ImInPA

First of all, I have to agree that the w212 is one of the best looking vehicles on the road. But, with all due respect, the C class chassis is superb. The E is basically a modified C class chassis, and, quite frankly, I see nothing wrong with that. Some Rolls Royce models are simply modified BMW chassis. What matters is whether or not it is a good chassis. In MB's defense, to manage costs, they are very much into chassis sharing (like everyone else). The E's chassis has no apologies to make to anyone. Period.

220S

I also think the E350 should have the Airmatic option for those who want a V6. And the E550 should have an ABC option for those who don't want a bigger S Class. I wanted ABC and the M156 motor (6.2 AMG) but I simply didn't want a car as big as the S63. I wanted a mid-size sedan and so the only option available was the E63 with Airmatic.

I also had a late build 2009 W211 E350 and although it was okay on the freeway and on smooth roads like the PCH, etc., it was really pretty poor on most roads. I don't mind the suspension in the C Class but I think it's because it's a lighter chassis and shorter wheelbase. The steel suspension as it's designed in the E Class chassis just doesn't seem to work.

Airmatic is definitely a way much better ride (even with the stiffer AMG version.) ABC is pretty amazing and keeps the car basically flat in the twisties. But the weight of the S Class is a bit too much to really feel that nimble....

K-A

I agree with the dampening comments. I also feel that the only aspect of this car that ever can be called "noisy" is the wheel chatter over rough roads. It makes its way into the cabin too harshly.

The W212 Sport has maybe the best ride I've ever experienced over good, and even decent roads, but over bad roads, it's a disaster, for what you'd expect.

And I agree with the comments about its looks! Second to none there to me right now.

K-A

I haven't driven a W204 in a while, so maybe I'm off, and being too critical to my car right now, as I'm used to it. But I kind of have assumed and felt the same thing. The W204 doesn't ride as smooth as the E, of course, but the chassis dynamics make more sense on that car. It feels/is lighter and smaller, and the bumps feel appropriate. On the E, it doesn't make as much sense. Superb on some roads, then it gets thrown off too easily on others.

I've heard the facelift W204 has enough of a better suspension tuning, that it makes the cars frame actually feel stiffer (which isn't the case, as M-B of course didn't touch the frame or chassis). Interesting to wonder whether the new suspension tuning brings it up to par with the W212's, or if it is something the W212 can also use to smooth things out.

BenzMan369

Thank you for your reply.

No argument. I totally agree with you. Since we are posting in the E Sedan forum, I wished to point out that I knew the coupe was not the same chassis as the sedan.

My quibble is not with the coupe riding on a C chassis. Rather, it's with MB's sport suspension package which, from reading this thread, apparently produces similar ride quality differences in the sedan (which I have not driven) as in the coupe.

BTW, have enjoyed reading many of your informative posts, along with those of other helpful regulars, while lurking in these forums before joining.

Al

ImInPA

Thank you for your kind comments. I think I love your term "quibbles". Speaking strictly for my E350 BlueTEC, it is so solid that I think "quibble" fits better than "problem". I learn a lot from many of the fine folks here. It is a very well done forum.

park423

KA - not to bust your ***** but I wonder if the E350 Sport suspension was softer/smoother over rough roads to your satisfaction, then you would have issue with the performance handling of car. Basically saying grass is always greener on the other side.

I will say that I loved the solid feel of my W204 C300 sport's chassis with the 18" wheels as I do believe the 18" wheels improve handling over the 17's. But I'm sure we are less critical on the C as we expect more from the E. I do believe the airmatic suspension would be the answer for you. I chose the E550 for 2 reasons, the engine and the airmatic (as probably everyother E550 buyer since those are basically the main differences between the 350 and 550) with the 2 being equally important. I also wish there was a sport+ setting as I feel my C300 was a more solid and better handling car but I guess that's what the E63 is for. I basically keep my setting on sport and then switch to comfort are particularly bad roads on my commute in LA. Also love the slightly lowered look with the sport setting.

I think the sweet spot E for daily driving would be the E350 Sport with the new 306HP engine with the airmatic suspension.

El Cid

For my own edification. The Coupe is based on the "C" Class, but the W212 Sedan is not, correct?
Glad to see CR has kinder things to say about "E" class now. Can I assume that the 2010 Sedan and 2011 Blue Tech have the same suspension?

ImInPA

Both the E coupe and sedan are based off the C class platform.

Wig

Agreed. I hope this combination will be available when my current lease ends.

K-A

The "E-Coupe" IS a C-Class with a different body-shell thrown over it, basically. Same exact dimensions, and exact interior "hard-points".

The W212 is a modified chassis that first appeared on the W204 C-Class. It's modified in size, and I'm sure they stiffened it up some to support the extra dimensions.

That could be true.

However, performance isn't high on my list of "wants" on this car. My main cares with a car like this are: Style, Safety, Comfort, and interior quality/design/comfort.

I have driven a non-Sport '04 W211 E320 and the thing was anything but intriguing or great to drive. Comfy yes, but it floated immensely (almost to the point of not feeling so safe), and was noticeably underpowered. The M272 E350 motor has a fine amount of power for me, and I do love the firm/float/tight mix that the Sport W212 has over good and decent roads, but if it just absorbed roughness better it could literally have the "worlds best ride" to me.

The Sport W212 still has the best comfort oriented ride in its Class, when comparing against other Sport models, but it being an M-B, it should go that extra mile and handle the harsher elements as well.

BenzE350

Totally agree.

And that is why I can't wait to get back into another BMW. The BMW's that I have owned in the past, including the E60, seem to have the perfect combination of sportiness with forgiving ride over rough roads. There is not a day that goes by that I don't wish I was still driving that car.

I am more disappointed in my 2011 E350 than any car I have ever owned in the past 30 years.

The ride is poor over anything less than smooth roads. The acceleration is anemic. The 268HP engine lags behind the competition. The fuel economy is subpar. At $56,775 MSRP I got crappy plastic (MB-Tek) seats, no heated steering wheel, and underperforming headlamps (no bi-xenon). The electronics including the NAV seems a generation behind in technology and useful features. You can't order anything close to an audiophile quality sound system. The trunk has no pass-thru for skis. The interior is ho-hum with a lot of average grade materials. And to top it off, reliability has been poor in my experience with ECU issues.

The only good news is that my 24 month lease expires in 18 months and I can order a proper MB or select from several other attractive automotive options.

K-A

Yikes, sucks to hear that.

If I remember correctly, you were never really taken back by the W212, or never really seemed interested in it (wanted an F10), but only bought it because of MBUSA's ridiculous incentives/price cuts, correct?

Tsk tsk.

I on the other hand am very happy with this car, and every time I park it next to an F10, or almost anything, I am assured by it. The HP isn't much of an issue with me, but it is kind of upsetting due to the fact that on other hand MPG's aren't through the roof. I found the E60 I used to drive to be MUCH harsher than the E, but maybe comparative on rough roads (can't get much worse than the E Sport, to be honest). I also found the F10 Sport to have a less soothing drive, as it bounced a bit more on regular roads, and had a less than refined stop-go relationship, due to the turbo lag and/or throttle response and/or transmission. On the other hand, the 535i motor has more pep and power when you push it (not so noticeable when you're just cruising), but it comes at a couple costs: Non-smooth normal City operation, and some reliability issues with that motor (unless they've fixed it).

The E is a calmer car and environment, but it f***'s everything up when the roads turn to crap.

ImInPA

It is a shame that the Luxury versions are seemingly so "rare". I would love to hear from you Sport owners that have had a chance to drive both. I really think that it has about a perfect combination of compliance and control. I regularly take exit ramps marked at 35 at 75+. No tire squeal (and I have the Run Flats), and , the car just seems to take a set and go. I wish the steering was a bit quicker (like on the sport model), but, even the steering is perfectly fine. The ride on good roads truly feels like a shorter wheelbase S....like it is literally riding on a cushion of air...no float and perfectly controlled. The suspension just seems to gobble up rough roads. Truly amazing to me. And, now that I have about 12K miles, it seems even better than when new. I am really loving this car.

hyperion667

loving mine too.......getting ready to hit 9K miles........almost time for A service....

BenzMan369

Yet another new thing I've learned in these forums! Thank you for that clarification.

Al

ngerstman

I don't agree with those 550 owners who say that the airmatic suspension is the answer to those who don't like the suspension on their e350's. I have a 2011 e550 and really don't like the suspension on rough roads as well. It works perfectly fine on decent roads but is hard and even bottoms out easily when one hits a medium size pot hole, which I find truly annoying. I was so surprised by the mediocre performance of the suspension, in both the sport or comfort modes, that I complained to my dealership, not believing that there was not a problem. They checked it for me and said nothing was wrong. I took the car to a second dealership to get checked by someone else and they also said that there was no problem. My feeling is that there is not enough travel with the airmatic shocks(the front airmatics are both shock and spring, no front springs!!). My body actually stiffens up when I am approaching rough roads to gird for the impact of the suspension bottoming out and getting truly jarred to the bone. This is not what Mercedes suspensions have historically been all about. I always felt that they had the state of the art balance between good handling and the proper amount of road isolation. I even bought a set of 17 inch rims(my 550 is a sport) and to be quite honest, that didn't change the comfort of the ride that much(I'm still glad to have them to lesson the chance of blowouts, which I had a double one of earlier this year). I'm convinced that the lack of travel in the airmatic is responsible for many of the blowouts that people have had, as the suspension is not absorbing enough energy. I personally like the feel of the c class suspension and would prefer a version of that in my e550. The c suspension is more of a classic Mercedes suspension than my airmatic. Regards. Ned.

hyperion667

hi ned:

I agree man, it is a bumpy ride in both modes........it's interesting to hear about the the smaller tires even not making much difference.....I too am disappointed in this regard...
but it is crisp on smooth roads huh? 550!!!!

ngerstman

That would be me. I originally bought an e350 luxury last December only to have buyers remorse for not getting the e550. So I worked out a deal and after having the e350 for about three weeks got the e550. I really liked the e350, thought the drivetrain was great, did not think it was underpowered at all and generally liked the suspension but felt it could have been just a little firmer. It did feel like a smaller s class to me and actually felt like a much bigger car than the 2000 e320 that I had been driving. I got the e550 because I came to believe that the additional $8000 sticker differential was well worth it for the v8, leather seats and the supposedly better airmatic suspension. I love the v8 engine, the seat might be less comfortable than the e350 seats(although I like the driver dynamic seat option in my 550) and the airmatic is really bad on rough roads, worse IMO than a conventional spring/shock system. Given that I live in the NY metro area where the reality of everyday driving is crappy roads, I most likely would have been better off had I kept the e350 luxury. While that suspension may have been a little on the soft side, it was very comfortable and dealt much better in the real world in which I live. This is all very unfortunate and sad, since I never imagined that a $70,000 Mercedes would not ride like a Mercedes. Regards. Ned.

ngerstman

I was surprised that the 17's didn't make more of a difference in ride. It could be because I went from Conti's to Michelins which might have stiffer sidewalls. I generally like the e550, solid, well built, great engine and tranny, great ride on good to decent roads. But the failing of the suspension on mediocre roads is a major, major design flaw. Regards. Ned.

park423

Hasn't the gripe against Mercedes for years been the lack of road feel compared to BMW, that BMW was a driver's car - more performance and better handling. I've heard numerous BMW owners/wanna be owners say "don't you like to feel the road when driving" when they compare the Mercedes to BMW. Just seems like MB listened and is trying to satisfy the consumers desire to be like a BMW when it came to driving feel, i.e. more sport oriented. Ironically, it seems that the new 5 series has gotten softer and less road feel, go figure...

I do agree that comfort mode on airmatic is not a 180 compared to the sport mode and do wish for a greater difference between the settings but the roads in L.A. are decent most of the time, potholes get fixed fairly quickly and freeways are pretty smooth. That's we pay higher gas prices.

BenzE350

VERY disappointing to hear that the E550 airmatic is actually WORSE than the E350 conventional suspension on rough roads.

But on the plus side you have a significantly better engine than the anemic 268HP E350. Plus you don't have to sit on plastic seats, or suffer during night driving without the bi-xenon lights on the P1 E350 versions.

ImInPA

Interesting comments. I too initially felt the suspension on the Luxury should be a bit firmer. But, as I accumulated more and more miles over a variety of roads ranging from glass smooth to potholed and rutted, I have grown to appreciate the near perfect balance MB came up with for the luxury Agility Control suspension.

BenzE350

I think you are referring to 2 different things, although people do tend to use the terms interchangeably. Additionally "road feel" is extremely subjective.

Good "road feel" generally describes solid handling where the driver can get feedback from the tires, suspension and steering wheel. This is especially important as you approach the limits of the car. It does NOT mean that when you run over a coin on the road that you can tell whether it as a dime or a quarter.

A great suspension is extremely difficult thing to design - in part because every driver has a different set of expectations. Most cars feel great on smooth roads, however, a well designed suspension has the ability to competently handle rough patches of pavement without the need to A) "float" over the road, or B "jar" you until your fillings fall out of your teeth and your kidneys are sore.

If you have driven enough cars from Porches to Lexuses you generally get a feeling for what works for you.

Unfortunately the E350 is jarring over rough roads.

hyperion667

if this suspension isn't supporting 'us', then hopefully the engine or other parts of the car are actually benefiting from it.....