Hi All-

There was a thread that wrapped up a couple weeks ago re: E350 pricing and I'd like to share my recent experiences and get your opinions. I'm going to leave specific dealer names out this message, but if anyone is in the area (Orange County, CA) and wants details, shoot me a PM.

I've been researching a very specific E350 for awhile now- Sport, arctic white, pano roof, P1, wheel package, split-folding rear seats, spoiler kit (yes, with the roof spoiler-- there's a thread devoted to this specific topic!), and rear side-impact airbags.

Being in Southern California, I knew I would be able to shop at several dealers to find the best price. I decided to go through both the Costco car buying program and Truecar to see what I could get done. After returning from a trip last Sunday afternoon, I submitted information to Costco and Truecar and literally within minutes received several emails from dealers looking to get in touch and talk. Truecar sent back a 'Price Certificate' listing 3 dealers and the prices they would offer (in relation to invoice). The best of these was $2000 below invoice.

The dealer that Costco put me in touch with called me within 5 minutes. After some discussion with this dealer and others, it became clear that rear side-impact airbags are a very rare option on these cars. These are a requirement for me so this became a custom order situation.

So here's where things went with pricing:

- The Costco dealer said the Costco program offers $1000 below invoice. This was already beaten by the Truecar offer but on top of that, this dealer was siting an invoice price over $1000 higher than true invoice price (as corroborated by Truecar and Edmunds). This dealer fell out of the running when they tried to stick to this invoice number.

- Next I started communicating with the Truecar dealer offering $2k below invoice. After establishing that I definitely wanted the rear airbags and that this would be a custom order, he noted that they would honor the Truecar offer regardless of whether I bought a car from their lot or ordered one. There was a slight hiccup when he tried to quote $1500 below invoice, but after a quick clarification we were back to $2k below invoice. I told him I would come over that afternoon so we could get it done (this was last Monday, 2/28).

This is where it got a bit strange. I went over to the dealership around 2pm and spoke with the receptionist. She said my guy was with another client and asked that I wait a few minutes. I ended up waiting for about 40 minutes with no one even approaching me. By chance, I got a call from yet another dealer while waiting. I told the woman from the other dealership that I was about to order a car and the offer was $2k below invoice-- she said they could do better and asked if I was willing to drive up the freeway for 15 minutes and do it with them. I definitely was at that point, so I walked out and drove to the other dealership.

At this final dealership, we sat down and built the car and they offered to sell it for $2500 below invoice. They also quoted an invoice number $880 lower than the Truecar invoice, so I was close to $1400 lower than the price I was ready to agree to at the Truecar dealership. I put down the refundable deposit and the car will be here in 6-8 weeks.

To quickly close on the weirdness at the Truecar dealership-- I got an email from the guy the following morning and I let him know that while I was waiting, I got a call from another dealer so I left and ended up getting a better deal. He then accused me of being some sort of reseller (He claimed that he saw me waiting in the showroom and that I hugged one of his colleagues who later informed him that it is well-known that I buy and re-ship vehicles.) After clarifying that he had the wrong guy, he apologized, but this was a very strange interaction. This dealership dropped the ball in a big way and won't be getting business from anyone in my family, all of whom drive Mercedes.

So with my car ordered and what I felt like was a good price, I headed over to the dealership 5 minutes from my house. I have bought there before but recently had some tough dealings with them which is why I was shopping around. They said they would match any legitimate offer but when it came down to actually ordering the car from them, they would not discuss numbers with me until the car arrived. In order to buy from them at the price I wanted, they were effectively going to force me to leave the car on order at the other dealership and then leave them stuck with it when my neighborhood dealer matched their price. Because the dealer I ordered from had been so strightforward with me, I wasn't willing to do that to them and I left my neighborhood dealer without ordering the car from them. They've been calling and emailing, but I'm not responding.

So after all that, here are a couple questions:

- Does $2500 below invoice sound like a good price to you all? I'm not that hardcore a negotiator (in fact, I was going to go with $2k below invoice from the Truecar dealership before they fingered me as a re-seller). This is a number I'm happy with, but I'd like to hear others' opinions. I'm certainly not looking to spend more than I have to.

- What do you think of my neighborhood dealership not committing to match the $2.5k below invoice? To me it was a deal-breaker. I know it's just business, but I spend all day being a cold-hearted businessman in my own company-- because the dealership I ordered from treated me fairly and gave me a good number (I think), I'm not looking to stick them with the car I ordered. I admit I may be acting a bit naive on this issue in terms of how the car business works, but I'm feeling good about buying from the dealer that I ordered from.

Sorry for the length, but hopefully there is information in here that will be helpful to others and, again, any thoughts or opinions on the overall situation are appreciated.

Best,
Voy

 

You can probably get better deal, if you don't order and buy what's available in stock. Rear side air-bags are waste of money. It's not proven to add any safety elements. Most important are Curtain Air-bags (which are standard), they protect your head against hitting windows and keeping breaking glass outside of the car. They cover entire length from front to back. Don't forget any safety-related equipment is standard on any Benz model, regardless of the price, so there is a reason for rear side airbags to be optional.
Arctic White with Panorama roof seems to become very popular lately, so I'm sure you can find them in stock.

 

What's the actual price your at, with the discounts?

 

At current invoice, I'm at $51200+TT w/ the discounts.

Re: the rear airbags, I'm not looking to discuss their merits (that's a different thread). I want them and I'm getting them. But in terms of being able to get a better deal on a car that is in stock, you're probably right about that. I do expect to pay some sort of premium for ordering exactly what I want.

- Voy

 

It's my understanding that MSRP is 7% over invoice. So, at $2500 under MSRP, you're pretty much around $1K over invoice. That's not too bad, though you could probably do better if you really wanted to push it.

In my opinion the best deals should come on custom builds. The dealer bears essentially no inventory risk. They know the car is going right out the door the minute it comes in. Considering they also get holdbacks, possible dealer incentives, etc., an invoice deal is probably not a stretch.

 

Actually, I'm $2500 below invoice (not MSRP). I'm right around 12% below MSRP.

Interesting point on custom builds. I have no problem with the dealer making some money on this and it seems like I'm at a pretty good price point.

Thanks for your feedback,
Voy

 

encino quoted me 3k below invoice with a more off possibly if i came in that day. try them

 

Actually, dealers don't like to order unusual equippment, because if you change your mind - they can not force you to buy this vehicle. Also, they can not hold your deposit - if you decide to take it back. Then they get stuck with the car, which is hard to sell...
What is MSRP of the car you are ordering?

 

PMd u.

 

MSRP on this one is $57,675.

Your point above is why I felt I should stick with the dealer I ordered from. They were fair and straightforward with me and I don't want to leave them stuck with the car I ordered.

That being said, I don't think this particular car will be difficult to sell. The only thing special about it (besides looking awesome! ) is the rear side-impact airbags. For most, this wouldn't be a detractor. In fact, they could probably sell the car for more than I'm going to pay. But of course, a bird in the hand...

So here's the latest twist-- the neighborhood MBZ dealership left me a message today and they ordered the car anyway! So it looks like I'll have two cars to play off each other even though it wasn't my intent.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Please keep them coming.

- Voy

 

If MSRP of the car you ordered is $57,675 and they sell it to you for $51,200, it means they sell this car for exactly to the penny - $3,000 below invoice, because the invoice is $54,200. You can calculate the invoice of any Benz by yourself here: MERCEDES-BENZ INVOICE CALCULATOR . Just enter "0" in the gas guzzler tax, because E350 does not have it.
Make sure you have the selling price in the writing agreement, if they made a mistake - they still have to honor it, unless you have some other money involved in the deal like loyalty, USAA or conquest certificate.

 

Excellent, thank you Storm. Great information.

- Voy

 

If your neighborhood dealer is Fletcher Jones New Port Beach, don't trust them!!!
They have lied to me three times just to get me in to get me in there, even claiming that the car I wanted was in inventory. When I arrived the person I spoke to was not available, they pawned me off to an other salesman, and tried selling me something I car I didn't want for more money.
Finally I went to an other dealer that gave mi the car with the options I negotiated with Fletcher Jones, and also honored the price Fletcher Jones quoted me.

 

I am curious as to what defines "invoice" in this economy. I'm sure we can all agree that they aren't going to sell you a car for $3,000 less than what they actually paid for it. They wouldn't be in business long if they did that! So what do the dealers actually pay for these cars and what relevance does the "invoice price" actually have? If we can figure that out then we can drive a good bargain!

 

As I understand invoice I not necessarily what they end up paying for the car. They also make money on options, as well as rebates!

 

Yes, FJ can be very challenging to deal with. I have bought from them previously and usually have our newer cars (still under warranty) serviced there. In terms of service, convenience wins out because they are so close to my home, but buying is a different matter.

It's very difficult to get a straight answer from them on virtually any topic. This is particularly frustrating in today's world where any information can be immediately verified with a quick Google search on your smartphone. What I'm really looking for from the dealer is accurate information that goes beyond what I can find online. What I normally get from FJ is some B.S. geared towards selling me a car they've got on the lot.

On one hand, it really doesn't bother me-- these are car dealers and this is what they do. On the other hand, I can pick and choose who I want to buy from and their approach is doing nothing to win my business.

As I noted in my saga above, after refusing to match the offer I got from another dealer on the car I have on order, FJ went ahead and ordered the car anyway, presumably with the intention of making the best offer when the cars have arrived. Their offer will have to be pretty special to lure me away from the other dealer who was fair and straightforward with me.

Honestly, the deal-maker will probably be the 2000 ML320 that I may trade in on the deal. Whoever gives me the better number on that car will probably get the sale.

- Voy

 

"Invoice" - is the dollar amount, Dealer paid to the factory to buy this car - plain and simple!
When you buy something, you get an invoice (receipt).

So if you buy the car $3,000 below invoice, it means that dealer is willing to loose $3k on the deal. Like any other business, you loose somwhere and you win somewhere. There is a holdback on each car, but it's just to cover the cost of operations, like electricity, water, gasoline etc... However they can make some money on financing, extended warranty etc... to minimize losses. Plus, they can earn you as a customer, and consequently make money on your future service and parts needs, as well as future sales. Plus MBUSA rewards dealers with "volume bonuses", and better inventory allocate like SLS, AMG etc., where they can actually make a serious profit.

The main reason to loose money is a fierce competition. At least in California, where you have 55 MB dealerships. In LA area you can find 5-6 MB dealerships in the radius of 10-15 miles. So if you are not competitive - you are not going to sell...

 

Bookmark for future reference....

 

If I'm understanding your message correctly, FJ is willing to match the other dealership's offer and *might* even go lower, but they won't commit to any of this until the car has actually arrived? And you've had poor experiences with them in the past (dealer-related, not service-related)?

I'd go with the other dealership. It's unlikely you're going to lose much (if any) $ going with them, and I think honest and straightforward business practices should be encouraged (and are worth a little extra $). However, I'd also ask FJ how long it'll take for the car to come in. If you don't mind the wait, I'd try to pin FJ down on the price once the car is on the lot; if the figure is lower than the other dealership, give the other dealership a chance to match. And if they don't (and the difference isn't much), I'd still probably go with them anyway....

Would you mind PM'ing me the name of the other dealership (I'll be in the market for a car late this year/early next year)

 

Agreed that FJ may be able to get it faster. Their volume seems to trump other dealers around here and they're able to get the cars sooner than other dealers.

Since your timeline is late this year/early next, take a look at the latest threads regarding whether the new direct-injection engine will be in the 2012 E350 (more horsepower, significantly better fuel efficiency). I think I'm going to wait and bet that this new engine will indeed be in the 2012 model.

I'll PM you on the other stuff.

- Voy

 

Yeah, I was originally thinking of an e350 bluetec since I drive about 50 miles per day for work, but the run-flats and the (likely) upgrade to DI gas engines are making me re-think what I had originally planned. Add to that the fact that I just switched jobs (and took a big hit in income for the next 1-1.5 yrs), and I'm actually thinking the facelifted C-class doesn't look so bad....

Thanks for the PM.

Good luck w/ your purchase!