E550Shopper

I'm looking at new cars, and leaning toward the W212. Been reading many of the threads here, and people seem generally happy with it.

I had a number of questions that I was hoping I could get answered here. Here's the configuration I'm considering:

Will get: 2011 E550 4MATIC, P2, Distronic Plus, Drive-Dynamic seat, Wood Steering
Might get: Night view, Panoramic Sunroof, Parktronic, Split-folding seat

(1) Any known / frequent issues with these cars?

(2) A specific question as to (1): The transmission on my '07 E350 often feels weird to me (hard shifts) -- have people experienced this much on the new 550?

(3) Opinions on the options in the "might" group above? Seems like many of you think Night View is not worth the money. Does the split-folding rear seat detract from the fit and finish of the rear seat at all? It's not clear to me what Parktronic does exactly, short of helping you park -- could someone explain?

(4) Anyone know if Presafe Brake will engage even if you're not using the adaptive cruise?

(5) On the E550 I test drove, the steering felt kind of light / loose. I'll drive it again at least once to confirm, but it this a general impression of the car?

(6) Most of the literature says that ventilated seats will come on the 350 at some point. Anyone know if they're available yet?

(7) Likewise, guidance lines on the backup camera?

(8) Pre-safe apparently closes windows before a crash. How sensitive is this (i.e., are there many false positives?), and what happens if a kid's fingers are in the window at the time?

As mentioned on another thread on the W221 section, the other cars I'm mainly considering are the S and the Audi A8L. E is probably in the lead though. This is mostly a commuter car for me (i.e., rarely will there be passengers) and it's hard for me to justify the additional price of the S for no additional features. (Feel free to correct me if you think I'm undervaluing the additional $40K expense of the S.)

Thanks a lot for your help -- look forward to being able to contribute more actively once I get my new car. :-)

reckrab

Parktronic uses sensors on the front and rear bumpers to alert you when you get close to an object. You must be going slow (under 5 mph I think) and the closer you get the more lights light up on the warning panel until you get within about a foot (don't quote me on the exact distance I just don't remember) and then an audible alarms sounds and red lights light up. It also will tell you if a parallel parking space is big enough for you to squeeze into by driving slowly down the street waiting for the P with an arrow to show up in your display. Then it gives you limited instructions on how to turn your wheel to accomplish this. The first part I find really handy because you can't always see low stuff when you are parking but the second portion I haven't actually used.

I personally would buy the option again if I was buying a new car but if you don't try to park in tight spaces it may not be worth it.

E550Shopper

Thanks reckrab -- very useful. Both the 750 and the A8L have a similar thing with a diagram of the car on the LCD screen, broken down into 6 or 8 sections, each of which can light up green/yellow/red depending on how close you are to an object. Sounds like Parktronic is a similar feature, though perhaps less visually appealing?

reckrab

Yeah, definately less appealing but still functional. The sensor warning lights are on the front dashboard down low in the middle next to the windshield and at the top of the rear window in the back. I'd say that from a practicality standpoint you can see them while looking where you are going instead of diverting your eyes to the screen in the car.

BenzE350

The S and the A8 are great cars but in another price class.

If I was looking at an E550 I would cross shop the BMW 535/550.

Tjdehya

Only for non 4matic cars. I am not sure about E350 4matics but the E550 4matics have a much better feel than a non 4matic E550. I have owned both W212 E550's and the difference is like night and day. I am so happy that I have a 4matic even though I initially didnt want one.

Zinny

I still had a 2011 S4 on order, Still coming in, loaded with amazing engine for $56,000.

Just did not have the little things light automated lighting and saftery features e class has. But REALLY amazing car.

E550Shopper

Thanks -- I remember seeing that comment of yours on the 4matic steering on another thread.

As for S vs. E -- would be happy to hear people's take on what makes the S worth the extra money, besides the additional size. (Obviously styling is different, but that's kind of a matter of personal aesthetic taste.) It's quite possible that I'm overlooking something important, but I don't know what that would be at the moment.

E550Shopper

Got some time to read a few more threads here. Seems like there are occasional complaints of "issues" with these cars, particularly with the E550's, but not many concrete references to problems in the recent threads, short of a couple of cars that were just lemons (emilner, Tjdehya, etc.)

So, at the moment, items (1) and (2) from my original post are of greatest concern. Could someone maybe point me to some examples of common problems people have experienced?

LaicepsYdobon

I'm on my 4th E (3 previous gen and a current gen) and no issues with my cars. Some people had issues with the airmatic suspension so you might want to search around the forums for that but nothing else comes to mind.

I've had it on one of my previous E-Classes but it adapted to my driving style and the problem disappeared.

In my opinion the Night View is not worth the money. It's also very counterintuitive to look at a little display and not out the front window. There are a lot of people who like it and an equal amount who don't. It's really up to you to see if you would use it everyday. Search on You Tube and you will find plenty of examples:

Stelvio Pass using Nightview only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhmNbdoFZg0

Autospies demonstraits Nightview Assistant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c63bO4omCD4

My current car is the first car I had adaptive cruise control installed in and I absolutely love that feature. I would get that instead of the Night View Assist.

The split folding seats will not affect the fit and finish of the backseat. You can not even tell if you have that feature or not just by looking at the seats.

Parktronic displays a row of LED lights that light up the closer you get to an obstacle when you are parking. If you get too close an audible alarm will go off also. Here is a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfVzsgOqfmw

Yes; PreSafe is indipendant of Distronic Plus (adaptive cruise control) but the two features work really well with each other.

The steering is light. I have no problems driving the car with one hand. I could not do that with my BMW. For everyday driving I prefer the lighter steering; but that's my personal preference.

According to MBUSA.com they are not. Might want to check with a dealer to see if they have any info on this.

Rumored to be in the 2012 cars. Emphasis on rumored...

In my 10 years of being in the Benz family I've never had any false positives. I had to do an emergency lane change followed by full breaking maneuver and then back on the gas again to avoid a collision by a drunk driver on the highway. Pre-safe did kick in by tightening my seat belts, closing the sunroof and turning my hazards on. If a finger is detected in the path of the window it will not close fully. The windows do not double as guillotines

I like both the S and the A8 but both of those cars are just too big for me. Currently I don't need anything bigger then a E/5 Series/A6 so I would not even consider going one size up. A lot of people, including me, agree that the E-Class is like a smaller S in terms of comfort and tech.

LaicepsYdobon

What you are overlooking is the keeping-up-with-the-Jones factor. Some might argue that an S-Class in your driveway would project more wealth/respect then an E-Class. Complete garbage if you ask me but sadly for some folks this matters and MB rightfully exploits numbskulls like these.

I just remembered on thing that the S-Class has that the E does not. Active cross wind detection. An S-Class can detect and compensate for cross winds when driving while the E can not. I'm not sure if this is standard on the S or part of a package.

swebber

I have a 2011 E550 (not 4matic). I traded a 2011 BMW 535i in on it. There is no comparison between the two cars. The BMW falls far short of the E550 in performance, ride, appearance, you name it. My E550 shifts so smoothly I can only notice it if accelerating hard. I would also prefer an E350 over the BMW. The 2011 was my third and last BMW -- only bought it over the Mercedes this time because the dealer offered a much better deal than the Mercedes dealer next door would. Bad mistake -- you get what you pay for.

I had a 2008 S550. I don't think I would buy another S Class. It was a terrific car, but not worth the extra cost over the E550. The only thing in the S550 that I liked better than the E550 were the seats. The S driver's seat has more adjustments and a much more comprehensive massage then the E. Also, the S provides those same features for the front passenger seat. Furthermore, the S550 just felt too large for my driving comfort. I had the night vision in the S550. It is a fun gimmick to show your friends but of little practical value. Still, I would go with the E. I also think the styling of the 2011 E beats that of the S which is four model years old now.

Features that I would highly recommend are Parktronic, dynamic driver's seat, ventilated seats (which are available in the E350 sedan as of September but probably few if any on dealer lots yet), P2 for keyless go and automatic trunk opener/closer, and split rear seats (great if you decide to stop at Lowe's or the garden store on the way home and pick up a rake or long board, or at Sports Authority to get a set of skis that are on sale, etc.). At first, my wife and I thought we preferred the Luxury version with the wooden steering wheel over the Sport version. However, after looking at different interior colors we decided the Sport with the black wood trim and AMG wheel package (wheels and steering wheel) was preferable -- we decided on light gray interior which goes very well with the black dash and floors that all Sport versions have. I also like the exterior trim that comes with the Sport better.

BenzE350

You traded a 2011 535i for a 2011 E550? How bad did you get spanked with the depreciation hit on the BMW.

swebber

MSRP was $63k. Trade in value was $50k. It was a big hit, but the BMW was full of issues. Lawyer wanted me to sue BMW, and he was willing to handle the case on contingency. However, it would probably have taken 6 months or more with no guarantee of success. So, I just decided to dump the car. I told the dealership about all of the issues before getting a trade in price (probably could have gotten more if I had kept quiet, but my conscience would not let me do that).

The delaership where I got the Mercedes was a BMW and Mercedes dealership (not the one where I purchased the BMW). One of their people told me to look in the service department where he claimed they fix old Mercedes and new BMWs.

BenzE350

With so many issues I'm surprised you couldn't use the lemon law?

E550Shopper

Thanks guys -- really helpful today, LaicepsYdobon in particular.

LaicepsYdobon -- Do you have a 350 or 550? 4MATIC or not? Thanks much for the YouTube links -- I'll check them out. It's tough to evaluate some of these features, since the dealers tend not to have them equipped in inventory. As for ABC -- I don't think it's available with 4MATIC, and I live up north, so 4MATIC is kind of a must.

swebber -- Appreciate the insight on the various features. Agreed that what you've recommended here is a nice mix of packages.

LaicepsYdobon

My current daily driver is a 2011 4MATIC E350. I live in NJ so 4MATIC is a must for me also. All my previous cars had Michelins on them while my current car has Bridgestones. I loved the Michelins in the snow/slush; I can't comment on the Bridgestones yet but from what I've read online they are pretty good also during the winter months. The car has the Sport package, the P2 package and the Driver's Assistance package. I was a bit apprehensive about getting the car but after commuting with it and driving it up to Canada all my worries have been put to rest. I truly believe this is the best Benz I've ever had the pleasure of owning so far. Take the plunge; I don't think you'll regret it.

mbfoup

I just acquired a 2011 E550 White/Almond/Walnut + Sports + P2 + Parktronic + Drive-Dynamic Seat + Illuminated Sills (totally useless but that came with the car) to replace my 2008 Lexus IS F. You can see pics in my other threads.

1. In term of look, the E is better to me than any BMW and Lexus.

2. The V8 is awesome and though it's 10% less powerful than the F it seems it's pushing really hard (but there is no exaggerated -I should say "engineered"- exhaust noise like the F or the BMW 550). Compared to the BMW 550, well, the 4.4L twin-turbo could not make it for me. It's one thing to be impaired by slow (the lag time for the gear to change) downshifting (when cruising and then suddenly flooring the car) and that can be managed by downshifting in advance and then hover at 3500-4500 RPM ready to launch, but when doing this prep work on the BMW, I floored the car and nothing happened. Or nothing seems to happen except a lot of noise until the beast reached 6000+ RPM, then it pushed hard. That turbo lag is awful...

3. The E gear box is OK, yet the best so far in a E series. The F or the BMW gear box is faster and both cars offer a true manual mode with the shifters when the E offers more a "shift range" feature with the shifter. That means that you cam downshift relatively quickly but then if you floor the car and upshift with the shifter the shifter "order" may not be taken until the red line is reached. But that's not really a problem since, if you floor the car, you likely want it to upshift at red line.

4. The steering is very good but not as good as the BMW (seems very close to the Lexus IS F though). To me the steering works fine. The BMW may feel a little "tighter".

5. The BMW has too many options, too much expensive, is too complicated.

6. The E550 airmatic suspension is a marvel. Its night and day compared to the F and it's much better than the BMW.

7. The Drive-Dynamic Seat (which I thought I would never need or like) is a fantastic option.

That's it for now. I need to drive the car more to provide more feedback, especially in more sporty situations but I am waiting to reach 1000 miles.

Tjdehya

I am glad that I am not the only one that noticed this. When I test drove the Bmers... the lack of power was HORRIBLE!!! Yes you can floor the gas pedal and get power but I dont have to floor my E to put a grin on my face. We all know that MB will be moving to TT Small blocks next year but I am hoping and praying the MB does it 100x better than BMW.

BenzE350

Very interesting. I drove a 2008 E60 series 535xi for 3 years (300HP twin turbo). There was ZERO turbo lag. One of the BEST performance engines from any auto company.

I test drove a 2011 F10 535xi and did notice a SLIGHT turbo lag. This is a twin scroll single turbo. Certainly could not be called horrible by any standard.

I did not test drive the 550, however, the folks on Bimmerfest and all the auto trade publications say it is much more powerful and responsve than the 535.

Something is wrong if someone found HORRIBLE turbo lag on the 550? Are you sure it wasn't in some sort of economy setting? Did the car have the sport automatic transmission?

swebber

My 2011 535i did not have any turbo lag. It did, however, have a noticeable lag when accelerating normally from a dead stop. One would press on the accelerator lightly, it would depress, but nothing would happen, then upon depressing further the car would lurch forward.

mbfoup

Refer to http://www.craigselection.com/2010/0...bo-test-drive/

That will tell you all. I have not experienced the suspension issue during my test drive since the car had the dynamic suspension (or whatever they call it) option. But for the engine, my experience was similar.

You may feel some exhilaration while testing the BMW 550i because the engine screams (exhaust note) and the car feels a little tighter. Same reason I had bought the IS F instead of the M3. With the E550 or the IS F, you set it to 3500 RPM, floor it and either car takes off. The initial reaction in the 550i or M3 seems dull, even if either car eventually accelerates slightly faster once it reaches its "Formula One comfort zone" of 6-7000 RPM. Totally different experience, but if you are a race bike driver you might prefer the TT.

BenzE350

Typically referred to as throttle tip-in. BMW's do tend to be a bit jerky if you are not used to it. I remember the first X5's were really bad and BMW updated some software and it was much improved.

LaicepsYdobon

+1 one to this. Because of this throttle tip issue and the overly grippy breaks at slower speeds I had a hard time driving smoothly especially in city driving. It was rather annoying for my passengers to have their heads bobbing back and forward every time I accelerated/approached a light.

park423

I just picked up a 2010 E550 P2 last Friday and I am loving the car. The power over the E350 is well worth the extra price and I got a great deal because the dealer just wanted to get rid of a 2010 and tons of incentives, but had no choice in colors or options. Yes, the steering does feel light and Bimmers will handle better. The airmatic suspension makes up a little on that, sport gives you a little more road feel. The acceleration is the key, I drove a friends 335i coupe and definitely noticed the turbo lag. I thought about waiting for 4.7L TT V8 but was afraid of the new TT as others have mentioned. The transmission with 7G is pretty smooth, overall it is a highway cruiser with alot of power and decent road feel/handling. The interior is great and seems like MB has worked out the electronic bugs over the last few years... had an 03 E320, that was terrible. One thing is there are no guide lines on the back up camera, my wife's 2010 ML350 has them but not the E??? Gas mileage sucks but then again I've only had the car a few days and have been flooring it every chance I get.