E-Class (W212) 2010 - 2016: E 350, E 550

2011 E550 Brake Rotor Quality?

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Old 06-29-2011, 11:28 PM
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All interesting points, which is precisely why I follow this sites postings, which has saved me a ton I repair costs. What I addressing are the problems associated with the MB components themselves, and/or dealerships inability to follow manufacturers recommended repair protocols. If MBUSA knows of the true cause of the brake squeal, they are keeping it quiet. Read the threads on this site, it is not isolated and it is not the result of tire dressing being accidently sprayed on the rotors.
Old 06-30-2011, 12:11 AM
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Cool, thanks for sharing that, I'm sure all that have thrown out a few 'pearls' feel good reading your post. Welcome to the board!
Old 06-30-2011, 12:14 AM
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Like I said, I have benefited a lot from the information posted on this site, hopefully someone will do the same from my mine!
Old 08-26-2011, 03:53 PM
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2011 E550 4matic +2004 E-500 4Matic Wagon
I just purchased a 2011 E550 4Matic with 8K miles on it from a Minneapolis MB dealer. I paid for a nudge more for the dealer to CPO the vehicle to gain the benefit of the extra warranty.
I too experienced the rotor issue outlined in this thread. Having owned a 2004 E500 4matic and a 2007 E550 RWD, I knew in the first 100 miles of driving the 2011 E550 that something was not right. The slight pulsing in the brake pedal in addition to the "frum, frum, frum" sound when braking could not be how a MB sedan is supposed to behave. The car does not pull when braking...yet.
I just returned from the dealer and after only a short test drive, the SA confirmed the rotor problem. The car never made into the repair area much less had a rim removed. His suspicion is that the car was not driven with enough frequency while on sale and that the rotors rusted slightly. I return to the same dealer next week to have all four rotors and pads replaced under full warranty. The SA said that he would have the lead mechanic also review the tires to see if they were negatively effected either by the "long" periods of sitting or by the braking done with the warped rotors. Assuming all goes well next week with install of the new rotors, pads and potentially tires (will these be covered under warranty in this instance?) I should be a happy camper. The experience as killed a bit of the buzz of driving a 2011 E550 home but with a few small exceptions, I have nothing but good experiences with MB.
This forum in general, and this thread in specific has been a great help. I hope to contribute insight to the community in the future as things pop up.
Old 08-26-2011, 04:31 PM
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I wonder if this is related to the slotted and drilled rotors on the Sport or the standard solid rotors on the Luxury E's. Or, is this unique only to E550s?
Old 08-26-2011, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ImInPA
I wonder if this is related to the slotted and drilled rotors on the Sport or the standard solid rotors on the Luxury E's. Or, is this unique only to E550s?
I'm the OP for this thread. Mine is an E550 Luxury, front rotors drilled only, rear rotors solid. BOTH (i.e., all four) were WAY out of runout spec; .004" and .005" vs. a spec of .002" Seems strange to have both kinds out of spec, and the car (after the first 22 factory and delivery miles) with only moderate braking and the problem presenting in the first miles I drove it.

IOW, it seems that a vendor problem would be present in the front only or rear only, since they are different parts --- at least on the same car. ?????????????
Old 08-26-2011, 05:01 PM
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what happened to RJC anyway?
Old 08-27-2011, 09:43 PM
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I think I read somewhere the 2012's are going to have a larger braking system on all 4 wheels.

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Old 08-28-2011, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 220S
Bed them......
Is this the 10 stops at 35 mph or something similar? I'd like to do it right.
Old 08-28-2011, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BudC
Is this the 10 stops at 35 mph or something similar? I'd like to do it right.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
Old 08-28-2011, 11:16 AM
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Thanks, I'd heard that if you do it at 60, it requires fewer stops than 10 but you can also do it from 35 MPH by doing 10 stops.

I still don't understand why failing to bed the brakes could result in warped rotors.
Old 08-28-2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BudC
I still don't understand why failing to bed the brakes could result in warped rotors.
I think 220S only mentioned bedding brakes to improve the rotor and pad's life and prevent potential squealing and roughness.

I have not experienced any issues with my brakes besides wishing that it offered better stopping power. I will be more vigilant on keeping an eye out before my warranty expires. It seems odd that its only affecting the E550s and not all E classes. I would imagine that the same assembly lines are used to build both models.

Are the brake systems on the E350 different? My E550 has what I thought were the standard 13.5 drilled fronts and 12.6 solid backs. The sports package added the red Mercedes branding on the 6-piston fixed front calipers.
Old 08-28-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bjweston
I think 220S only mentioned bedding brakes to improve the rotor and pad's life and prevent potential squealing and roughness.
Thanks, I need to wake up
Old 08-29-2011, 06:42 PM
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S212 2011 Wagon and Wife's 2014 C350 sedan.
A few weeks ago I started to notice pulsing both in the brake pedal and steering wheel. Thought I might have lost a wheel weight so I took it to Discount Tire and had them check the balance, No problem.
Set up an appointment with the dealer and after a road test and inspection the said I needed new rotors. Car had 11,650 miles on it and it was about nine months old.
Had to wait a day for the parts to be sent via next day air and now all is good.
Like many of us, I have owned quite a number if cars and this is the first time I have ever replaced rotors.
Like a few members have mentioned, I think the car is "under braked"
I wish there was a "Big Brake" option.
Old 08-29-2011, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SKYKING44
Like a few members have mentioned, I think the car is "under braked" I wish there was a "Big Brake" option.
I don't think it has to do with "under-braked." I had the problem almost immediately, and the car had never been braked hard.

I think it's a vendor problem, or if MB finishes their own rotors, they had a machine out of whack for a while.
Old 08-30-2011, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dr k
I have an '11 E550 with 17k miles on it. I have had a steering wheel wobble when breaking. Started a while ago but is getting worse. Took it to the dealer last week and, since I had not purchased my car there, they said they could do nothing since brakes and rotors are warrantied for 12k miles. They do say my front rotors and not properly aligned and causing the wobble. They said I should call dealer where I bought my car and complain and maybe they'd give me a discount off of the $660 for new rotors and brakes. Nothing wrong with the brake pads so I don't want to pay anything for this. Dissappointing for a 1 year old car of this price. Love the car otherwise - very happy with the engine.
Same Problem here, I guess I better head in for service.
Old 09-03-2011, 12:06 AM
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Got new brakes today

Dealer replaced front brakes today at 7400 miles, claims rears are fine. Braking visibly better now, will see what happens after break in...
Old 09-07-2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fromthebeginnin
Same Problem here, I guess I better head in for service.
Went in today, they said there were some hot spots on the rotors, they wouldn't replace (15 months old, 12000 miles). I should have caught it earlier, I drive to 20k and replace at my cost I guess.
Old 09-08-2011, 12:46 PM
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Wow.....lots of misinformation on brakes here. First, brake rotors do NOT warp. They NEVER warp unless they are a cheap, thin non-vented rotor. The reason why your brakes pulsate, causing you to think that your rotors are warped is because of un-even pad deposits on the rotors.

This is usually cause by one of two things or possibly a combination of both. The first reason, and I bet this is the reason that is causing the problems on all f your E's, is not properly breaking in the pads and rotors when the are new. Mercedes cannot tell you to go break in your brakes when you get the car; simply because the process to do it would pose a major liability. When you get your car, you should do 4-6 repeated 60-5mph hard stops. Not hard enough to engage ABS, but enough to really get the brakes nice an hot. After that, drive the car for about 20 minutes to cool down the brakes. Now can you see why MB says no to do this? When you do not break in the brakes, you are not properly bedding the pads with the rotors. This is a major cause of accelerated pad wear, excessive dusting, and the big one, pulsation. The reason why you get the pulsation is because there is an uneven amount of pad on the rotor. The spots that have a good amount of pad material transferred to the rotor bit nice and hard, but the other areas do not. This causes your pulsation.

The second reason why you get pulsations is from making a very hard, very fast stop. The pads get very hot as do the rotors, and as soon as you come to a dead stop, some pad gets burnt onto the rotor. Now, every time your pads touch that part of the rotor when you are braking, you get a pulsation from the lack of friction in the particular spot.

So for those of you getting your brakes replaced under warranty, cool. Can't argue with free brakes after 9k of use. For those of you outside of your warranty, you can bed your pads and it should solve your issues. 4-6 60-5mph hard stops will solve your issues. Then drive around for 20 minutes, preferably at highway speeds to cool the rotors then you are done.

Moral of the story: Rotors DO NOT WARP! It's a myth!
Old 09-08-2011, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BudC
I still don't understand why failing to bed the brakes could result in warped rotors.
It is actually very hard to warp rotors. The most common issue is actually pad deposits on the rotors that mimic a warped rotor.

Often, just cleaning the brake rotors and rebedding the pads resolves the issue.
Old 09-08-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by B6JoeS4
Moral of the story: Rotors DO NOT WARP! It's a myth!
Not quite correct. Rotors do warp but it ain't easy to do and - like you said - generally not the problem.
Old 09-08-2011, 02:29 PM
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Here is an excerpt from an article written by Carrol Smith at Stoptech
Originally Posted by Stoptech - Carrol Smith
Myth # 1 – BRAKE JUDDER AND VIBRATION IS CAUSED BY DISCS THAT HAVE BEEN WARPED FROM EXESSIVE HEAT.


The term "warped brake disc" has been in common use in motor racing for decades. When a driver reports a vibration under hard braking, inexperienced crews, after checking for (and not finding) cracks often attribute the vibration to "warped discs". They then measure the disc thickness in various places, find significant variation and the diagnosis is cast in stone.
When disc brakes for high performance cars arrived on the scene we began to hear of "warped brake discs" on road going cars, with the same analyses and diagnoses. Typically, the discs are resurfaced to cure the problem and, equally typically, after a relatively short time the roughness or vibration comes back. Brake roughness has caused a significant number of cars to be bought back by their manufacturers under the "lemon laws". This has been going on for decades now - and, like most things that we have cast in stone, the diagnoses are wrong.
With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc. I have seen lots of cracked discs, (FIGURE 1) discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, (FIGURE 2) a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, (FIGURE 3) and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces - sometimes visible and more often not. (FIGURE 4)
In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.
Old 09-08-2011, 02:34 PM
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More info about brakes:
THE NATURE OF BRAKING FRICTION

Friction is the mechanism that converts dynamic energy into heat. Just as there are two sorts of friction between the tire and the road surface (mechanical gripping of road surface irregularities by the elastic tire compound and transient molecular adhesion between the rubber and the road in which rubber is transferred to the road surface), so there are two very different sorts of braking friction - abrasive friction and adherent friction. Abrasive friction involves the breaking of the crystalline bonds of both the pad material and the cast iron of the disc. The breaking of these bonds generates the heat of friction. In abrasive friction, the bonds between crystals of the pad material (and, to a lesser extent, the disc material) are permanently broken. The harder material wears the softer away (hopefully the disc wears the pad). Pads that function primarily by abrasion have a high wear rate and tend to fade at high temperatures. When these pads reach their effective temperature limit, they will transfer pad material onto the disc face in a random and uneven pattern. It is this "pick up" on the disc face that both causes the thickness variation measured by the technicians and the roughness or vibration under the brakes reported by the drivers.
With adherent friction, some of the pad material diffuses across the interface between the pad and the disc and forms a very thin, uniform layer of pad material on the surface of the disc. As the friction surfaces of both disc and pad then comprise basically the same material, material can now cross the interface in both directions and the bonds break and reform. In fact, with adherent friction between pad and disc, the bonds between pad material and the deposits on the disc are transient in nature - they are continually being broken and some of them are continually reforming.
There is no such thing as pure abrasive or pure adherent friction in braking. With many contemporary pad formulas, the pad material must be abrasive enough to keep the disc surface smooth and clean. As the material can cross the interface, the layer on the disc is constantly renewed and kept uniform - again until the temperature limit of the pad has been exceeded or if the pad and the disc have not been bedded-in completely or properly. In the latter case, if a uniform layer of pad material transferred onto the disc face has not been established during bedding or break-in, spot or uncontrolled transfer of the material can occur when operating at high temperatures. The organic and semi-metallic pads of the past were more abrasive than adherent and were severely temperature limited. All of the current generation of "metallic carbon", racing pads utilize mainly adherent technology as do many of the high end street car pads and they are temperature stable over a much higher range. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch and the ultra high temperature racing pads are ineffective at the low temperatures typically experienced in street use.
Therefore - there is no such thing as an ideal "all around" brake pad. The friction material that is quiet and functions well at relatively low temperatures around town will not stop the car that is driven hard. If you attempt to drive many cars hard with the OEM pads, you will experience pad fade, friction material transfer and fluid boiling - end of discussion. The true racing pad, used under normal conditions will be noisy and will not work well at low temperatures around town.
Ideally, in order to avoid either putting up with squealing brakes that will not stop the car well around town or with pad fade on the track or coming down the mountain at speed, we should change pads before indulging in vigorous automotive exercise. No one does. The question remains, what pads should be used in high performance street cars - relatively low temperature street pads or high temperature race pads? Strangely enough, in my opinion, the answer is a high performance street pad with good low temperature characteristics. The reason is simple: If we are driving really hard and begin to run into trouble, either with pad fade or boiling fluid (or both), the condition(s) comes on gradually enough to allow us to simply modify our driving style to compensate. On the other hand, should an emergency occur when the brakes are
cold, the high temperature pad is simply not going to stop the car. As an example, during the mid 1960s, those of us at Shelby American did not drive GT 350 or GT 500 Mustangs as company cars simply because they were equipped with Raybestos M-19 racing pads and none of our wives could push on the brake pedal hard enough to stop the car in normal driving.
Regardless of pad composition, if both disc and pad are not properly broken in, material transfer between the two materials can take place in a random fashion - resulting is uneven deposits and vibration under braking. Similarly, even if the brakes are properly broken, if, when they are very hot or following a single long stop from high speed, the brakes are kept applied after the vehicle comes to a complete stop it is possible to leave a telltale deposit behind that looks like the outline of a pad. This kind of deposit is called pad imprinting and looks like the pad was inked for printing like a stamp and then set on the disc face. It is possible to see the perfect outline of the pad on the disc. (FIGURE 5)
It gets worse. Cast iron is an alloy of iron and silicon in solution interspersed with particles of carbon. At elevated temperatures, inclusions of carbides begin to form in the matrix. In the case of the brake disk, any uneven deposits - standing proud of the disc surface - become hotter than the surrounding metal. Every time that the leading edge of one of the deposits rotates into contact with the pad, the local temperature increases. When this local temperature reaches around 1200 or 1300 degrees F. the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite (an iron carbide in which three atoms of iron combine with one atom of carbon). Cementite is very hard, very abrasive and is a poor heat sink. If severe use continues the system will enter a self-defeating spiral - the amount and depth of the cementite increases with increasing temperature and so does the brake roughness. Drat!
PREVENTION

There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.
In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7
to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded.
For a race pad, typically four 80mph to 5 and two 100mph to 5, depending on the pad, will also be necessary to raise the system temperatures during break-in to the range that the pad material was designed to operate at. Hence, the higher temperature material can establish its layer completely and uniformly on the disc surface.
Fortunately the procedure is also good for the discs and will relieve any residual thermal stresses left over from the casting process (all discs should be thermally stress relieved as one of the last manufacturing processes) and will transfer the smooth layer of pad material onto the disc. If possible, new discs should be bedded with used pads of the same compound that will be used going forward. Again, heat should be put into the system gradually - increasingly hard stops with cool off time in between. Part of the idea is to avoid prolonged contact between pad and disc. With abrasive pads (which should not be used on high performance cars) the disc can be considered bedded when the friction surfaces have attained an even blue color. With the carbon metallic type pads, bedding is complete when the friction surfaces of the disc are a consistent gray or black. In any case, the discoloration of a completely broken in disc will be complete and uniform.
Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up.
The driver can feel a 0.0004" deposit or TV on the disc. 0.001" is annoying. More than that becomes a real pain. When deposit are present, by having isolated regions that are proud of the surface and running much hotter than their neighbors, cementite inevitably forms and the local wear characteristics change which results in ever increasing TV and roughness.
Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry.
The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.
The only fix for extensive uneven deposits involves dismounting the discs and having them Blanchard ground - not expensive, but inconvenient at best. A newly ground disc will require the same sort of bedding in process as a new disc. The trouble with this procedure is that if the grinding does not remove all of the cementite inclusions, as the disc wears the hard cementite will stand proud of the relatively soft disc and the thermal spiral starts over again. Unfortunately, the cementite is invisible to the naked eye.
Taking time to properly bed your braking system pays big dividends but, as with most sins, a repeat of the behavior that caused the trouble will bring it right back.
Old 01-25-2012, 11:00 PM
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Took my 550 in for the A service today and asked the SM to check out the front brakes as they were pulsing badly at speed and I had read about a problem with the 550 front rotors warping. They checked it out and sure enough they were warped and required replacement of the rotors and pads. SM said he hadn't heard of / seen this problem before but didn't hesitate a second to take care of it. Glad MB is taking care of the problem.

A Service was $165 and complete detail including clay was $175.
Old 01-27-2012, 02:28 PM
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Have any coupes had this problem or all sedan related?

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