible, Euro cars with interesting technology and COMFORT. Well built (at least in the past) and built for autobahn cruising. And in the USA, a certain status which is really unfortunate as that creates a strange kind of owner and some odd stereotypes; "old man's car" etc.. Remember that classic Audi series of commercials, Meet the Beckers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfXqt0PuHQk

 

Oh wise, reliable K-A! So wide will be the gap that I bet you will feel the need to just roll around on the dealer's lot typing as fast as you can on your mobile device all in CAPS - I TOLD YOU SO!!! FOOLS! CURVES! REFINED! EAT! IMO!

It will be a sure victory for K-A! A Blitzkrieg fueled by perfectly proportionate kidney beans in hoffmeister kink sauce...and a sore loss for all of us owners/prospective owners of pathetic W212s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjYdwsX3j4w

In K-A's world BMW or Audi or Jaguar are allowed certain moves and MB is not. This time he says "I love how BMW took a step back and went "traditional" instead of 'space age' for this car."

Why so much love for tradition Master K-A? Haven't you trashed MB's nod to the 80s in at least 200 of your recent posts?

 

Dude dont even bother with that tool.. He's been owned so many times already,its just not even worth it.. He is the 1st person to dive into any negative post about the W212, it actually helps him mentally, he feels alittle better about driving the old car.. Like I have said before ---->

K-A is like a woman who is constantly complaining about Versace clothing but yet she spends all her time in Versace Boutiques.. The guy is a trainwreck, he cant afford the new car so anything negative about the W212 will make him feel better about his old car.. Hes a huge fan of the W211 but yet he camps out and posts the same comments millions of times on the W212 board, hes just a Troll.. Not sure why he wont spread his love of the W211 on the W211 board with the rest of the W211ers.. Dude is sick.

 

LEt's not discuss finacial situation of each other. I think it's not right...and BTW..you never know who you talking to at this board...

 

You think what you want and I will think what I want.. KA is the biggest ***** bag on these boards, he's been called out not just by me but by countless members on the board. Thanks for your input though.

 

1) The E550 blows away the V8 BMW 550I and new XF V8 JAG. 1st place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGleo9EgCYc


2) I cant really understand all this talk about bad handling ? Every magazine I have read speaks about the inprovment in handling in the W212. My E550 is a stud and feels tight, im not sure about the 350 but i would imagine it would be the same ?

- From Edmunds

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...leId=147866#39

"Precise steering; composed highway ride; torquey V8 matched to a flexible seven-speed; modern, well-built cabin"

"The bigger improvement, though, is in the E550's steering, which remains a rack-and-pinion setup with a hydraulic power steering pump. It still feels light and still mutes out most road feel, but there's a level of accuracy that wasn't here before"


- From Car n Driver

" New styling and better road manners bring the E-class closer to just right"

" Driving the latest E-class reveals a familiar character, but it doesn’t take long to realize that something is different. Steering accuracy is better and more BMW-like. Some of the sluggishness of the previous E-class’s helm has been ousted and replaced with more responsive tuning. Consequently, the car feels more alive."


- Automobile

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...dan/index.html

"The steering again uses electrohydraulic assist, but is significantly retuned. Whereas the previous car was somewhat relaxed in its responses to the helm, the new E is far more alert to even small steering inputs. A slightly increased effort level, which is also more consistent than before, keeps the steering from seeming nervous. And the fat steering wheel rim is great to grip. The chassis tuning is very well done overall"


- Roan n Track

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=8028

"Thanks to all this technology, solid handling and even a design that we're warming to, the E550 remains a leader in its class and even raises the bar."

"The 2010 Mercedes-Benz E550 hugs the road with steely grace and unflappable confidence, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a more superb boulevard cruiser"



- Car n Driver 2nd drive
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...n-second_drive

" The big change in the driving experience is a shift away from the somewhat sluggish and slightly disconnected steering to a more connected and responsive rack - not to the level of BMW tactility but a move upward. Similarly, the E550 we drove had a retuned Airmatic suspension that was more agile than we can recall in previous E-classes "

 

Drove a W212 E3504matic today. Nice car. Much flatter cornering than mine. Not nearly as resistant to turning. Quieter, more solid feeling. The only disappointment is that the steering wasn't completely driveline vibration free. I'm extraordinarily sensitive to this and I could feel a little bit of the 4matic or engine vibration coming through the steering. Which if I ever spend that kind of money on a car will be totally absent. Overall a nicer car than my current one. Liked the interior. Still don't like the front end. The rest of the car is ok.

 

It might be too soon to say but even with this camo the new 5 series does not strike me as something unusual. The current one is boring (really it is awkward) and judging by the "yawn" BMW Grand Tourismo the F10 might not impress after all. It does look like they are bringing around comfy seats though.

Here are some links to the latest spy photos....nothing striking so far.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/09/01/sp...ing-more-skin/

In fact on this pic the front air intake looks bizarre

http://www.worldcarfans.com/10910212...in/lowphotos#0

Interestingly enough if you read comments people dog the car just the same way the new E was dogged. GS, funny butt...etc.

 

I think we as M-B owners, have a different perspective or care for handling. I don't mind the handling in my car at all, yet never really care to push it (although I admit I love the dialed-in feeling I get when driving a 5-Series), however I thought the 212 I drove handed great.... For me.

You typing drunk again? Que? BMW is allowed certain moves? Have you read anything I've said about the Bangle-era'd Bimmers? Worse than anything I've said about the W212. I give respect and credit where it's due, and BMW is getting it right this time around.

And YOU sir are my personal favorite. You boys are what keep it fun for me to come back here. Funny how the 212 indeed seems to be attracting a certain type of buyer, as proven here by.... well, you, for one.

Discussing someone's self worth based on the car they drive, or coming to a *Car Enthusiasts* Board and thinking someone thinks a new car = a nicer car, is very telling, not to mention.... um.... "interesting". All I gotta say is, I wish I had parents as giving as yours, as a $50K first car sure beats that Mustang GT I got (and here I thought *I* was spoiled).

 

Agreed. BTW, O/T, and I respect and totally understand if you decline to answer this (I'm not into giving any personal details on a Message Board), but AEG Group, as in the gigantour Entertainment megamonster?

 

I could be wrong, but what I think is going on is that when the car is compared to the E Class of the past then there is a glowing report of the much awaited improvements in handling (esp away from MB's well-known "numb steering" phenomenon.)

In other words, there has been improvement which is much appreciated.

But, when compared to what's out there (almost specifically BMW and it's more precise steering), there is still complaining going on.

I think it's unfortunate for a couple of reasons. First, MBs are the ideal comfort car rather than the "sports sedan toss it into the corners" kind of car. As much as I like BMW's steering/handling, I really appreciate MB's softer ride. In fact, I bought the E63 over the M5 because the M5 was kind of a pain in the butt (literally) in daily Los Angeles traffic. The E63 is much smoother all around (even Jeremy Clarkson admitted that, and Top Gear claimed the E63 as the better overall choice.)

I have a Porsche that gives me the precise "toss it into the corners" ride and the E63 is a perfect compliment. If I didn't have it, maybe I'd rather have the M5. I dunno.

That the W212 feels tighter and responsive over the previous model is a good thing. But I'd actually hate to see it get too stiff that the comfort ride is compromised. MB has to walk a fine line here.

Interestingly, the Edmunds review of the W211 E63 (and TTAC's review of it) claimed the handling and steering to be superior over the W211 E55. With each model, MB has been pretty good about tweaking the chassis for improvement (yet still keeping it comfy on real world crappy streets.)

The E class is no sports car chassis and it will never be. And not really a "sports sedan" either. And that's a good thing, imho. I applaud MB for doing just the right tweaks and keeping the E Class as a great mid-sized comfort cruiser. Let's hope it's never exactly like a BMW.

Hey, in an ideal world we all need multiple cars But the MB is a good in-between and a comfortable DD. Like Goldilocks said, "just about right."

But try to save room in the garage someday for a nice, stiff handling sports car or sports sedan/coupe, too.

 

Agreed. I hope M-B never cave and make it handle as good as a BMW, they obviously can if they want to, it's a "choice" thing on their part. I bought an M-B over a BMW, because aside from the looks and interior, etc. I liked the plusher and smoother ride.

I've driven an M3 Sedan and it felt ridiculous, every little reflector thingy in the lane dividers would make the car feel like it's falling apart when you switched lanes. Like you said, always a compromise, you can't have the best of both worlds essentially.

 

Hey, I didn't notice that until now. I've done work for AEG (Anschutz.) Their headquarters are here in LA. The poster is from New York. I've never dealt with the NY office, however. I think it's midtown Manhattan(?)

 

Nice. Yeah I noticed it relatively recently myself and it got me curious, lol.

Yeah dunno about the NY Offices but I know some people and acquaintances who have worked with/for them. That company is a machine, so many of our most prominent entertainment is courtesy of them, yet about no one in the world knows it. Like the ultimate "behind the scenes" player making all the big moves.

 

I agree that MB builds a much smoother riding car. My wife and I have had four BMW's and she still drives a 335i cpe. They are fun to drive but after a while they can get to you. The horrible run flat tires, stiff steering to park, and a transmission that is never sure wich gear to be in at low speeds. Unless you have sports seats, the interior is mediocre. On the plus side,they have a great I 6cyl.
Reviewers base their opinions on a one day play date and that is why BMW scores so well. Many of them wouldn't find the car so pleasant over a period of 12 months.

 

After test driving an E350 the other day I would pretty much agree with every rating.
And as we go into 2010 I would have to agree with the last place finish for my M35X. What seemed so cool (and relatively cheap) four years ago now does feel kind of stale, old and a little underwhelming.

Shane D

 

Here's another comparison between the E550, BMW 550i and Jag XF Premium. They rate the E550 highest overall. This is the review that actually got me to test drive the E550 when I started looking at replacing my 550i.

Having driven both I can say that while it certainly doesn't corner or go throught the "twisties" like the BMW, it is in no way a slouch. In my opinion it strikes a very good balance handling/driveabililty and comfort and after driving it several times I decided that this is what I was looking for after driving the 550i for 3 years. I like to drive fairly aggressively (even at my advanced age) and I never would have ordered the car if it didn't have strong driving capabilities (in my opinion obviously).

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/5-seri...f-premium.html