Quality and Sales
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Quality and Sales
Apparently Consumer Reports April car issue is out. Honda, Subaru and Toyota best all around car makers followed by Volvo, Ford and Hyundai. Takes into consideration CR road tests and reliability ratings from members.
Where was M-B? Near the bottom along with BMW and General Motors and Chrysler as worst.
I have issues with CR, particularly their road test results and perennial favorites, but it is information that influences lots of people. Quality and reliability are two areas where M-B needs to improve.
BTW, BMW in Greer (Greenville) SC has announced a $100 million expansion to increase production. Just completed a $750 million expansion last year. Plant produces X3, X5 and X6, primarily for export. US sales are up 21% and global sales are up 28%.
Where was M-B? Near the bottom along with BMW and General Motors and Chrysler as worst.
I have issues with CR, particularly their road test results and perennial favorites, but it is information that influences lots of people. Quality and reliability are two areas where M-B needs to improve.
BTW, BMW in Greer (Greenville) SC has announced a $100 million expansion to increase production. Just completed a $750 million expansion last year. Plant produces X3, X5 and X6, primarily for export. US sales are up 21% and global sales are up 28%.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Hard to beat
The Equus is going to be serious competition for M-B, not only because of cost, but also for quality, reliability and service. I had an '07 Azera and it had the suspension/ride issue, but otherwise was a perfect car. Wife says the Azera actually rode better than the E. Azzy had some qualities I miss-air quality switch, super quiet, super smooth on good highways, and better MPG on regular.
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From: NM
2023 AMG EQS
My second choice was a Genesis 3.8 when I got my E350. Two things kept me out of it. The ride was not as good and being honest, the star on the hood and trunk.
The Equus is going to be serious competition for M-B, not only because of cost, but also for quality, reliability and service. I had an '07 Azera and it had the suspension/ride issue, but otherwise was a perfect car. Wife says the Azera actually rode better than the E. Azzy had some qualities I miss-air quality switch, super quiet, super smooth on good highways, and better MPG on regular.
The Equus is going to be serious competition for M-B, not only because of cost, but also for quality, reliability and service. I had an '07 Azera and it had the suspension/ride issue, but otherwise was a perfect car. Wife says the Azera actually rode better than the E. Azzy had some qualities I miss-air quality switch, super quiet, super smooth on good highways, and better MPG on regular.
A Hyundai may look nice but the name alone is why it is still out classed most car on the road. I noticed they removed their badge off a couple of their cars but they still need to change the name if they want to be serious luxury car sellers.
It may sound silly but trust me many people will not pay $70k for a "Toyota" but they do it when they buy a "Lexus."
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2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Interesting. I considered the Genesis 4.6. A remarkable car by any standard. It was the ride quality that they still need to work on, but, in all honesty, everything else is just about dead on. A truly excellent sound system in the Genesis as well. If I were Lexus, MB, and BMW, I would not be sleeping to well.
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E350 Coupe
I think that you may have to take into account expectations. Especially with reliability ratings from members. Would I expect better performance/quality from a $20,000 car than a $70,000 dollar car....ah no! So if my $20,000 car meets my expectations and I want to rationalize buying a cheap car I'm going to give it high ratings. Now, if i've paid $70,000 i'm going to expect perfection and nothing less (have you ever noticed what people complain about on this forum). Therefore, if I find the slightest thing that I personally deem wrong even if it's normal. I going to give it low ratings. After all it is a Mercedes-Benz. That's my theory and i'm sticking to it!
Senior Member
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E350
Today, I wouldn't pay $70K for a Hyundai but I might consider $58K MSRP (less negotiated discount) for a well-optioned Equus.
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Senior Member
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E350 Coupe
The Hyundai looks good, because it looks familiar. Even the car magazines have agreed that the Hyundai has taken styling cues from the Mercedes. The Genesis Coupe looks like and was a direct result of the popularity of the Infiniti G35 coupe. This is not a criticism of the Hyuadai business model. They have done everything right, including building them in the US. Yes, they are building a far better reputation over their early years. I am just a traditionalist who enjoy's their MB.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
The Hyundai looks good, because it looks familiar. Even the car magazines have agreed that the Hyundai has taken styling cues from the Mercedes. The Genesis Coupe looks like and was a direct result of the popularity of the Infiniti G35 coupe. This is not a criticism of the Hyuadai business model. They have done everything right, including building them in the US. Yes, they are building a far better reputation over their early years. I am just a traditionalist who enjoy's their MB.
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2010 E350 Luxury 4Matic
I came from a Lexus family, and having that I found Lexus reliable, but certainly not bulletproof. And when things break, it can be expensive to fix besides the regular maintenance.
I never considered Hyundai. Seems like a nice value priced car.
I never considered Hyundai. Seems like a nice value priced car.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Los Angeles, CA
2024 EQE350 SUV, 2022 SL55 AMGMG, 2022 C300
All these ratings are based on initial surveys from buyers after about 1 month of ownership. Obviously MB buyers are picky about every little detail, while Subaru customers don't even expect to be picky, therefore they are more satisfied...
Overall Consumer Report makes me laugh most of the time. When I read what they recommend (for example laptops) - just tells me that people are doing the wrong research based on wrong- out of this world- information.
For example, I know as a fact, Lexus Dealerships are giving discounts to customers in order to buy 100% satisfaction surveys. Luckily, MB dealers did not go this path yet.
Most 20-30 year old Benzes are still on the road, based on current registrations. At the time when you can find more than 20 year old Hundai in the driveable condition with any value - only then you can compare them to Mercedes-Benz!
Overall Consumer Report makes me laugh most of the time. When I read what they recommend (for example laptops) - just tells me that people are doing the wrong research based on wrong- out of this world- information.
For example, I know as a fact, Lexus Dealerships are giving discounts to customers in order to buy 100% satisfaction surveys. Luckily, MB dealers did not go this path yet.
Most 20-30 year old Benzes are still on the road, based on current registrations. At the time when you can find more than 20 year old Hundai in the driveable condition with any value - only then you can compare them to Mercedes-Benz!
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E350
This is not unusual. The BMW reps would remind me several times. Their pay depends on top survery responses.
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2011 E550 Sport (traded), 2012 SLK 350; 2013 GL450 on order for OCT delivery
When I purchased my 2011 BMW, the salesman had a 2 ft x 4 ft poster replicating the satisfaction survey. It had the "suggested" responses highlighted. Naturally, the "suggested" responses were 100% satisfaction. The salesman and sales manager both pleaded that I discuss any consideration of less than a 100% rating with them before doing it.
The Mercedes dealer did not even mention the survey.
The Mercedes dealer did not even mention the survey.
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From: Nashville
2017 S550 Iridium / Black Nappa, 2015 GL 550 Paladium Silver
Funny, I'm two months and three vehicles into MB ownership and haven't seen a thing from MB on owner satisfaction.
I did receive a JD Powers survey but nothing from MB.
I did receive a JD Powers survey but nothing from MB.
Member
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Posts: 181
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From: Canada
2011 E350 4Matic Estate in Mystic Red
Things have changed since then.
Senior Member
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Posts: 361
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From: Los Angeles, CA
2024 EQE350 SUV, 2022 SL55 AMGMG, 2022 C300
Mercedes of the 1970s and 1980s were built under the mantra "money and time are no object" approach to engineering. In the 1980s, Mercedes would be top on reliability in the German ADAC surveys that actually measured the number of breakdowns requiring assistance, and the W126 and W123 were first place every single year. Mercedes was synonymous with reliability.
Things have changed since then.
Things have changed since then.
For Release: March 1, 2011
Mercedes-Benz Recognized as a J.D. Power 2011
Customer Service Champion
Customer Service Champion
Mercedes-Benz is one of only 40 companies to receive this distinction in the U.S.
MONTVALE, N.J.
– Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) was recognized at the J.D. Power
and Associates Customer Service Roundtable in Las Vegas as a J.D. Power 2011
Customer Service Champion—one of only 40 companies to have earned this distinction
this year.
To qualify for inclusion on this elite list, companies must not only excel within
their own industries, but also must stand out among leading brands in 20 major industries
evaluated by J.D. Power. Five key customer “touch points” are measured: people,
presentation, process, product, and price.
To identify the J.D. Power 2011 Customer Service Champions, J.D. Power
evaluated more than 800 brands. Companies were identified based on customer feedback,
opinions, and perceptions gathered primarily from J.D. Power’s syndicated research as
well as additional, supplemental research. From these brands, 40 were chosen as the
highest-performing companies that deliver service excellence to U.S. customers—both
and Associates Customer Service Roundtable in Las Vegas as a J.D. Power 2011
Customer Service Champion—one of only 40 companies to have earned this distinction
this year.
To qualify for inclusion on this elite list, companies must not only excel within
their own industries, but also must stand out among leading brands in 20 major industries
evaluated by J.D. Power. Five key customer “touch points” are measured: people,
presentation, process, product, and price.
To identify the J.D. Power 2011 Customer Service Champions, J.D. Power
evaluated more than 800 brands. Companies were identified based on customer feedback,
opinions, and perceptions gathered primarily from J.D. Power’s syndicated research as
well as additional, supplemental research. From these brands, 40 were chosen as the
highest-performing companies that deliver service excellence to U.S. customers—both
within their respective industries and across all industries measured.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I think that you may have to take into account expectations. Especially with reliability ratings from members. Would I expect better performance/quality from a $20,000 car than a $70,000 dollar car....ah no! So if my $20,000 car meets my expectations and I want to rationalize buying a cheap car I'm going to give it high ratings. Now, if i've paid $70,000 i'm going to expect perfection and nothing less (have you ever noticed what people complain about on this forum). Therefore, if I find the slightest thing that I personally deem wrong even if it's normal. I going to give it low ratings. After all it is a Mercedes-Benz. That's my theory and i'm sticking to it!
Now, with my Benz. If one trim piece breaks, or looks less than perfect, I'm complaining big time, and gonna be really upset toward the car/M-B.
Not to mention, and CR doesn't really make a note of this, but an E-Class is vastly more technological than a Toyota is. Things like Airmatic, all the ASSISTS, Command, etc. etc. are all highly engineered, mostly electronic based stuff, that can be fickle.
Regardless, I hope my M-B is as strong and reliable as I hope it to be. Although, I'm not too worried about it. When I buy a car, I NEVER go and read CR, it's pointless info to me. I go and do research through various, real-time sources Online, and get a real picture of who's happy, who's not, what can fail, what's "fail-proof", etc.
Hyundai is kicking butt right now. I'd love one as a "work-horse" driver. However, interior quality, even on the fancy popping-smoke Equus, isn't up to E-Class standards in fit and finish, attention to detail, and tactile quality, interior (or exterior) wise. Still lots of feathery, chintzy materials.
Still, I always say (same goes for the genesis), in a few years, when the things lose more than half their value, they will be amazing bang for the bucks.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 2,616
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Not in my area
[quote=storm10;4547773]
For example, I know as a fact, Lexus Dealerships are giving discounts to customers in order to buy 100% satisfaction surveys. Luckily, MB dealers did not go this path yet.
When I spent several months shopping luxury cars in S.C., N.C. and GA areas, NO Lexus dealer was offering more than 5% off MSRP. No matter how hard I negotiated. Got large discount from M-B, so got an E.
While CR reliability surveys do have limitations, they cover several years for each car/manufacutrer so overall is more valid than initial quality surveys. This is what is hurting European car makers and some American ones.
Also, reliability surveys are based on did it break, did it get fixed, etc., not are your expectations lower because you paid less for your car.
Regardless, Hyundai is moving up in reliability, lower operating costs, quality, features, etc. and this is a threat to many brands.
BTW, part of reason I got an M-B was it impresses the H out of my friends, neighbors and co-workers and a Hyundai would not.
For example, I know as a fact, Lexus Dealerships are giving discounts to customers in order to buy 100% satisfaction surveys. Luckily, MB dealers did not go this path yet.
When I spent several months shopping luxury cars in S.C., N.C. and GA areas, NO Lexus dealer was offering more than 5% off MSRP. No matter how hard I negotiated. Got large discount from M-B, so got an E.
While CR reliability surveys do have limitations, they cover several years for each car/manufacutrer so overall is more valid than initial quality surveys. This is what is hurting European car makers and some American ones.
Also, reliability surveys are based on did it break, did it get fixed, etc., not are your expectations lower because you paid less for your car.
Regardless, Hyundai is moving up in reliability, lower operating costs, quality, features, etc. and this is a threat to many brands.
BTW, part of reason I got an M-B was it impresses the H out of my friends, neighbors and co-workers and a Hyundai would not.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
M-B's looking good in J.D Powers right now. Especially keeping in mind that there are still some "Schremmp era" models that may be bogging it down some.
Either way, I don't get these charts, so I take them with a very fine grain of salt.
And BMW is sucking a$$ in these surveys, lol.
Either way, I don't get these charts, so I take them with a very fine grain of salt.
And BMW is sucking a$$ in these surveys, lol.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: Newport Beach, CA
2011 E350, 2008 GL550
To the question of buying a Hyundai, I've had the same reaction-- The Genesis is a great looking car (haven't driven it), but I just couldn't bring myself to drive one because of the (now out-dated) perception of Hyundai as a strictly economy brand. Hyundai has made amazing strides over the past several years and their design (at least aesthetically) is on par with anyone in the industry. But that final leap towards winning luxury buyers is a big one indeed.
I read that Hyundai is considering forming a luxury brand under the "Genesis" marque. I expect that this will happen and, if current trends continue, Genesis will present stiff competition for the existing luxury brands.
- Voy
I read that Hyundai is considering forming a luxury brand under the "Genesis" marque. I expect that this will happen and, if current trends continue, Genesis will present stiff competition for the existing luxury brands.
- Voy
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Tesla Model S P100D
I hope Mercedes makes reliability their #1 priority. If their attitude is that because of the three pointed star they can get away with poor reliability, they are in for the same rude awakening that the US car manufacturers received when customers migrated en mass to Japanese vehicles and lost about a generation of customers in the process. I am 35 and probably will never consider an American car because of perceived reliability issues because at the end of the day I want a dependable car that is not going to sit in the shop or strand me or my family. Allegiance to the three pointed star is not that much greater than the allegiance for buying American cars that was quite prevalent a while ago but at the end of the cars, reliability trumped all.
Fit and finish is everything. I am still trying to fix an issue with my E550s steering wheel airbag cover creaking and rattling on imperfect roads.
Fit and finish is everything. I am still trying to fix an issue with my E550s steering wheel airbag cover creaking and rattling on imperfect roads.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,747
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Mercedes of the 1970s and 1980s were built under the mantra "money and time are no object" approach to engineering. In the 1980s, Mercedes would be top on reliability in the German ADAC surveys that actually measured the number of breakdowns requiring assistance, and the W126 and W123 were first place every single year. Mercedes was synonymous with reliability.
Things have changed since then.
Things have changed since then.
