I think the new 12 SLK350 is out, but it may have a different exhaust set up.

 

Sorry

They love the E350 and it makes sense for them, classy but not too, room for four and shows they're doing well, but not too well (although some around here earn 7 figures).

 

Baby Ferrari Howl from a MB V-6, they must have been drunk on the free booze at a MB press junket.

Have you seen those auto press junkets, how can any self-respecting journalist be objective after partaking in all the luxuries car companies are throwing at them in exotic locales.

 

It hurts because it's true here in LA too... and they're not even the successful ones. I know agents who live in $2M+ houses.

 

My former realtor sells between $35-$65mm per year, she drives a new 528 for work, who know's what she's closet driving...

 

This is not directed at you RJC or anyone in particular, but an "open rant" of sorts: I think some of you (us) guys get your senses of reality warped by your (our) perceptions of those we may surround ourselves with, or the fact that we really pay attention to, and analyze the ownership demographic of these cars.

I saw an E-Class next to an S-Class at a Dealer yesterday, the E has a more dynamic shape, a more modern exterior, more aggressive but more powerful, yet it's smaller and doesn't wear the "S" badge. I judge a design by the design, and I've always found the good M-B Sedans to stack up next to anything on the road, whilst maintaining a timeless approach, and this one isn't any different (continues the trend).

My W211 E350 still "impressed" others when it needed to, and this was in 2010. I don't surround myself with snotty pretentious folk who judge a persons worth based on what they drive, and I certainly don't with people who would think a $60K car is for "the commoners". The W212's regularity is a testament to its popularity, which is a testament to how well executed it is. To me, M-B is the industries design leader, and if you know the brand, you know they don't pull punches in regards to price point. In fact, I usually think the C and E's are the most balanced and refined Sedan designs of each generation (not always, but especially lately). I actually have a (relatively Celebrity) friend who owns an Aston Martin Martin V8 Vantage, and every time he sees my car, he can't stop complimenting it. He's not a huge car enthusiast, so he doesn't notice every Benz on the road, but when he see's a nice, clean, Benz, he obviously takes notice of the design. Again, understated, yet commands respect: The classical Mercedes motto.

But yes, the E Sedan (and Coupe) are mostly driven by boring ole' woman. Most any non behemoth Luxury Sedans (or SUV's) are. Kind of annoying for us enthusiasts who actually care about these cars, yes, however, it's better than the "fun" Camaro (for example, again) crowds common demo.

Excuse the long rant. But not many things annoy me more than automotive pretension. To me, there's little more boring than a non Turbo, base Porsche 911. Every "old balding Dr. with a chip on his shoulder" has one. I was considering one, but the W212 to me is a better design, and better built, not to mention, absolutely crushes it in interior quality and luxury. At that point, it becomes a matter of who cares about how much quicker the Porsche handled, or speed, or how many of them are on the road.

Right now, there's a guy on the Bimmer Forums "clowning" the F10 as an "anonymous car", hailing his 5-Series GT (maybe the ugliest thing to come out of Germany) at something cooler, because it's more "rare". In many aspects of art, rarity is a sign of quality, however, in the automotive world, if it ain't extremely expensive, and it's rare, then it just isn't popular and/or well received, and if it sells like hotcakes and is common, well, then, it's usually just that good.

I agree that Auto Rags are embarrassingly inadequate in many regards. However, the 350 current V6 motor actually "sounds good for a V6", which is kind of like lipstick on a pig, but it is what it is, lol. I've heard some vids on Youtube that showed them having a pretty V8-esque throaty sound. Still, to me, anything less than a V8 rumble shouldn't be uncorked.

 

The 350's seem to be driven more often by women, the 550's by more men. My former realtor that drives the new BMW 528 earns more than I do and I respect her for that; it's interesting she chooses a car like the 528 to use for work as she's doing the opposite of what you complain about (snotty pretentious people who no doubt make up the majority her client list) but no doubt for the same obvious reasons so many high end female realtors like the E350's for work. In both of my companies we are often judged by our clients on where we live and what kind of car we may drive, in many cases with life, perception becomes the reality which is most unfortunate. Comparing an E350 sedan to a 911/911S/Turbo is like apples and hand grenades. I will agree the E is a better built car than the current 911's in the interiors but that's about it. I would also say the fugly Panamera has a better built/engendered interior than the E but the 911 in any version will drive circles around an e350 and retain it's resale value quite robustly to boot. The 911's shape is far more timeless and pure than an e class will ever be providing they don't screw up the soon to be released 991 in March 2012, and from what I've seen from the pics they haven't while also upgrading the interior substantially and still keeping the classic 911 theme. I also love the interior of the S/CL class, it's a giant leap ahead of the 212's, as it should be...

 

I've rarely, if ever, seen (or noticed) an E550 to be honest, so the E350's that I see are driven by whoever buys E-Classes (mid aged women, mature aged businessmen, with the occasional youngin' who's enjoying and riding a Luxo Cruiser (raises hand ). At the same time, I never really look for the badge, and both cars look identical anyway.

Of course, the 911 and E350 are very different cars. Nothing is more timeless than a 911, so naturally that car has that going for it even more-so than what I perceive to be one of the other worlds most timeless offerings: M-B Sedans. I look at a W126, or W109, and they captivate me. Hence my affinity for what it currently is. However, on my own "checklist", I'll say that the 911 outperforms the E350, and that's all that it has going for it VS the E, taking styling out of the equation, as I think both do what they're intended, phenomenally.

I choose to surround myself with humble people, even the wealthier friends of mine, are humble. Therefore, I don't think anyone I know has ever seen my car as anything generic, or "common", and the same goes for my previous W211 and at the time 7 year old W220. What I love about M-B's (at least the non Sports Cars) are that they're conservative and understated enough to go unnoticed, and can blend in, but when one gets up close to one, or if the cars presence captures their attention, the car steps up and shows off what it's made of. It's been like this for ages, and that's why M-B Sedans always command respect, regardless of age.

Anyway, I don't know how we got to where we are in this Thread. But I'm clearly just talking/intellectualizing/philosophizing for the hell of it.

 

I have no idea what the gender statistics are for the E-class, but it is a mass produced, basic car by most standards regardless of engine variant, with the exception of the E-63. It's a solid car, but hardly one to obsess about.

There are far more E350's than E550's on the road, and this may have nearly as much to do with availability as a representation of production as it does with price. Perhaps MB understands the formula quite well. Example, of the 8,000+ total available in the US channel today, less than 900 of them are 550's. Heck, there are more S550's than E550's produced and sitting on the lots and available currently, so it can't just be about price. I think the majority of the E-drivers view the cars as a decent all around choice and they spend more time driving them and less time worrying about the typical topics posted in a forum.

Come to an "enthusiast" forum such as this, however, and you would get a very different idea, but it is a very, very tiny sampling. Look at the total member activity in the 212 section at any given time, and it is apparent that very few owners seem to care. Take away the "fluffer" posts written to get a rise out of the few active participants, and the section would be nearly dead. Without those posts to stir the pot occasionally, there probably wouldn't be enough activity to generate sufficient advertiser interest to keep the site alive.

Drive more, obsess less and enjoy it for what it is...

 

I was told MB has been producing more E350s for the US due to price (making the car more affordable therefore reaching more potential customers), high fuel prices and CAFE concerns.

 

No doubt those are contributing factors, but in the simplest of their business initiatives, they are going to produce and inventory product relative to their sales potential and perceived demand within any given market. Hence, in the US, more E350's followed by S550's followed by E550's (sedans).

I include S550 in the mix because it isn't strictly price point or fuel economy/Cafe driven, as the S400 gets 26% more fuel economy and has a base price less than the S550, but in that range of the market, price point becomes less of a driver and supply is greater based on what the consumer demands, S550> S400. Supply meets demand.

When looking at the numbers overall, I still suspect the delay in production of the '12 212's is in some part due to the heavy inventory of 11's yet digested in the channel. It should be a great time to buy!!

 

The main stigma attached with being an M-B Enthusiast is that most enthusiasts are in it for mostly braggart reasons, to Lease and impress, then re-start the cycle. We have a cool little group here, but it's a much smaller, and/or more passive and logic (as opposed to emotional) based group than other Forums. For example, the 5-Series Forum has a bunch of people who talk all the time about how they have the "most beautiful car on the road", etc.

About "something to obsess about", as car enthusiasts, we obsess about what we enjoy. Just because the common E (and S, and C, and any Benz) demographic is women who want to impress their neighbors and appear affluent without being gaudy or showy (although I know many people who DO consider M-B as too "showy/flashy", and that's how Audi's demographic is growing), doesn't discredit the car or design on its own. In fact, this design looks intended for anything but middle aged women, it's extremely masculine, stately, and aggressive. At the same time, "common" depends on what neighborhood you're in. I don't know how much some of you guys get out from your own neighborhoods, but $60K cars certainly aren't "common" in all neighborhoods.

So what makes a car "worthy to obsess about"? Does it have to be a 2-door? A death trap? Fast? Rare? Impractical? Uber expensive? People on Camaro/Mustang/Charger Forums talk about their sub $30K common cars like they will take them with them to their graves? Are they morons because their cars aren't worthy of obsession? Hell, there are more C-Classes in the world than E-Classes, and the C-Class boards are the most "obsessed", especially over the stodgier outlook on car enthusiasm of the higher prices boards.

That's the kind of sentiment that bothers me in car enthusiasm. I know people who are enthusiasts of Camry's, and have very clean examples, that actually do look attractive and cared for, and I respect their level of enthusiasm. And although they have a car that sells bajillions every month, you take notice of theirs.

The obsession with "rarity" of being a valid reason to love your car is proof that stodgy and pretentious stereotypes of Luxury Car owners like M-B would exist. Most people in the world would dream to have an E-Class, or C-Class. If the owner demographic or non rarity of a car bothers one, then that's their own inner issue. Life is much nicer when you live it how you like it, without worrying about what others do.

 

Life is much nicer when you live it how you like it, without worrying about what others do.[/quote]

K-A, this was my point exactly. To the typical forum enthusiast, it is all, or perhaps only, about 0-60 and HP. I suggest the E-class may not be the ideal car for that type of enthusiast at all regardless of those two measurements. One would think a performance enthusiast would equally care about all the performance numbers, inclusive of braking and skid pad, but those generally aren't discussed as often and they are not where the E shines. However, these measurements included are part of what separates the E from being a real sport sedan versus an overall very good sedan regardless of HP or engine variant.

Is M-B targeting the performance enthusiast with the E? I don't think so, and their formula seems to work as they are selling a lot of cars. Based on sales numbers, the typical E consumer does not care about track numbers because they have no intention of taking the car to the track. The masses don't seem to buy these cars with any disillusion as to what it is versus what it isn't...they purchase the overall package. Ask the typical E consumer about horsepower and/or fuel economy, and they might even answer with "enough or not enough, or even I don't know" because those measurements are not the top of their buying criteria or they would likely opt for another car to begin with.

While it is the majority population on an enthusiast's board who is typically obsessed with the numbers, it is the majority consumer population who M-B targets when building cars. That is a much bigger group and more reflective of their audience overall. The dollar vote is what counts versus the opinion vote on a board. The consumer's dollar vote is what builds sales. M-B builds the ratio of cars they do to address the consumer audience and demand, not the enthusiast board audience and opinion.

 

Exactly. I don't understand this kind of comparing at all. Screw the interior of a 911, I want to drive it and not look at the dashboard (well, except the tach.)

Buy the car you like to drive and forget about the other intangible crap that's associated with it. In the end they're commodities just like anything else. They're built and marketed to sell to various demographics. Pick what works for you at any given moment in your life and call it a day.

 

Very much agreed. I guess I should rephrase my initial statement, which is when hearing people talk about track times on an E board, I find it kind of funny and boring, even considering the V8 variants are fire breathing. Just not what these cars are intended for, and it engages the cars in a "battle" that they weren't designed for. The E is a fine and in some cases, very good performer, but that's just icing on the cake, and there will always be another car that goes faster/handles better for a cheaper price. However, there may be things that this car does that maybe nothing else on the road does as well, regardless of how expensive they are, etc. etc.

However, on a Porsche, or Mustang board, obviously the topics, etc. are gonna very contrasted from an E-Class Board. Going on a Mustang board and talking about interior fit and finish will also discredit the cars very intent.

 

preach it!

 

 

But isn't that what a car enthusiast is apt to do...talk about one's cars performance...when we read car mags or look at video reviews, the main stats we look at are 0-60 times, handling g's, slalom times, passing ability...a car's safety, gas mileage, comfort, reliability (although all important) fall under the boring category. Maybe because I originally intended on getting the C63 (ideally M3 coupe), my stance is a bit slanted toward performance and performance/modding discussions, otherwise I wouldn't even be on this site and my car would be stock, unfortunately, reality requires I have a more practical car. Discussing performance (however unjustified) is also good for the site as I'm pretty sure a thread discussing one's car at the track or some high-speed run would get more views than one asking for a part number. Maybe it's the nature of the marque as I'm sure there's some thread on a bimmer blog about taking their 325 wagon on the track.

 

^Well said^

I think in many instances today's buyer is looking pretty much for it all; performance, MPG's, comfort, handling etc...my God even a Camry's V6 has been 268 hp for years now

 

Yes, well said!^^ This has been a really interesting thread. The waxing philosophy and class warfare stuff is always intriguing. The fun of being an "enthusiast" is brand loyalty. Take all the badges off the cars and then try to have a discussion. ha. I mean, how else do you justify spending sixty or a hundred plus grand on a car? Especially a BMW or Benz, which invariably runs forever but with a nice big price tag for all the electronic repairs and other stuff that breaks. Right? Because all the damn thing has to do is get you from point A to point B. Unfortunately for us, we actually enjoy the process of getting from A to B... pocket book be damned.

In my view, it's not logical to compare the brands unless they fit in the same category. The 911 stands alone - sure, compare the Turbo S to the SL65 AMG... but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Compare a Jaguar XKR to an E550 cabrio, still doesn't make sense. It's very simple. The Porsche is a Porsche, the Ferrari is a Ferrari, a Lambo is a Lambo... apart from those heralded brands (among others), you can say the Jag is a poor man's Aston, the camaro is a poor man's vette, the BMW is for people that like road feel and handling, the benz is for people that like luxury. Audi is for people that live in snowy areas. American cars are crappy, Asian cars are vanilla/commoditized versions of the previously stated (non-elite) brands.

Seriously though, most of the interesting conversations center around the evolution in the brands in terms of performance, style/design, quality, etc. I think BMW is trying to morph into something they aren't... Mercedes is in this awkward in-between phase... and Audi is managing to create enthusiasts somehow with the same design they've had since the dawn of time. For example, I was a BMW loyalist for years because I loved the handling, the lower price point, the interior quality. But now I'm a Benz fan because the E550 Coupe is the most perfect car for <$65k in the world (duh) and BMW's have become insanely expensive and oh, the interiors suck.

One day, when I'm old and bald and divorced, I'll buy a Porsche. Can't wait! ;P

 

Whew...only took the paramedics 1/2 hour to revive me after your comments on the E coupe. I've been trying to convince you of it's stunning looks for over a year. Thank You K-A.

 

Trust me, buy one now when you're young and are more willing to take it to the track and really drive the car the way it was meant to be driven. Join the PCA so you can do DEs with instructors. These cars were meant (and built) to be driven hard. Having one when you're closer to being a geriatric is a waste of a good car. Save the Mercedes for when your kidneys need a soft ride and so you don't accidentally pee on the seats.

It's when I drive my MB that I feel like an old man.......

 

Agree completely...especially your views about the directions BMW, MB and Audi are following. Have you seen the latest Edmunds Inside Line comparo of the 2011 BMW 535i and 2012 Audi A6, A6 made the 535i look like an E350. I always thought the BMW 5 as the highwater mark for sports sedans. I always slanted toward MB because I like a little luxury for my 50k-60k daily driver.

I imagine the E550 coupe is very nice and quick. I trackable version of this car like the BMW 335is would be awesome. My sister-in-law has the E350 coupe and being based on the C platform, which I think is great, the drives like a sports car and not a luxo-crusier, very tight and firm. Not like the E sedans.

Ultimately for me, the best all-around car is the M3, I would choose this over a Porsche anyday

 

thanks.. and yes, the E550 is very quick and i love drifting and launching it (two things it does fairly well). it's more of a cruiser than a track animal, obviously, but i live in atlanta and i have to drive about 45,000 miles no matter where i go and it always includes some highway time. so having the cruise comfort mode and the tight sport mode is perfect.

i went down the M3 path before and ... my back hurt. it didn't offer anything except track quality driving, which is great - if that's what you want. i decided to go a different direction and, for example, talk on bluetooth and have bolstered, very comfy seats.

 

i literally laughed out loud.. very funny . i've driven every car i have had quite hard (i've had eight so far) and i think the e-coupe is one of the "youngest" of the benz family. especially the 550. i can scare the bejesus out of my passengers and asian ladies in their minivans, or i can cruise through town low profile - "ish". plus no stigmas! haha. such as, bmw fan boy, over-compensator, "look at my porsche" type vibes. not that i care what people think, but i hate that ****. if i got a side car for the track, it would most likely be a cayman r type.

anyway, i'm basically an old man in a young man's body thanks to being lucky. cheers to three sets of rear tires by 30k miles!