K-A

Prestige can be used in different ways, to different people.

For example, many people indeed DO buy anything with a Star on them, for "impress my neighbors" braggart reasons.

Also, prestige can be used in a sense of actual proven, and earned prestige. I personally like to be enthusiastic about a car with a rich history, and a cache *to me*. And when I say "cache", I don't mean "I'm rich, oh look at me I'm so cool" cache, as to me, a Mustang and Camaro have "Cache", as well as a Mercedes. A BMW and Lexus don't have as much cache as a Mercedes in my head, although, especially BMW, has a strong cache to most.

Whether people like to admit it or not, most buy Benzes/Bimmers/etc. for the mythical factors, as much as they do the direct factors (comfort, MPG, safety, reliability, etc.).

To me, I feel M-B does make the best product, as well as having the richest cache and history, so it all works together enough to be my top choice.

Also, the fact that M-B isn't some boutique brand, and IS a mass market, durable manufacturer across the world, is a great thing. For one, it's why they can afford to be a sole company (not owned), it's why they can afford to R&D these cars to ensure that they're making the best possible, and it's why they have earned the respect that Rolls Royce and Bentley haven't, WHILE keeping up in the "Cache" factor.

In the EU, Benzes and the like are very much Fleet/Utilitarian, BUT, they still command a price premium (aside from the very entry models), and through that constant promotion of being everywhere, and keeping a worldwide Premium namesake while still being a solid and accessible appliance (unlike RR, Bentley, etc.), they have very large enthusiast bases, who consider them as prestigious as we do.

Basically, it says a lot about a brand who IS a mass manufacturer, has cars all over the road, and makes Trucks, and Buses, etc., who also spans generations as the "Quintessential I've Made It Car". Far more impressive than a limited supplier like Rolls Royce, who is far more rare, but doesn't have much more name cache (actually less, IMO).

This is why so much is expected by M-B from me. They've gotten to where they are by being the ultimate. They're expected to make cars that will both sell extraordinarily, WHILE retaining a Premium factor. In other words, they're expected to be the brand that still to this day is the most common car name used and mentioned in Rap songs and other Pop Culture outlets, strived for, and used by Joe-Everymans as great appliances all the same.

K-A

And this I agree with. It wouldn't handle bad roads well for a $20K car to me. On the other hand, it handles good roads as well as I'd expect something of double its value+ to handle.

My Chevy Malibu absorbs rough roads much more smoothly (of course, its suspension is far floatier, much worse handling, much higher up, and has 16" wheels, and has a lot of interior rattles). The Benz should do all that it does better than my Malibu, AND STILL absorb rough roads better. Pretty ridiculous that it does not.

220S

fwiw, I was only responding to the post I quoted, not the thread content itself.

ImInPA said:

"I think that in the US, we see MB a bit differently than they are seen around the globe. Mercedes is not that much different than GM in the world market in that they make everything from off-road earth-moving equipment, to 18 wheelers, cars, vans, trucks, etc."

I think the view of a Mercedes in the US is a bit skewed. Like it's an exclusive niche product, etc.. I think it's developed that way over time and thru the media and marketing. They could have marketed the car solely as a well built car made to last, and charged a premium for that alone. But somewhere down the line it became a 'status' product.

That's all.

MBNUT1

It seems to me many high end products at some point cash in on their reputation and go downmarket to grow their volume and Mercedes has done this. Honestly I don't have a problem with that in theory. The more people who benefit from the best safety the better. Amortizing RD over greater volume allows for more in depth RD. Unfortunately for Mercedes they gave up some of their core principals in the process. The biggest being reliability. An example is that is their introduction of electronics minus the Japanese level of development to insure that they would be reliable.

ngerstman

As is the case with many of these threads, we have gone far afield from the original topic, that is the poor suspension of the sport and airmatic suspensions. I think that we all agree that Mercedes is a premium product that we have all paid up to buy. It is very well made with premium parts and has far more solidity than a Honda Accord, a competing product you could buy to provide the exact same utility. But they blew it on these suspensions. I would go so far as to say that my airmatic suspension is defective on delivery. I felt even worse today when I read a review of the Kia Optima in the New York Times today that quotes, "The news from behind the wheel is just as positive. A drive on rough roads demonstrates two things. One is the extremely solid structure that refuses to concede weakness with even a small quiver. The other is the suspensions ability to keep sharp impacts from jostling the occupants." I assumed that the Mercedes that I was buying would have a suspension that didn't jostle the occupants. That shouldn't be too much to ask for my $70,000. Unless my airmatic is defective despite what two different dealerships said, I can't imagine how anyone, even a sport enthusiast, would find these suspensions acceptable. Can we spell recall or class action? Regards. Ned.

BenzE350

I think the "view of a Mercedes in the US" is open to interpretation and depends on a variety of factors.


According to Forbes, America's best car brands are Toyota, Ford and Honda. Mercedes is 6th. Forbes looked at data from Consumer Reports that rated each brand based on safety, quality, value, performance, design/style, technology/innovation and environmental friendliness.

Lenn777

I found the suspension on the E350 to be rough also. I was kind of surprised being that it was a Mercedes but came to the realization that it was a car with a sport suspension. I guess you got to know what your buying and if you are willing to deal with the rough ride. I decided that I wanted a smoother ride and opted for the S550.

220S

Did you get the ABC optioned suspension? It's by far the best choice for best ride (otherwise it's the standard Airmatic and no different than the E Class aside from chassis differences.)

imho, MB suspensions in terms of best to worst are as follows (my personal preferences and in models that I've actually driven):

1) ABC (I wish it was an option in the E Class but I assume they don't want to dilute the S line) ABC is pretty amazing in keeping the car flat during hard cornering, too.

2) Airmatic (particularly the AMG and P030 versions; you can get smoothness or handling depending on the settings.)

3) the steel suspension in the C Class (and C63; apparently the 2012 C63 coupe now has some new design components which will make it closer to the BMW M3 in respect to handling.)

4) the suspensions in the Black Series (but not for comfort and only for handling. The SL65 Black is rock hard; my dealer still has a brand new 2009 sitting on the lot for a $100k off the sticker price....)

5) the steel suspension in the E Class (it seems to work much better in the C Class perhaps due to chassis differences.) Unfortunately the E350 'sport suspension' is not a true sport suspension nor is it a true comfort suspension. It doesn't seem to know what it is.....

Not sure about the SUV models since I've never driven any of them. Although Top Gear rated the G55 as the best all around performance SUV for both off road and city.

MCF

I have no point of reference, but would think the E luxury would sit nicely between 2 and 3 above. I have not heard any complaints regarding suspension from Luxury owners. Still prefer look of Sport over Luxury, but reading this thread continues to confirm my wife has the correct model.

K-A

They took a dip but they're the leading Luxury brand in terms of quality and reliability right now, and this is still with older "Schremmp Era" models dragging them down. The W212, W204, and W221 have all been very solid, and ahead of their competitors, not to mention tested endlessly and rigorously. Of course, these are complex cars, and are over-engineered in many ways, and are full of electronics, so things can't be perfect, and there will be some disastrous examples here and there.

Some things are also under-engineered of course (nobody's perfect I guess), like the stupid center console cover, who's spring loaded sliding mechanism is already starting to not work on my car, and the Sport suspension which doesn't make the car a good handler, instead just tries and make its driver feel "sporty" because it rides like crap over rough roads.

park423

Curious as to which car one thinks has the good sporty handling yet has the smooth ride that everyone feels is lacking in the E. Is there such a car or is this a case of a car trying to be a jack of all trades and master of none.

K-A

I think this nails it. And it applies to so many cars.

I wonder how the Airmatic S550 handles rough roads, now. I didn't pay enough attention during the times that I've driven them.

To me, it seems M-B's engineers decided that the E with Sport suspension should ride on smooth roads like a Luxury car (controlled and taut float, smooth and completely comfy and absorbing), then the "Sport" comes in when the car rides like hell over rough roads. However, this is basically saying that "feeling Sporty" means having your cranium rattled on rough roads, as the car isn't a Sports Car or an exceptional sport tuned handler.

If the car is gonna ride like hell over rough roads, then it should be a track-ready handler, and if it's gonna coddle you on smooth roads, then it shouldn't make you cringe when you hit a rough patch.

My personal wish is that they could make the car tight and as low as it sits with the Sport suspension (for aesthetic purposes), with the 18" wheels, and instill the qualities of the Luxury suspension during the drive.

golfster

I bet the typical owner doesn't realize just how disappointed they are with their cars until they visit an internet forum like this one.

K-A

Car Forums are here for 3 reasons for me:

1- Seek Information about the car.

2- Fanboy and praise the car endlessly, and talk about it endlessly (comparing and jabbing at the competition/other cars at times as well).

3- Complain about things that my particular and OCD self is not happy with.

Arrie

Are 16" rims available for the E?

Change from 18" to 16" rims would soften the ride quite a bit yet keep very good handling with high quality tires. Looks would be a bit worse but manageable.

What comes to Airmatic. A spring is a spring wether steel coil spring or an air bag. Air spring does not make the car any softer. It lowers the weight of suspension components, which increases natural frequency of the wheel that it can vibrate up and down. This means that the wheel keeps in contact with road better.

The other benefit from air spring is that it can be made to keep car at constant ride height and you can have different ride heights but air spring does not make the car ride any softer if it is tuned for the same handling as with steel springs.

220S

Although the Mercedes Airmatic DC has ADSII. Therefore you can change dampening on the fly, resulting in a softer ride. On the German website it's advertised as an 'air cushioning system' for "more comfort and softer ride."

BenzE350

IMO that would be the BMW 5 series (F10).

Just to be clear (and an important distinction for me) - I think MB struck a decent balance in the E series sporty handling versus luxury in regards to ride, however, when you encounter rough stretches of pavement, I feel the supsension becomes nervous, unsettling, twitchy, uncivilized and un-Mercedes-like.

ngerstman

If you've been reading my responses on this thread, you would know that it sucks!! I wouldn't be surprised if it it is worse than the e350 sport suspension. There are no coil springs with the airmatic and the air shocks become very hard and unforgiving on rough roads. When you hit a rut, a patched pothole, a medium pothole it is like the suspension doesn't have enough travel and just transmits the shock to the vehicle. I am not happy and if I had to do it over again might have bought something else. People should be rejoicing that the e550 will be available without the airmatic for 2012. Regards. Ned.

ngerstman

My guess is that 16 inch rims would not fit over the brakes, the 17 inch rims just clear. Regards. Ned.

ngerstman

A softer ride on gently rolling hills, not crappy New Jersey roads!!!!! Regards. Ned.

pwidjaja

Surprisingly, it is!!!

ngerstman

In other words, a sh-tty suspension, to state it in technical terms. Regards. Ned.

park423

Is the problem with the car or the road conditions in one's particular home area? If the roads in your NJ area were repaired or in not so bad condition, would have the same complaints? If the roads are so "crappy", wouldn't all cars have this problem, although I haven't driven every car in the E class segment, I doubt Lexus, BMW, Cadillac or Infiniti has the perfect combo of performance yet smooth ride over potholed roads. Plus, it's not MB's fault if ones local gov does not put road conditions a priority.

Also wondering if the 4matic rides differently from the RWD.

Tjdehya

You are spreading so many lies that you are starting to sound like Donald Trump.I would seriously like to know what car you were driving before the E, and what car you think is would glide over potholes.
If you dont have a car in mind then here is my suggestion.

No it doesnt but it handles different.

ngerstman

I need to see your birth certificate right now. My car history is there for all to see. I had a 2000 e320 4matic and still have a 2001 e55. I had a 1985 500sel before that. A good suspension should provide a comfortable, controlled ride under a wide variety of conditions. A sport suspension should have somewhat stiffer springs to keep the car more controlled in aggressive driving circumstances, a little less "bounce". The airmatic just outright fails to the job of a quality suspension when things get rough, as if it runs out of travel and starts to transmit the impacts through the frame of the car to the driver. I never suggested that the car should glide over potholes but it should most definitely not "thud" over medium road imperfections. I am 57 years old and have driven long enough to make a qualitative judgement regarding what a good suspension should and could do versus one that fails to deliver over a reasonable set of circumstances. I have been living on Northeast roads all of my life and "thudding" is not what a quality suspension should do. How much for the boat? Regards. Ned.