220S

Okay. Anyway, my head doesn't hurt anymore It kind of goes back to my post #18; we get lost in literal definitions when we are really dealing with specific API categories and definitions, etc.. Although the industry and mfgs don't make it any easier. And sometimes they aren't quite transparent about explaining it. Plus this misuse of the terminology does really come from way back when syn oil was relatively new on the market (pre-hydrocracker refining.) But nonetheless, this dino versus syn oil mindset still persists and esp on oil/car forums, etc..

I'd be happy with just having API classifications: e.g., 1,2,3,4, etc., on the label that all mfgs have to follow precisely. When mfgs start using marketing terms like Super Syn or Tri-Syn or Spectra Syn, it all gets misleading and opaque, imho.

wmoor004

I just hit 1k mile on my E and I getting my oil changed this weekend. I think I am going with Red Line. Good thread..

RNBRAD

The mindset will continue cause most people don't know that in reality dino and synthetic is actually synonomous more so than not. Who would ever think you could have synthetic crude oil. It's like an oxymoron, lol. Manufacturers don't help cause synthetic means superior and more money. Now they can purchase grp 3 and label it synthetic which saves them money and as we know they didn't drop the price any. So why use a real PAO synthetic when grp 3 will do. That's why you don't see true class 4's being produced much anymore.

hyperion667

you guys know more about oil then I know about pornography, lol

wmoor004

Now thats the comment of the day!!!!! hahahahaahahahahahaahahaaaa

hyperion667

I meant that in a good way......


they are throwing down some serious knowledge about some oil......
there are several people, that when they post: I read........

wmoor004

Indeed!

kingofire

One of the reasons why I don't use API standards is because it is substandard to the european ACEA system. I look for the oil to meet ACEA A5/B5 spec which is for long drain intervals and better yet the A3/B4 spec which is for the oil to withstand the highest abuse. If the oil has those two ratings, 10,000 mile oils drains would be a cinch for this oil.

chrisvr6

Thanks for your help! 0w40 year round, huh. Which filter do you use?

BudC

If you go with Red Line, will you change it yourself or have an Indie do it?

kingofire

Yes 0w40 year round for me. I use the Purolator Classic filter from Advanced Auto Parts which is the exact same rebranded OEM Mann filter for this car.

dariusf

Wow a lot of very interesting info, you guys sure know your oil

Question to you, I put on maybe 4k miles / year on the car. No towing, or desert, but a bunch of short trips in Chicago burbs. Mostly 40-50 speed zones. Now I change the oil once a year. Do you think I should just keep going by the 10k miles and ignore the time span, or perhaps increase that to 1.5 years or more?

I guess getting it tested at 1 year and using that as my bases for the decision would be best. Still wondering what you guy's think.

dariusf

To clarify some more I'm worried about water collecting in the oil as I have many short trips and the engine never gets a chance to warm up and evaporate this moisture. Maybe I should change it more often?

This is the case for both of our cars, the 03 CLK with 36k miles and the 2011 E with now 4k miles.

RNBRAD

I'm in the same boat as you. I don't worry so much about the time interval so much as I do the miles. I think it's been over a yr since I changed my oil last. I do know the oil will oxidize and degenerate over time when exposed to the elements, but not sure on the exact rate at which it does this. My show truck gets an oil change about once every 2 yrs but it only had like 300 miles on the oil. It looked like it was fresh out of the bottle.

kingofire

^^Brad if you don't change your oil 10,000 miles or 1 year which ever comes first according to the FSS MB can void your powertrain warranty!

dariusf

well my CLk is out of warranty by now so no issues there, as for the 2001 E, well I do not want to loose that there. Still from the purely technical point, whats the recommended interval in time? 1 year?

220S

All the boutique oils like Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple say that their oils should be changed out every year despite mileage. And so does Mobil 1. One big problem is condensation, like you mentioned. If you're doing short trips where the engine's not even getting hot enough to burn off the moisture, I'd definitely change it out. Maybe even 2x a year. An oil change isn't a lot of money if that's the concern. An inconvenience, maybe.

fwiw, here's from BTOG:
"Condensation and fuel contamination are issues. Normally, excess fuel boils out during driving along with moisture, but if the engine is not run long enough to get up to temperature and held there for a period of time, both fuel and water will become a problem. With frequent but short trips, oil should be changed more often than once a year. "

dariusf

Great, thanks a lot, that confirms what I was understanding. Yes the cost of the oil changes is definitely nothing comparing to a long running engine. Now if I could only find a place where I could get the Mobil 1 for less then $8.50 / quart or in the large jugs in Midwest... I also do the change myself so that sure saves on the cost. Its not as much as the cost for me but the satisfaction I get from doing it myself, well that and not getting raped by the dealer

CEB

Oh crap. Regardless of the forum, there are always the Royal Poopie and amSOIL fanbois.

Oil is very simple. All major car manufacturers spend lots of time and money determining the type of oil suitable for their cars. Those oils will carry the certification on the label. The use of a "non-certified" oil will cause the dealer to refuse warranty service on lubrication related failures.

RP and amSOIL are not certified by ANY manufacturers and it is unlikely that they meet any of the specs.

Europe has used 30k km (roughly 18k miles) or three year oil change intervals since the mid 90's.

Follow the car manufacturer's oil change intervals and the required approved fluids and you will not have a lubrication related issues. Using non-approved fluids is a crap shoot.

BudC

It's not the oil that wears out, it's the additives. Then there is the issue of paper filters deteriorating. That's why Mercedes recommended polyester fleece media in their filters back when they approved extended change intervals.

ghh429

don't forget about oil detergent eating seals. I am hearing rumors of some major OEMs and oil mfgs trying to keep a lid on that now... Also many of the OEM motors these days are just slapped together haphazardly - I'd change oil just to be safe every 3-5k miles if you plan to drive 150k miles on your car...

dariusf

Honestly I think it has more to do with the cost of certification not the quality of the oil. My experience is that a bigger company is much more likely to cut costs and in the end offer an inferior product just to save a few $. Smaller companies that have to compete with the much larger ones need to offer something of greater value other then we are 'exclusive' label.

Is this a fact? Does MB states 18k miles in the user manual for EU market? That would be very interesting. I need to check with family members in Europe.

All in all I have a very hard time beliving that modern syntactic oil including any additives degrade in a year with light use to a point where it has to be changed or it will have some major or even significant negative effect on the engine. Its like expiration on pain killers or vitamins etc, do you honestly think that on the expiration date the product stops working or is it more to do with 'sell them a replacement'?

CEB

Synthetic oils will degrade with time, but it takes much longer than 5 years.

Jeff M

Great read , plenty of easter eggs of info here, new understandings and as well, confirmation for the ones I have picked up along the way (always good to hear that!), from Popular Science first test on M1 to many since then, even before the internet. Some publications I get, that have had a heyday of recent with the ZDDP (start a new thread for this please, don’t make this one any longer!) confusion eluded one more easter egg I wanted to contribute to the base of knowledge here, this was in Engine Rebuilders Mag, they serve the trade of those that rebuilding motorcycles, passenger cars, to semi’s, NASCAR to Top Fuel to you name it, but more important is they get other experts to assist in their articles, the one I am bringing up here was a quote from a chemist from Conoco, that said what we knew but a bit more that I found very interesting! Condensation in an engine, no brainer, fuel dilution as well, especially with a cold engine/rich fuel mix, to me it seemed fuel would evaporate better than moisture, but I was wrong, he/Conoco chemist stated that fuel has many types of hydrocarbons (I knew that part at least) but not all evaporate the same, some heavier hydrocarbons take longer to evaporate out , and if not fully gone, will stay with the oil, adding to its dilution.

I too read it many times over that it’s the kind of mileage, condition of your engine, and time based as in 1 year for the M1 most of us use.

RNBRAD

Yes, 2 reasons you change oil, to replenish your additive package and dispose of the contiminants.