ngerstman

It's great to hear that they have made the parts more robust for greater life and reliability. I do wish that they had more than two settings. I do remember reading somewhere that someone didn't like any of the settings when there were three. I think that the two settings on my 2011 e550 are in the correct zone. Sport is firm but not too firm while comfort is just a little softer. You notice the difference more easily during cornering, with much less body roll in sport, as you would expect. One more setting on either side of the two would be great(a total of four). Regards. Ned.

WGB

My late ML500 had three settings.

Sport - which was much firmer than than the E550
Auto - good all round setting similar to E 550 comfort.
Comfort- Too floaty if you needed handling but very pleasant on a long Country cruise.

I am quite happy with the two we are provided with in my E500 (550) as they seem a good compromise for the type of car it is . Comfort is great with no float and sport adds some precision without much extra harshness.

It is possible that US specs are different to Australian as we traditionally get the harder European specs.

Bill

ngerstman

I hear you. I guess it would be a few more toys to play with in the car. I am reasonably happy with the sport setting for most driving. There might be the occasion when I might want it a bit firmer but probably not too often on the mediocre New Jersey(Northeast USA) roads. Regards. Ned.

220S

It's possible they went to two settings because of the negative camber that sport II ("3rd" setting) can introduce. Driving it a lot in sport II (at least on the AMGs) with that kind of squat tends to cause more inner tire wear. Anyway it's just speculation. Could be just basic cost-cutting. Who knows.

mg-E550

I generally have enjoyed airmatic in my first 20000 miles with it. Comfort setting is enough to smooth out fdr drive in NYC, while sport mode makes back roads in westchester where I live a lot more fun. My only worry is that when these things fail they can leave you stranded with ride height being too low. Has this ever happened to any of you that have/had 211's?

As for cost to repair, I've chalked it up to expense of maintaining a benz. Is there an extended warrant you can buy that would cover these? My guess is failure of these would probably come under the heading of "wear and tear".

Tjdehya

My W211 had 3 settings Comfort, Sport I, and Sport II. (if I remember correctly)
The W212 went to 2 settings because the new Airmatic system automatically modulates between Comfort and Sport I (from the old system) depending on driving style/condition/etc. So there was no need for 3 settings anymore.
Previous W211 owners will notice that the W212 doesn't sway in corners like the W211 in comfort mode because the new Airmatic system compensates for hard cornering.
I wouldn't call that a cost saving I would say they added an awesome feature. IMO.
I will have to find the video that explains this and post it here.

220S

Please do post the video if you can find it. I've driven the W212 550 pretty extensively now and found it to be more 'floaty' than my W211 E63 and with more body roll. But I could only attribute that to maybe the AMG tuned airmatic suspension in my car. There seems to be a pretty big difference between the AMGs and the E550s.

But I can't compare the W211 E550 with the W212 E550 (since I don't own a W211 E550) so no doubt there's a difference between those two. Nonetheless, the body roll is still pretty pronounced in the W212. And the steering is still numb. The E Class is a heavy car, no question about it. And you can feel the weight shift around during super hard cornering. ABC would be an answer and a nice option for the E Class.

Tjdehya

The body roll in the W211 was very pronounced in comfort mode compared to the W212. I always drove in Sport I because it was that bad. As to the steering I found it very numb in the non-4matic W212 I had but the 4matic E550 is a big difference. I dont know how it would compare to the E63 but the 4matic steering feels just like my W211.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQh8PPuR710

ngerstman

I would have been very surprised if the e63 wasn't much firmer with less body roll than the e550. I wouldn't want the e550 to be as stiff as the e63. I don't think you can get less body roll without the trade off off a stiffer ride without an exotic expensive option like ABC that is offered on the S class. I like the compromise of the e550, just right for me. If not, I might have bought a BMW 550. Regards. Ned.

WGB

I guess I'm showing my age but I couldn't look forward to a long cruise in an E 63 ( and I am talking about regular return trips of 600 Km in a day up to occasional 2400 Km in two to three days).

The E63 also only comes with a 66 litre gas tank vs 80 litres in an E 550 and while this is irrelevant in this conversation it further lessened the relevance to me of purchasing one for long distance cruising.

Bill

220S

Interestingly enough, the new F10 550i BMW is now closer to the W212 E550. I drove the two back to back and they are now more similar than opposite (my local dealer is a MB, Audi, Porsche, BMW, and Jaguar dealership all rolled into one, and it's great to be able to compare.)

In fact all the previous E60 550i owners are "complaining" that the new F10 is too much like a Benz now

As for me, when I hop into my E63 after driving my Porsche, it feels like I'm driving on cream cheese
I feel pampered in comparison. It's all relative, no doubt.

ngerstman

Sounds like the Porsche is not for me. I find my 2001 e55 as hard as I could take on the roads by me. That is one hell of a dealership. Toys for rich boys. Which did you prefer, the BMW or the Mercedes? Regards. Ned.

mg-E550

Wgb: you log some serious miles. What's your odo up to already?

220s: did you drive the f10 with all the suspension options added? I wonder if the packages make a difference.

220S

They also have Range Rover as part of their line. It's the same town where Jeff Bridges, Drew Barrymore, Rob Lowe and many others live (and no, it's not Malibu or Beverly Hills. It's a much smaller place and with some great driving roads and very little traffic. ) And they sell Smart and Hyundai, too. I guess they've got all their bases pretty well covered.

I liked the BMW. I won't get too much into design, since that's so subjective (and tends to get pretty contentious on these forums.) But I have to admit that I'm not enamored with the new W212 design, both outside and inside. I really, really like the interior of the new BMW. It has an almost 'Scandinavian' design feel to it. And somewhat Bauhaus looking. An Ikea interior? I just felt it was more fluid than the W212 interior. The exterior of the BMW I'm not quite sure about yet. The rear looks nice however. But the flat nosed front with the over sized kidney grills don't quite do it for me. And the shut line of the hood is odd.

The F10 550i is pretty much a small 7 series now (rather than a larger 3 series as some detractors have claimed.) The ride has changed a lot from the previous E60. It's much softer and cushier, but there's still more feedback than in the W212 E Class. Yet not anywhere like the E60. I'll also warn you that I liked the E60 handling. I prefer more feedback over total comfort. But I do appreciate a smooth ride and the E60 was definitely too harsh for a mid-sized 'luxury' sedan. I think the trade-off is well balanced now in the new BMW. It felt a lot more like the W212. With the dynamic handling package, the 550i has four settings over the W212 Airmatic's 2 settings. From "Mercedes soft" to a true sport firm.

The big plus are the amenities. iDrive is a great system now that it's been upgraded over the original version. The Nav system is much, much better than MB's. The maps are really good and detailed; graphics are 100% better. I also preferred the BMW multi-contour seats over the MB seats. They are more comfortable for me plus they had the thigh extensions which I really like. And you can get them in optional soft nappa leather. Also the HUD option is actually useful. I always thought it was just gimmicky, but it's really pretty cool. And now it will be coming in full color.

You can get a lot more nice stuff with the BMW, albeit as expensive options. Including a premium sound system that's much better than what MB gives you. You simply have more goodies to choose than what MB now offers. The caveat being that those options add to the MSRP pretty quickly. But they are there if you want them.

Bottom line for me is that if the BMW 550i could have the MB V8 and 7G-Tronic transmission, I'd take the BMW. I'm nervous about reliability with this new twin turbo (and all the massive heat it generates), plus I'm a NA motor person myself.

The BMW 550i is more of a completely new car than the W212 E550. Everything in the F10 550i is pretty much all different than the previous E60 550i. I'm not an early adopter and so I'd personally be sitting out both for now. But the BMW 550i should prove a very worthwhile option after a few years on the road, and maybe after its first face lift (same goes with the W212.) I liked the new 550i a lot; there's a lot of potential going for it, imho. The 550i was built specifically to compete with the W212 E550. And the next E550 will compete with this new 550i. The war will never end. But I think MB needs to be cautious and not just rest on their laurels (i.e., the marque.)

The first one I drove was a base model and not the 550i (during the BMW invite; I also currently own an older BMW 3 series.) After that I drove a couple of them with the dynamic handling package. I wish I could compare, but it was too long ago that I drove the base version. I also recently drove a newer build version with the dynamic handling package (adaptive drive but with the latest updated software.) It also had the M package. I can't say for certain if it had integral active steering but I don't think so. So, I can't say much about the IAS option.

Adaptive drive has dynamic damping control and active roll stabilization. It still gives a very comfortable ride but with decent feedback. The new electric steering felt weird to me at first. It's a big switch in feeling from the previous E60. It's the one thing I'm not too positive about. Others say it just takes a while to get used to, and others flat out don't like it. Overall, the F10 550i is now closer to the E550 in comfort but for me still retains better feedback to the driver. I would definitely recommend the dynamic handling package; the car can be from gushy soft to firm with four settings: comfort, normal, sport, sport + (and more firm and 'sport-like' than the W212 E550.) There's no float or body roll with the 550i and dynamic handling, and it feels more like ABC on the S Class. Can't yet say if IAS is a worthwhile option, but I'll check it out more carefully next time.

ngerstman

Thanks for the extensive comparison, clear and to the point!! I had test driven the new x5 and the definition on the nav was impressive as was the comfort of the upgraded seats and the sound of the stereo was great. These are most certainly things things that Mercedes could do better. While I love the functionality of the drive dynamic seats, the massage and the cornering bolsters, they are not all that comfortable. I do like the design of both the exterior and the interior more than the BMW. Living in New Jersey, the difference in handling would not be of paramount importance to me. The e550 handles well enough and the engine and tranny are also good enough. I would also like more settings on the airmatic shocks. Being a big music fan, I am not thrilled that the stereo doesn't have a better low end response. I am generally very happy with the car. But for such a premium product, great seats and a great stereo should not be too much to ask for. Regards. Ned.

WGB

Over 12,000 km.

I log about 500 km per week in my job but I am on two grand Masonic teams that cover the whole of Western Australia (which is the Left hand 1/3 of Australia) and has a land mass equivalent to about 30 % of the Continental US.

I do have several cars and spread the load around and usually fly if round trip is over 1200 km (2400 km round trip) as this 1200km is max for me for 1 day with a driver change.

My ML 320 CDI is capable of 1100 km per tankful and has been away on most of the long hauls as I usually have three other guys and their luggage with me but if my wife and I go alone or the trip is about 600 km return I take my car.

Bill

220S

Yeah, I'm generally happy with my car, too. And especially the motor and the car's overall performance. But there are certain things that bug me about it. I realize no car is perfect, but sometimes I wonder if MB does tend to rest on the history of the marque and what was once a stellar perception by the driving public.

And yes, even my seats (AMG seats in nappa leather etc.) are really not that comfortable.

I'll go out on a limb and editorialize here. And it's based solely on intuition and gut feelings. I think MB has always been behind the ball on things like Navigation, stereo, integrated phones, and other electronic niceties. Their philosophy (at least in the past) has been that build quality (and safety) is paramount and the rest are all indulgences that aren't truly necessary. So, they give only a cursory thought to that sort of stuff. Plus MB's attitude has always kind of been, "Yes, our seats are hard and uncomfortable but they are safe and better built, and we know better than you anyway, and so there!"

But they've since dropped the ball on build quality. They no longer over build the cars as they did in the past. And they'll never go back to that (expensive) way of building cars. Economy and regulations do govern more aspects of car building these days. Yet they've still kept the same attitude about stereos and cupholders and other "frills." So we have a car that can't quite rest on a previous history of tank-like quality and also doesn't quite deliver with the amenities, either.

I'm not going to argue whether or not we really need all those amenities. But the fact is they are now to be expected, even with the most rudimentary entry level car. Just like Volvo no longer has the exclusivity on safety and no brand has any exclusivity on good navigation systems, phone integration, nice seats, stereos, and even cupholders. We want and expect all of it: performance, safety, build quality, and all the latest amenities.

ngerstman

The realities of the world are that you must make money to survive and to do that you have to make some hard decisions that often involve trade offs. I think that the build quality of my 2011 e550 is pretty darn good, in general. The fit and finish is great and the interior and exterior are beautiful. But skimping in some important areas seem to me to be bordering on silly. The difference in cost of a good car stereo versus a great one might be $100-$200. More comfortable seats, marginal. And what is more important than comfortable seats!! The latest in nav, modestly more. All in all a damn good job on the new "e". But for maybe $500 more in cost, it would be great. Regards. Ned.

K-A

I don't get the complaints on seats and stereo. My business revolves around music, and I think the stereo sounds very dynamic, and high end. It might not give you a ghetto bump, but even when I'm feeling like indulging in that side myself, the bass can thump decently enough. I got most of that out when I had a 15" Subwoofer in my Mustang GT with a 1,000 Watt Amp pumping fire into it though. We all have different ears and different perceptions of sound though, so I understand that.

And the seats? I feel like the seats in my car are SO comfortable. Soft and plush enough, but still solid and firm enough to not feel like you're sitting on a sofa (or old Caddy). Weird how these things vary between people.

And a lot of stuff has been cost cut, or obviously plebeian-ized, but as far as fit and finish, and solidity go, IMO this car is second to none. I loved the 535i that I drove, but what instantly struck me when I got back into the E, is that solid driving Mercedes charm (that stopped existing for a while), and I actually love the F10's interior, but I think the M-B's provides for a better driving ambiance and environment (something M-B always prides themselves on, or at least say that they do).

ngerstman

When you get up into the price range of these cars, I expect all of the creature comforts to be pretty close to state of the art. From my perspective, the seats could have more cushioning and a nicer grade of leather. It is after all an option that you pay extra for in the e350!! As far as the stereo, I am a big music fan, a stereo hobbyist for a long time but not a totally insane audiophile. In the controlled acoustical environment of a car, you have the opportunity to get truly sublime sound quality without the need of spending crazy money. As I've said before, the stereo doesn't suck, but it clearly could be better with some additional expense and thought. Bass response is critical to the sound of a really great sound. This stereo doesn't get there. The base is somewhat anemic until you really crank the volume(and no volume read out!! What the hell!!). That is annoying. BMW stereos much better. The Audi B&O stereo very good. I totally agree with you about the quality of the build and feel of the vehicle. Very Mercedes like!! Regards. Ned.

K-A

Actually, for the Leather I agree with you. MB-Tex is a different story as it's not Leather (a whole different debate), but the best Vinyl Seats out there. However, the W212's Leather Option was very underwhelming and "Vinyl feeling" to me, which is why I decided to stick with MB-Tex.

ngerstman

I had the e350 with MB tex for three weeks before trading it back to the dealership for a e550. I was shocked at how nice the MB tex actually felt and looked. And it will supposedly out live all of us!! In some ways the cushioning on the e350 seat was better than on the e550. I did not like the feeling of the break for the two seat cushions(going left to right), hit me in the wrong spot. That could just be me. Some reviewers have complimented the comfort of those seats. The seat in the e550 have the seaming in the front to back orientation which just works better for me. I must say that I really like the driver dynamic seat(functionally, not comfort wise), the massage and cornering bolsters especially. Regards. Ned.

220S

K-A, I think you've been drinking too much Kool-Aid. and esp when you compare your old posts about the "new" W212. Now you sound like a company PR person.

It's common to not want to criticize one's own car because it can reflect on whether one's choice of purchase was correct or not. And nobody really wants to admit to shortcomings after the fact.

But seriously all cars from all brands have issues. Recognizing and being critical of those shortcomings is a good thing, imho. It keeps mfgs on the ball.

fwiw, I'm a "totally insane audiophile" with way too much money in high end audio gear; tube amps with tubes from Russia, etc., blah-blah (the Brits make some of the best stuff, btw.)

The system in the MB is really poor. And I don't mean the bass response (I'm more discerning in the high notes where it counts.) Even my 2002 BMW 330i has a better sounding system (btw, speaker placement in respect to chamber area makes a big difference.) They should at least offer a premium option. BMW does, Audi does, and Jag recognizes the difference and offers the Bowers & Wilkins system. Bentley offers the Naim system. The new SLS AMG does offer a very pricey new Bang and Olufsen system option, but why can't the 'regular' MBs have a premium sound option, too?

The seats are comfortable but not when you compare them with some of the other brands. And why not have thigh extensions?

MB will rest on their laurels because people get too enamored with the logo. There's a mythology that surrounds the name which convinces people that the brand is somehow infallible. "Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz." And MB capitalizes on all that.

They are great cars no doubt, but let's not get complacent and allow them to dump whatever they want on us.

RNBRAD

As for the stereo, I'm assuming your refering to your w211? If so I would say your spot on. But if your refering to the W212, not sure what you mean but hopefully you gave it a proper listening through a high quality format like DVD-A. The W212 does have thigh extension with the driver adaptive seats but not sure it was an option with the 211.

ngerstman

Are you of the opinion that the stereo in the 212 is meaningfully better than the 211? I don't have any experience with the 211 stereo, but trust me, the 212 stereo is ok but not great. As was pointed out, there are some truly high end stereos offered by the competition with exceptional sound. While the 212 stereo isn't terrible by any means, it could be much better in a lot of parameters especially in the low end(bass), IMO. Until you've heard a super high end car stereo, you won't know what your missing. A totally different experience. You would know it if you heard it. Being that a car is a small acoustical environment, great sound can be achieved without the need for it to cost a fortune. If Mercedes put a modest amount of thought and expense into it, maybe $500-$1000 more, it could be great. But they manufacture to a price point and the stereo got the short straw. Too bad for people like me who know how good it could be. Regards. Ned.