220S

Just in time to compete with the new F10, and finally a real change in the W212 drivetrain. Sorry to those who just bought a W212, V8 or a new E63, but patience is a virtue. Also a new motor for the E350: if not a TT V6 in the E350, then a new n/a with DI.

Anyway, it was about time. But if you are into n/a motors, you did okay and now is the last chance to pick one up. Otherwise DI and FI is here, as with all the mfgs now. BMW and MB will be on a level playing field. The choice will be really about chassis, design, etc..


"Dec 15, 2009
A new family of engines will emerge from Mercedes-Benz starting late next year that will rely heavily on turbocharging and direct injection to deliver gains in power, efficiency and CO2 reduction. That's the word from Dr. Thomas Weber, member of the board at Daimler AG Group Research & Mercedes-Benz Cars Development, who spoke to Inside Line at an event here held for the unveil of the 2011 Mercedes-Benz E-Class convertible.

The new engine class, dubbed MoVe for modular V6 and V8s, will power a raft of new products that will begin to arrive late next year.

Dr. Weber said that all eight-cylinder Mercedes-Benz models will be turbocharged by the 2011 model year and that includes the high-performance AMG variants. The current 6.2-liter normally-aspirated V8 designed and built by AMG will be replaced by a 5.5-liter, twin-turbo V8 with direct injection.

Non-AMG Mercedes-Benz models will get either a slightly smaller-displacement twin-turbo V8, a twin-turbo V6 or a normally-aspirated 3.5-liter V6. All will use direct injection and most will be designed to integrate with hybrid drive systems."

aeggroup

Very good news. I'm looking forward to my next MB after my lease is over ...

220S

Yep, good news for sure. Now it makes my next probable choice of F10 M5 or W212 E63 an even tougher one.

And as much as I like the linear power band of a n/a motor, the evolution and current state of FI has made things very different. Lots of everyday usable torque plus better mpg (esp with DI) and less pollutants. Not to mention the mod capability of FI.

Kudos to MB for acting quickly.

K-A

Wow, nice, good thing M-B didn't let BMW take the cake on the power front.

So the MY '11's will have the new Engines for M-B? Man, makes me wish I liked the 212 more. Will suck to have a '10 MY next year though unless you don't care for HP at all, and unless you're an N/A lover, and have at least an E550.

I wonder how much HP the E350's will have, also I wonder if any styling cues will subtly be changed, usually makers will change a little something here or there to signify the new MY with the added HP.

220S

p.s., here's the thread on the AMG boards:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...bo-v6-v8s.html

For those about ready to plunk down your cash and buy a W212 V8, E63 (or the V6), hold your horses (pun intended) for now. Unless you want a n/a (absolutely nothing wrong with that, but the W212 n/a's will be in a odd position: a new car, an old engine. Maybe they'll become a rare collectors car!)

Those who are leasing will be in a good position.

petee1997

I don't know how bad I want the TT v6 first year. My wife has had a few problems with her first year TT 335 BMW. However if it's problem free, we can expect a higher rate of depreciation on the intro W212.
What can you do. C'est la vie!!!

RNBRAD

I just as soon have a naturally aspirated larger motor. Sure there is benefits to a turbo such as efficiency, less weight etc... but at what cost? Longevity? Maintenance costs? Reliability? I think these have always been questionable points of turbo motors. It will take a few years for me to pick a new turbo motor over a n/a motor that has been tried and true.

K-A

Yeah '10's will fall pretty hard depreciation wise.

I was thinking about it, and although the enthusiast side of me loves F/I, especially TWIN Turbo's, the personal side of me has always loved a big brute N/A motor. I also like to own to keep for a while, so in that case, I am much more confident with N/A.

I think come '11 MY time the '10 E550's will be a car to buy, considering you should find them HEAVILY discounted (or depreciated CPO models). I'd probably go that route if I wanted a 212. At the very least people should wait and see what the '11's have to over all around, including power, etc. as well, by that time we'll know how the F10's will really fare.

The '10 E550 I could see becoming kind of a "collector"-ish type of deal, at least only if the TT's prove to have Reliability problems. The poor 268 HP '10 E350's I think will just be victim to massive depreciation, and in the near future, will be a helluva great Used buy.

Kar don

going from a EFI 3.5V6 to a DI 3.5V6 will not kill resale. 06 BMW 330i's got killed because it was replaced by a TT DI motor that had huge modding capability. The new V6 will be great though, finally the 350 will have enough power like the GS350.

K-A

It'll depend on the HP increase I'd guess as well, although E350 buyers aren't HP nuts, so considering the badge would still read "E350", I think that will be more important factor in regards to how good or badly the re-Sale of a '10 will be more-so than the HP upgrade.

I can't figure out if there's gonna be an N/A 350 V6 AND a TT V6? Or will the TT completely replace the N/A? If there will still be an N/A option, I assume it'll have the 300-ish motor from the SLK. Not a huge deal really, but will help big time.

The badge is what's really important to these buyers, like when the '06 E350 came out, the E320's really suffered a hit as they got older, and became less of a hot commodity.

HiTach

Here is a link to the list of current engine choices for the 2010 W212 in the UK, including 3.5L direct injection versions. No TT listed at this time though.

Here is a link to the specs - don't know if this brochure shot is final.

silberrosa

The current engines listed for the UK market are NOT the new engines discussed for next year. They are direct injection, but they are not the new generation motors which will come this way and also replace those in all other markets. The motors which the UK has are the same as those for most of the ECE markets. They require ultra low sulphur gasoline which is not available in the US. The new gen engines will be built to accept our higher sulphur fuels and therefore we will get them at some point.

MB550

Hello

It is very interesting and informative to read (if I am understanding all this correctly) that they are changing the engine in the 2010 E550 V8 from the current engine to a twin turbo version so soon ie next year in the 2011 model?

I have a few questions :

1) Wouldn't this news being out there by Mercedes so in advance stop many people from buying the 2010 model(s) ?Or are many people concerned about a new engine going in that they would still want and buy the 2010 version with the existing well known engine style in it?

2) Does anyone know if the horsepower will be less or more than the current 382HP in the 2010 E550 ?

3) Is there a history of Twin Turbo's not being very good in the 1st or 2nd year of an introduction(some sites have said this, while others say they are super).

Thanks in advance for any inputs on this as I am curious to learn more as it came as a surprise to me that they are planning an engine change in a brand new model , and I am just trying to gauge the possible financial impact ie will the car more rapidly depreciate or hold its value well with the existing known engine in it etc

Thanks.

K-A

1- Yes, it definitey won't help Sales, that's for sure. However, the M-B buyer in mass general isn't concerned with engine, so it'll be a soft hit the '10 might take, much much less than, say, the '10 Mustang where a confirmed major power boosted V6 and V8 are due next year, those buyers tend to be more power hungry and enthusiasts, so chances are they'll pay more attention. 99.8% of M-B buyers probably have no idea about the next motors, and probably won't until they start getting Sold.

2- No doubt it'll be more HP.

3- Yes, TT's are known to be problematic *sometimes*, a first or second year intro version might definitely have some bugs, as well it can possibly not, but the former is probably a higher probability.... We'll see.

I'd wait, people can debate it all they want but the '10's will be major depreciation rocks in comparison with the rest of the W212 lines, not only are they the first year MY's (which always get hit depreciation wise more-so than the rest of the MY's), but being the only MY with the "old" motors will really push them to the side once the newer models start coming out. Worst case, if the new '11 engines aren't enticing enough to you, you can pick up a '10 for a GREAT deal.

Boulder GT3

#1
It's a marketing strategy meant to block some of the F10 thrill. While many whined about it, the Bangle era for BMW has been a good one and MB needs to slow further drift. They need to have the mainline models be perceived to be more performance oriented to compete for share in the 5 Series/E class segment. This is an internet forum where people get lathered up about issues that 80% of the Benz buyers don't care about. My wife is a perfect example. She's on her third SL and doesn't know if it's powered by a V8 or jet engine. I'm sure MB has given careful consideration to how many sales the announcement stalls and decided it's worth it. Product migration and evolution in any large company is carefully considered and talked about ad naseum.

Side note, if you listened to the forum yappers in 02-04 you would have thought the end of the earth was coming for BMW with the Bangle cars. Guess what? They were sales winners. Internet chatter is oftern very disconnected from results.

#3
This would concern me. MB and BMW have a wretched history of releasing stuff before it's baked. 7 series, M3, curret 5 series, 211, CL, SL and so on all had significant teething issues. For fun, go to a service advisor you like and have him pull the TSB's for the first three years of a complicated Benz or BMW. Year 1 will have 3x the issues of year. I speak from experience on this one. I'm getting ready to make the same mistake as my wife wants an E coupe.

ipp

Atleast in Europe the n/a 292hp E350 CGI will stay, since it's already too expensive and large for most people already. Maybe they will introduce a twin turbo 6-cyl aswell, but I think they'll have to keep the non turbo in the lineup. BMW didn't introduce the 535i E60 at all here, they kept the 530i instead. It's not until the F10 you can buy a 535i here. On the other hand we've have the mighty 535d instead.

MB550

I just wanted to say thanks alot for the inputs and responses .Great info and insights. Thanks very much.

PS- In summary I am thinking that the 2010 E550 I have with the existing engine is just fine(and a high quality known product of course), and the new one might have some problems in the beginning , so for now , its a safer bet.

I also noticed when reading about the twin turbo engine that the 0-50(or 60 I forgot which one? ) is not looking like it will be quicker with the twin turbo's ( I saw this when reading about the upcoming BMW 5 series with the twin turbo's , ie it is projected to be almost the same as the E550 from zero to 60) , so this was also interesting, as I thought maybe it would have a huge impact , but it doesnt seem likely.

Again thanks to all for the info & opinions noted.

gaazmon

Yes, I agree in regards to the V6. It will probably be a DI just like on the 09+ SLK350's.

The 550 will be interesting to see. Probably a 5.0L TT. I don't think MB will drop the V8 below 5L. So it will probably be like a M113 engine twin turbo so probably a little over 400hp.

Also, I wonder what the V12TT will be replaced (mostly likely they will be) with seeing as MB is trying to save fuel economy for the regulations. Probably a bigger V8TT.

I was never a fan of the 63 engine compared to the 55.

jinx420hat

I pretty much wanna cry... I've been complainin that my 350 was too weak and now this... oh well, its wifey's car not mine. I'm still gettin myself a 09' CTS-V,

HiTach

Have you got a link to information on this?

I am familiar with high sulphur issues in US diesel fuel (see link), but not in US gasoline.